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  1. #1
    Senior Member Kensei's Avatar
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    Default Check out this new and interesting view on the N/S dichotonomy

    I finally found a site that actually makes sense of N/S instead of taking the exact terminology too literally. You've probably heard that Sensing is concrete thinking and iNtuition is abstract thinking, but it's never been explained more realistically than the admin on celebrity types. He thinks the problem is that Sensing is assiciated with blatant and shallow processing while iNtuition is connected with imagination, and that's because of the way Jung termed his theories. He says that 90% of sensing types at first identify themselves as intuitive until they go to a professional because most people consider themselves imaginative, and that alot of true intuitives don't refer to themselves as the term "intuitive". He thinks that sensing should actually be called inutuition because sensors observe the concrete environment and develop inferences and patterns based on that concrete information, and that inutuition is actually introspection because intuitives use their senses, but observe the mental abstract world of their mind, trusting that more than concrete info. I thought that was an intetesting way of looking at it, especially since this guy is a professional mbti typist and not just some uncertified teen running around on the internet. Tell me what you think of this, and also check out hus site, CelebrityTypes.com, you might be enlightened on the real theory and not just the stereotypes you got off of tumblr and other half witted sites.
    "Don't let a damned soul stomp on you for your age, but instead show them that you can be just as good as them in both morals and judgment"- 1 Timothy 4:12 in my own words that I can relate to.

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    On mbagg170's wall I mention imagination being independent of the cognitive functions.

    A lot of S/N fuss comes about because even though everyone acknowledges the biased-in-favor-of-N type descriptions, many people make some agenda anyway out of typing someone 'deep' an N or someone conservative or just different from themselves (believing themselves to typify it) an S. The offenses given and taken are in the value judgment behind it.

    But Jung characterized Ne as seeking out potential and possibilities in the concrete world. Extroversion is naturally more concrete in that its standard is functionally more empirical.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Kensei's Avatar
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    Exactly! You seem to know your jung, unlike 99% of other suckers on the internet that think that N is associated with creativity, intellect, deep thinking, or even the desire to use all of the above. The way I see sensing and inutition is that sensors trust concrete outside information more, but will eventually form an idea or inference depending on how smart they are. An intuitive seems to start with the inference from within their head, thus indicating why they should have been called introspectors, and then they eventually find out the cincrete information through exploration of that inference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    On mbagg170's wall I mention imagination being independent of the cognitive functions.

    A lot of S/N fuss comes about because even though everyone acknowledges the biased-in-favor-of-N type descriptions, many people make some agenda anyway out of typing someone 'deep' an N or someone conservative or just different from themselves (believing themselves to typify it) an S. The offenses given and taken are in the value judgment behind it.

    But Jung characterized Ne as seeking out potential and possibilities in the concrete world. Extroversion is naturally more concrete in that its standard is functionally more empirical.
    "Don't let a damned soul stomp on you for your age, but instead show them that you can be just as good as them in both morals and judgment"- 1 Timothy 4:12 in my own words that I can relate to.

    Please vote on my johari window at
    http://kevan.org/jh/kensei16
    I promise it will not take long.

  4. #4
    Senior Member reckful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kensei View Post
    I finally found a site that actually makes sense of N/S instead of taking the exact terminology too literally.
    Is there some reason you haven't linked us to the S/N page you're talking about?

  5. #5
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    I havent heard anyone say that sensing = concrete thinking. Instead Jung says that concrete thinking is thinking function that follows sensations and about sensation he says:
    Sensation, or sensing, is that psychological function which transmits a physical stimulus to perception.
    Neither have i heard that abstract thinking = intuition. Jung says that abstract thinking is thinking that works by taking away the irrelevant parts according to logical reasoning. Abut intuition he says:
    It is that psychological function which transmits perceptions in an unconscious way. Everything, whether outer or inner objects or their associations, Can be the object of this perception. Intuition has this peculiar quality: it is neither sensation, nor feeling, nor intellectual conclusion, although it may appear in any of these forms. Through intuition anyone content is presented as a complete whole, without our being able to explain or discover in what way this content has been arrived at Intuition is a kind of instinctive apprehension, irrespective of the nature of its contents. Like sensation (q.v.) it is an irrational (q.v.) perceptive function. Its contents, like those of sensation, have the character of being given, in contrast to the 'derived' or 'deduced' character of feeling and thinking contents. Intuitive cognition, therefore, possesses an intrinsic character of certainty and conviction which enabled Spinoza to uphold the 'scientia intuitiva' as the highest form of cognition.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  6. #6
    Senior Member Kensei's Avatar
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    No idea where exactly it was, but the whole site has completely scientific descriptions of mbti instead of the assuming and contradicting descriptions that are given on other sites. It also gives celebrities and their real types and not just what they are stereotyped to be by people online. Also I think their test is most accurate, as it dpes not associate intuition with coming up with ideas and sensing with using techniques that they've learned and not bothering to use their heads.
    Quote Originally Posted by reckful View Post
    Is there some reason you haven't linked us to the S/N page you're talking about?
    "Don't let a damned soul stomp on you for your age, but instead show them that you can be just as good as them in both morals and judgment"- 1 Timothy 4:12 in my own words that I can relate to.

    Please vote on my johari window at
    http://kevan.org/jh/kensei16
    I promise it will not take long.

  7. #7
    Senior Member reckful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kensei View Post
    No idea where exactly it was, but the whole site has completely scientific descriptions of mbti instead of the assuming and contradicting descriptions that are given on other sites. It also gives celebrities and their real types and not just what they are stereotyped to be by people online. Also I think their test is most accurate, as it dpes not associate intuition with coming up with ideas and sensing with using techniques that they've learned and not bothering to use their heads.
    Well, I looked and couldn't find it. Since you started this thread, I'd think you should consider the burden to be on you to find whatever page you're talking about again and then provide the rest of us with a link.

    Meanwhile, your contention that Celebrity Types has "completely scientific descriptions of mbti" is, not to put too fine a point on it, pretty silly.

    Just for starters, those folks are big on the Harold Grant function stack and accompanying "tandems," and as further discussed in this post, that bogus sub-branch of the MBTI — which is inconsistent with Jung, inconsistent with Myers, and has never been endorsed by the official MBTI folks — has virtually no "scientific" support at all.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Kensei's Avatar
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    If you can give me a description of N/S that doesn't sound contradictory in my personality, seems possible for individuals and not just what everyone does, and doesn't make N's seem smarter and less shallow, then I will reconsider my beliefs.
    Quote Originally Posted by reckful View Post
    Well, I looked and couldn't find it. Since you started this thread, I'd think you should consider the burden to be on you to find whatever page you're talking about again and then provide the rest of us with a link.

    Meanwhile, your contention that Celebrity Types has "completely scientific descriptions of mbti" is, not to put too fine a point on it, pretty silly.

    Just for starters, those folks are big on the Harold Grant function stack and accompanying "tandems," and as further discussed in this post, that bogus sub-branch of the MBTI — which is inconsistent with Jung, inconsistent with Myers, and has never been endorsed by the official MBTI folks — has virtually no "scientific" support at all.
    "Don't let a damned soul stomp on you for your age, but instead show them that you can be just as good as them in both morals and judgment"- 1 Timothy 4:12 in my own words that I can relate to.

    Please vote on my johari window at
    http://kevan.org/jh/kensei16
    I promise it will not take long.

  9. #9
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    I find one of the easiest ways to sort out between N and S is to compare your own two S and N functions. See how the operate and differ. Unfortunately, this requires the individual to know their type and be able to tell what things fall under the perceiving access. Either way if it can be done, it's pretty reliable.

  10. #10
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kensei View Post
    If you can give me a description of N/S that doesn't sound contradictory in my personality.
    What contradictions do you see in these original descriptions:

    "Sensation, or sensing, is that psychological function which transmits a physical stimulus to perception."

    [Intuition]"It is that psychological function which transmits perceptions in an unconscious way. Everything, whether outer or inner objects or their associations, Can be the object of this perception. Intuition has this peculiar quality: it is neither sensation, nor feeling, nor intellectual conclusion, although it may appear in any of these forms. Through intuition anyone content is presented as a complete whole, without our being able to explain or discover in what way this content has been arrived at Intuition is a kind of instinctive apprehension, irrespective of the nature of its contents. Like sensation (q.v.) it is an irrational (q.v.) perceptive function. Its contents, like those of sensation, have the character of being given, in contrast to the 'derived' or 'deduced' character of feeling and thinking contents. Intuitive cognition, therefore, possesses an intrinsic character of certainty and conviction which enabled Spinoza to uphold the 'scientia intuitiva' as the highest form of cognition."

    S types orients his psyche based on S function more than N and N orients his psyche based on N function more.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

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