Ode to Processes: Preceiving--Se

[Ene]

The following passage is written in present tense though it took place several hours ago....maybe I will do this with other functions. Maybe some of you will share your Se experiences, a snapshot of a moment.

.............................

It's 2 pm. I'm on the school playground. Children holler, chatter & squeal. Swings squeak. Still, separated from all this noise, I hear birds in the trees of a small wooded area some fifty yards away. I grin. How can I hear those birds? How can I hear all these sounds at once, each one both blending and distinguished? It doesn't matter how. I just hear them at the same time I smell the wood chips, scattered a foot deep, all over the playground, mulch to make it safer for the children. Funny how you can smell mulch. I nonchalantly walk along the low retainer wall, keeping my balance. It's not stone. It's some weird thick, black rubber that is slick and easy to slide off of, but I rarely slip or slide. Along the short wall a shadow is cast and the moldy ground never seems to dry.

A warm wind blows against my skin, through my lace top. It's supposed to be 88 degrees. Maybe it is, but the wind disguises the temperature. Above, cotton ball clouds skate across a brilliant blue sky. Every so often one passes the sun, bringing wonderful shade. When the sun is unclothed, I squint. The bright glare of the very air is blinding. I keep smelling something that is sweet and delicious to my nose. I recognize the scent, locusts. I look toward the woodlands but do not see the white blossoms, but they're there. I know that smell.

I don't think about tomorrow right now, nor yesterday, but I think about how I'm thinking about the moment and everything in it. I am still watching my students. They're good today, playing in little huddles of shade, not on the slides, but under them, except for those who are swinging.

There is an orange toad, a tiny toad, by the fence. I put him on the other side, after I show it to the children. They all want to touch it. I don't want any of them to accidentally step on him, so I move him.

I laugh. Suddenly the words...cognitive functions...enter my mind and I realize that this is Se at its finest, or is it? Why is it that it's so controllable? But if its controllable why do people over indulge? Or is it that I, too, am over-indulgent, not in food or drink or spending or sex or drugs or gambling, but in the sights, sounds and smells around me everyday? Is it the source of my impetuous streak, my adventuresome nature? I love the natural world and never am I more at home than when I am among it. Yet, I realize that all I see is temporary and passing, a brief moment, in an endless cycle.

Thirty minutes have passed. Time flies when you're caught up in the moment or maybe it just becomes irrelevant, but at any rate, if I don't take the kids in, they'll miss their buses. I blow my whistle, signaling for them to line up at the gate.

As we trek back across the school grounds I fight the urge to go running down the steep hillside, across the fifty yards and into the woods. I'd like to explore those woods.

 

[Ene]

this is Se at its finest, or is it? Why is it that it's so controllable? But if its controllable why do people over indulge? Or is it that I, too, am over-indulgent, not in food or drink or spending or sex or drugs or gambling, but in the sights, sounds and smells around me everyday? Is it the source of my impetuous streak, my adventuresome nature? I love the natural world and never am I more at home than when I am among it....

I sit here at five a.m., awakened because I worked so physically hard yesterday, my day off, that my shoulders and head hurt too badly to sleep. I tried to cram too many accomplishments into one day.

It's funny how a little distance, in this case, a distance of a day, can change ones prespective. Or maybe it's the book that I'm reading about inferior functions! At any rate, I can now see how my above description of Se is what it looks like in an Ni Dom when Se is behaving like it's supposed to and staying in its proper place. I see how that a love of gardening, martial arts, hiking, being outdoors, etc., can all be expressions of Se as not only a dominant function, but as a inferior one, too. It's like a counter balance for an Ni dominant person's consistent daily grind. It keeps him or her from going off the deep end, so to speak, due to every day stressors or demands. That's why Ni doms can often be found doing activities (quite often-very well) that are typically dominated by their STP kinsmen.

So, to answer my own question, it is easy to control so long as it is used as an outlet, but when a person is under great stress, especially life-style stress, the escape mechanism takes over an entire area of a person's life and you get a 300 pound INTJ who has become a compulsive eater or an INFJ who has become obsessed with cleaning her closet. Maybe those are bad examples, but they are simply meant to represent the out-of-balance state.

 

[Ene]

I know it seems like I'm just rambling, but what I'm really attempting to do is share what's going on in my head with others who maybe have more experience or knowledge, in hopes that what I understand that is right can be validated, while any misconceptions that I hold may be cleared up.

Ha! Maybe I'm just thinking out loud or "at the keys," typing these ideas as they come to me. I know the processes can't be truly separated, that each must act in unison with others, BUT, I believe we can recognize them, much like one might single out the sound of violins in an orchestra. You don't stop hearing the entire orchestra, but you DO recognize and acknowledge the sound of the violins.

 

[uumlau]

I think it's ironic how you titled the thread "Preceiving", as if your unconscious mind already knew it was more Ni than Se ...

I think you're correct, that these are dom Ni musings on inferior Se, not Se itself. You're describing pleasant distractions, from the safety of your contemplative world, as you don't even get up and start interacting with any of it.

A secondary irony is that you wouldn't be this articulate about Se if you were dom Se. One of the thing that I've noticed about dance teachers, for example, is that the really good naturally graceful/athletic Se-dom/aux ones really aren't that good at explaining what they do. Some are even pathetically bad at it. They're just good at DOING what they do. Oh, and the FB posts they put up: those short, pithy quotes that sound oh so wise, but Ni doms like us read them and think, "You're 40 years old and you think THAT is insightful?! I've known that since I was 15." For an Se dom, it's the process of being contemplative that is a novelty.

And that's not to imply that dancing is Se-only or anything stupid like that. The best dance teachers I know these days are ENFPs, who have Se in "last place" by the Beebe model (to which I don't subscribe). While Ne makes them kind of easily distracted, they really think about what they're doing. And since they're passionate about dancing (with ENFP passion!), they really think about dancing and what works and what doesn't.

Also coming to mind is those really boring but almost funny interviews that you occasionally have of sports stars on TV, where the game has just ended and the interviewer goes up and asks, "What was going through your mind when [really cool thing] happened?" and the interviewee just stares blankly and talks about anything other than what was on his/her mind. And OMG if the question is, "What was your strategy for facing [the opposing team] today?" ...

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

forgive me, as this changes from 1st-person to 3rd a couple of times. I wanted to convey the raw experience of what my mind and body experience in this particular scenario. I have tried to edit this into a more cohesive account but time-constraints will keep me from refining it too greatly.

Some of my favorite beaches are those of Naples, Florida. On an average day, they tend to be much calmer than beaches on the Atlantic side of the peninsula. There are often very shallow sandbars lying anywhere from 50 to several hundred feet out from the shore--I love to swim out to them whenever I see one.

Usually this involves swimming through deeper water (you can tell because it is much darker and the colder water from the depths of the Gulf of Mexico mingles with the warmer beach water and tickles your belly and toes as your body glides across the surface). Swimming through the deeper water always terrifies you, resulting in an adrenaline rush which turns you into a much stronger, faster swimmer than you could ever be in the safety of a giant chlorinated bathtub. As you pass through these areas where the depth is a mystery, your brain imagines what might be beneath. Jellyfish, bottom feeders, perhaps a bull shark or two--perhaps various trinkets and treasures lost by beach-goers and swept into the ocean to slowly erode and return to nature? Your mind visualizes this while also allowing you to revel in the feeling of a billion molecules of water, salt, and other elements swirling around you and kissing your skin. You imagine how you might appear to eyes looking up from the bottom...would you appear graceful or would your clumsy motions instantly give you away as a land dweller? Then you wonder, would primitive aquatic organisms even care or are you projecting your own mind processes onto them?

Once you have braved the uncharted, the sand bar awaits. Sometimes the water is shallow enough that it might only reach your knees, other times it may be up to your neck--in this particular instance, it is about waist-level. Turning around to look at the beach for the first time, you realize how far you've come...when you were on the beach it was crowded and full of all the sights, sounds and smells one might associate with a populated beach--sunblock, sunlight glaring harshly as reflected from the sand, the excited screams and shouts of children overlapping the stoical musings of old men talking sports and politics and the general state of the world today. It all looks so far, yet so close when compared to the sea which seems to stretch infinitely in the opposite direction.

From here, you don't see individuals anymore, just a pattern of tiny bodies moving about on the white band of sand--it's like watching a carefully choreographed performance and you liken the beach to a stage of unwitting performers and yourself to a one-man audience (until you consider all of the things swimming nearby and realize you are not in the audience alone). Your eyes follow the beach both ways, as far as the horizon, and you see more beaches stretching endlessly, each one forming a long unbroken line of white dotted with almost microscopic specks of people. When you were standing there amongst the crowd, you had a certain level of controlled anxiety as you always do around throngs of people, but now you are calm and an almost zenlike state overtakes you...you get another shot of anxiety when you realize you will have to return to the beach, then home to shower (you hate showering after the beach because you like how the saltwater makes your skin and body feel), but you force yourself to soak up the present moment and forget about the impending trip home, and after that the return to your mundane routines after your vacation ends.

You wonder why people come to the beach only to ignore the natural beauty and talk about trivial matters--why not stay home and do this...also, how could people nap through this...this is, in some sense, where life first sprang out from the sea and spread out over the land like a vine over a trellis so many eons ago and the scientist inside you appreciates this as much as the explorer appreciates the journey just made to this new vantage point. You wonder what sort of life will inhabit the sea, sky and land in another million years. You wonder if other people are as fascinated and enthralled by the natural world and if they even stop to consider such topics.

You notice fins a few yards out, and although you panic for a nanosecond, you instantly recognize them by their bouncy movements as dolphins and panic is replaced by excitement. You want to swim over and play with them, but you're not sure if they would feel threatened, so you keep your distance. They are certainly aware of you and seem curious, albeit cautious. Then you remember reading an article or book, or maybe it was a nature show on PBS, where you learned that sharks will often swim very close to dolphins because both species hunt fish close to beaches (one from above, the other from below) and therefore have overlapping niches in this ecosystem, but for some reason you are not afraid. Then you think about how these are mammals, and you feel a kind of kinship to them...these are close cousins, not scaly beasts born from the depths. You wonder if this sense of confidence and your feelings of kinship with cetacean life is misplaced and naive, yet you can't help feeling calmer in their presence. You wonder if, on some basic level, dolphins are aware of their relation to humans, thus explaining their penchant for swimming up to people and ships and occasionally rescuing misfortunate swimmers.

Before turning to swim back, a part of you wants to continue out into the Gulf, but another more sensible part convinces you it is best to return to your own niche in a greater ecosystem. As alien as you might feel in your own world, you realize that out here you are, ironically, a true fish out of water.

 

[Poki]

Se is a shallow function in the sense of what an Introverted function thinks/processes. Se picks up and drops everything very quickly. Its about the here and now and to hold onto any of it is pulling it in. For example I was having jet ski issues a couple years ago. I don't have an adapter to hook a hose up to it and its water cooled so off to the lake I go with my jetski and tools. I get my jet ski in the water and take off about 50-100 feet from shore. This is where my Se kicks in heavily. I hop off the seat, pull of the seat and slide it over to the foot well on the opposite side I am on. So I am sitting on side of jet ski with feet in one wheel well and seat in other. I grab the throttle and floor it while still sitting on the wheel well. My secondary Se kicks in, it takes everything in while taking nothing in. The issue with jet ski is that it pulls hard and then bogs down, then pulls hard and then bogs down over and over. What my Se does is allow me to adjust my legs/arms/balance/etc. realtime so I can actually focus on what I am doing. I turn the wheel and and my body automatically senses every movement and adjusts, no thought required. Here I am going 30+ down a lake bouncing on the waves turning every once in awhile so I stay near the shore and don't hit anything all while messing with the wires with the other hand looking to see if something is loose.

Another example of Se at work and its something I am working very hard to stop and have been able to for the most part. When I get mad I have this need to get out of my head and I do it through Se. The dangerous part is that My Ti/Ni pulls even harder and I have to force myself even more into Se. What does this look like? A moron driving 130+ down the highway weaving and bobbing, exiting and drifting around corners and flooring it. Its me trying my hardest to force myself into the real world. Se is shallow so the overwhelming speed and shallow concentration required pulls me out of my head. I don't have a death wish though I don't care, I want out of my head. Se will pick up everything and anything in the moment, processing is split second, adjustments are split second, there is no plan there is no deep concentration. To the point where someone puts on left blinker to get in my lane so I switch into right lane and it actually begins to look like a dance with other cars. Like something is choreographed, but it isn't. Its just a bunch of split second adjustments, I don't care where that car went, the dance I am doing, or any of that. I have been told I am a VERY smooth driver no matter how fast or how slow I am driving. I use Se heavily to drive, its just a matter of taking everything in, yet taking nothing in.

I was playing a Wii game along time ago with my ESTP cousin. It was a visual "notice the difference" game. He could spot the difference before I even knew what I was looking at. I could still beat everyone else, but he would destroy me in that game. Se is not about holding onto what you see, but living by what you see. This is opposite of Si where you take the data in and process it to create a plan. With Se there is to much data to actually pull in and make a plan, it just does.


And for hose who worry about stupid fast drivers like me, I personally have never got in a wreck over 40MPH. Hit a guy at 40 once because the cowboys game just let out and I was lost and they had parts of road shut down, lights everywhere and it was dark and to top it off on a first date. Anyone that knows dallas and our mix masters will understand 114/I35 under construction with a cowboys game that just let out at night. Other then that all my wrecks have actually been under 10 MPH and I just tap the other person/thing because they are in my blind spot or they stopped to turn, went to turn and then stopped just as I took my eyes off them and looked to see when it was clear for me. Had foot off brake, hadn't even touched gas.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I don't really know where Se/Si stand in my mental wiring, but I find playing instruments to be a very satisfying way to use Se--I suppose there is some intuition involved, particularly when improvising and simply "knowing" which notes to play next, which notes will sound right, but it is also very much a process of acting in the present. I like how [MENTION=12103]Poki[/MENTION] phrased it:

it takes everything in while taking nothing in

I think this applies to how I am when I play music.

Working out at the gym is difficult because I always seem to be a bear afterwards, very testosterone-driven and edgy, at least according to others' observations. I don't like that facet of myself coming to the forefront.

That is why I prefer outdoor activities. There is something very unnatural about treadmills and exercise machines...it's all too mechanized for me. I like the raw experience of swimming in the ocean, walking through the woods or a park, climbing steep, rocky hills (that's what our east coast mountains are to my California-born wife), holding and manipulating a musical instrument to create music... These activities leave me feeling calm and at peace with the universe.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Se is a shallow function in the sense of what an Introverted function thinks/processes. Se picks up and drops everything very quickly. Its about the here and now and to hold onto any of it is pulling it in. For example I was having jet ski issues a couple years ago. I don't have an adapter to hook a hose up to it and its water cooled so off to the lake I go with my jetski and tools. I get my jet ski in the water and take off about 50-100 feet from shore. This is where my Se kicks in heavily. I hop off the seat, pull of the seat and slide it over to the foot well on the opposite side I am on. So I am sitting on side of jet ski with feet in one wheel well and seat in other. I grab the throttle and floor it while still sitting on the wheel well. My secondary Se kicks in, it takes everything in while taking nothing in. The issue with jet ski is that it pulls hard and then bogs down, then pulls hard and then bogs down over and over. What my Se does is allow me to adjust my legs/arms/balance/etc. realtime so I can actually focus on what I am doing. I turn the wheel and and my body automatically senses every movement and adjusts, no thought required. Here I am going 30+ down a lake bouncing on the waves turning every once in awhile so I stay near the shore and don't hit anything all while messing with the wires with the other hand looking to see if something is loose.

Another example of Se at work and its something I am working very hard to stop and have been able to for the most part. When I get mad I have this need to get out of my head and I do it through Se. The dangerous part is that My Ti/Ni pulls even harder and I have to force myself even more into Se. What does this look like? A moron driving 130+ down the highway weaving and bobbing, exiting and drifting around corners and flooring it. Its me trying my hardest to force myself into the real world. Se is shallow so the overwhelming speed and shallow concentration required pulls me out of my head. I don't have a death wish though I don't care, I want out of my head. Se will pick up everything and anything in the moment, processing is split second, adjustments are split second, there is no plan there is no deep concentration. To the point where someone puts on left blinker to get in my lane so I switch into right lane and it actually begins to look like a dance with other cars. Like something is choreographed, but it isn't. Its just a bunch of split second adjustments, I don't care where that car went, the dance I am doing, or any of that. I have been told I am a VERY smooth driver no matter how fast or how slow I am driving. I use Se heavily to drive, its just a matter of taking everything in, yet taking nothing in.

I was playing a Wii game along time ago with my ESTP cousin. It was a visual "notice the difference" game. He could spot the difference before I even knew what I was looking at. I could still beat everyone else, but he would destroy me in that game. Se is not about holding onto what you see, but living by what you see. This is opposite of Si where you take the data in and process it to create a plan. With Se there is to much data to actually pull in and make a plan, it just does.


And for hose who worry about stupid fast drivers like me, I personally have never got in a wreck over 40MPH. Hit a guy at 40 once because the cowboys game just let out and I was lost and they had parts of road shut down, lights everywhere and it was dark and to top it off on a first date. Anyone that knows dallas and our mix masters will understand 114/I35 under construction with a cowboys game that just let out at night. Other then that all my wrecks have actually been under 10 MPH and I just tap the other person/thing because they are in my blind spot or they stopped to turn, went to turn and then stopped just as I took my eyes off them and looked to see when it was clear for me. Had foot off brake, hadn't even touched gas.

You reminded me of an experience I'd completely forgotten. When I was about 18, an older cousin and her boyfriend paid for me to go jetskiing with them while I was vacationing in Florida. It is one of the most exciting things I've done in my life, I loved every second, and would do it again in a heartbeat.

I'd also like to race a dune buggy across waves of sand.

 

[Poki]

You reminded me of an experience I'd completely forgotten. When I was about 18, an older cousin and her boyfriend paid for me to go jetskiing with them while I was vacationing in Florida. It is one of the most exciting things I've done in my life, I loved every second, and would do it again in a heartbeat.

I'd also like to race a dune buggy across waves of sand.

Jet ski is one of my favorite past times, I am dying to get a new one. Its the speed, the control, everything that is Se for me. Only rule is stay away from others and shore. Other then that its wide open, skys the limit. I don't ever let off full throttle while riding. It has build up a really good 190+lb grip which allows me to take 360 degree turns at 40+MPH. Its not adrenaline for me, its pure bliss just flying through the water, cutting and swerving. Seeing how fast I can take a turn without turning it into a donut. Flying down the water at 60+ like I am riding a horse, legs as shock absorbers, with some bounces high enough to push the seat into you as you get airborne only to land and keep going without letting off throttle. To cut and weave creating waves that allow me to get the jet ski completely vertical in what is otherwise a calm lake. Someone once told me I ride a jet ski like its my bitch, controlling every move, every twist, every turn. Its not about the details of everything around me, but the interaction, the speed, the control, etc. Most people stop what they are doing to watch me ride. Full speed circles, sliding around handle bars to front of jet ski riding it backwards. Hopping in the water with one hand on the throttle dragging my body in the water as I do donuts at full throttle. Its just as fun with someone behind you as you have the added weight to create even bigger waves and jump the jetski out of the water vertically when the rest of the lake is just small ripples. Turning jetski almost completely sideways so I barely have the impeller in the water spinning in 360s to pull out of it with the front of your jet ski in a wheelie. This is all on a 3 seater that has a dry weight of 600lbs.

I have rode that thing so hard with someone behind me they wrapped there arms inside the back of my life jacket and when we were done his arms were bruised from the pressure of the life jacket on them.

 

[Poki]

 

[Poki]

I don't really know where Se/Si stand in my mental wiring, but I find playing instruments to be a very satisfying way to use Se--I suppose there is some intuition involved, particularly when improvising and simply "knowing" which notes to play next, which notes will sound right, but it is also very much a process of acting in the present. I like how [MENTION=12103]Poki[/MENTION] phrased it:



I think this applies to how I am when I play music.

Working out at the gym is difficult because I always seem to be a bear afterwards, very testosterone-driven and edgy, at least according to others' observations. I don't like that facet of myself coming to the forefront.

That is why I prefer outdoor activities. There is something very unnatural about treadmills and exercise machines...it's all too mechanized for me. I like the raw experience of swimming in the ocean, walking through the woods or a park, climbing steep, rocky hills (that's what our east coast mountains are to my California-born wife), holding and manipulating a musical instrument to create music... These activities leave me feeling calm and at peace with the universe.

For me a gym is purely pushing yourself as hard as you can physically, I don't pay attention to testosterone or anything, its about moving and lifting. I love pushing myself physically no matter what I do. I really don't have a plan. Sometimes I go heavy with low reps and other times I go lighter with high reps. Its about moving and pushing and becoming better then you were before. Not through analysis or anything, but through experience of doing. The more wore out at the end the better the workout.

My Ti/Ni comes into play during down time, its my research and analysis to understand what each thing does. Compare this to my ESTP cousin who relies heavily on his coach to tell him what to do. He gets more experience because he is in Se more, but I have more knowledge because I try to balance Ni/Se. I actually cant workout when I am angry/frustrated/etc. It screws me up as I am stuck in my head and lifting doesn't have the speed to pull me out. I love pushing myself physically in everything I do. My introverted makes it more of an individual thing though, and less of a social Se.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I don't ever let off full throttle while riding.

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I didn't either.

Someone once told me I ride a jet ski like its my bitch

that is classic

 

[Ene]

I plan to come back and comment on several things soon, but just wanted to say about jet skiis. I used to work at a marina. I was a dock hand. The first time I filled up a jet ski with fuel it belonged to this middle-aged lady with long brown hair. I was so concerned about not going over and putting the right amount in and not keeping her waiting that as soon as I filled it up, I just let it go. It didn't dawn on me that she wasn't on it yet! The woman jumped into the lake, yelling and swimming frantically after her jet ski. I stood there on the dock with the nozzle in my hand. I said, "Oops." Everybody was laughing and I was thinking, "I'm SO gonna get fired." But somehow I didn't. The boss of the marina wanted to be mad at me, but when he looked at me I just said something like, "I'm so sorry. I've never done this before and I thought she was ready." Before the summer was up though, I had gone from filling jet skiis to showing boats and giving tours. Anyway, carry on. I just thought you might appreciate one of my "moments."

 

[uumlau]

Now that's an "Ni moment"!

 

[á´…eparted]

Se is my tertiary function so I can access it somewhat easily. As I get older it becomes more frequently used as a protective tool, and a source of fun. My Se is always working, but if I want it to be at the forefront of my mind I have to make a conscious effort to do so, or be put in a situation that requires it to be at the front. HvZ (Humans Vs. Zombies) does this quite often and my Se goes into overdrive when I am playing

As for a present moment story, I am not so good at writing things like that. I can give it a shot though. This term I am taking a physical activity class called "Challenge Course", which essentially is a team building class (I ironically detest the team building and forced group dynamic bullshit) that eventually involves climbing up 30+ft telephone poles on a belay or safety system, going down ziplines, and crossing wires high off the ground. That aspect I love. I'll write about my experience this past Monday when I got to go up on the system

-----------

I couldn't wait to climb the pole. I love heights, they're exciting. I am a closet adrenaline junkie, and I'm quite sensitive to the effects of it so it can be quite the experience. I was already getting a bit shaky hooking myself into the belay system. Funny thing about heights. I am not afraid of them, and actually like them, but my body does not like them. I'll be mentally ready to do something, but my body will shake, and it's difficult to control motion. It's telling me "you should be scared". In a strange sort of way, I like that. It's all the adrenaline talking.

As I check in, I start to ascend the poll. My attention narrows tremendously. I cease to hear who is around me. I do not see the ground. I don't see the sky or the field out in front of me. All I see is the pole I am against. All I feel is the cool metal struts in my hands, the upward tension of my harness, and the small space on the struts under my shoes. Se focuses in on what is needed only. I am in the now, for only that moment. As I ascend I feel a knocking in the back of my conscious telling me I am too high off the ground and the physical rise of anxiety creeps forth. I still do not know what is going on around aside from my own private world, and the notion of my "goal"; get to the top.

Upon reaching the top and firmly grabbing the safety of the poll my vision widens. Once again I notice the ground, the sky, the people below me and the people on the system. I can "relax" and widen the bredth of what happened, what is now, and what is to come. After a short moment of taking it in, Se knocks and says it's time to go. I hook in the crab claw system (short tethers) into the high elements line, disconnect the belay, and step forth. I look out at me and take in what I see. I don't think though, I only observe. By looking forward noticing the boards held up by 4 strings each, each in a line to create a swaying path, I suddenly understand my motions. My focus narrows again and I am only able to notice my own world, with only a small channel open if someone tries to speak to me. By body takes over and it make me move forward almost as if I am not controlling it. With each sway, balance check, and pang of anxiety and adrenaline, I move in concert forth and against it. The goal? Don't fall. Se then imparts a challenge. It realizes this is too easy for me, and tells me to let go of the ropes. Go handless. Push your limits and make it known that you can master this. One step and I instincitvely grab on. It's a challenge that can not yet be met. Onward to the next.

I reach another element line and part of the way across Se knocks again "time to fall off". Intentionally fall off the line. Experience the fall, raise the adrenaline levels, and find the fun in the fear. It's not as easy as I assumed, and Se has been slowly poking at this more and more. Once in the middle I prepare to step off and, I can't. My body refuses to let me. Se yells "do it!" yet I can't. Not yet anyway. Fe reaches out for a moment and communicates with another person across the line asking for "permission" saying "are we allowed to intentionally fall off". With this nugget, Se pushes harder and I prepare to fall off. I look at the ground 30 feet below me, and all of my focus tunnels in very narrow. Sounds lose focus, all I fee is my hand on the support rope and the wire beneath my feet. Hesitation has room no more and I let my self fall back. In that short brief moment, I am connected to nothing. The primal fear of iminent death grips hold and I tense up completely. Yet, it's exciting. I instinctively know I will be ok. It's all too much and I let out a yelp. I'm told a number of people turned to look at me. I feel the sharp tug of the harness system, and I begin to cackle.

Hanging there, my attention broadens and I announce how fun it was! My friend remarks that I am crazy as I pull myself back up, body shaking but ready for much more. All I can say back is "yeah I am nuts, but I like it that way."

I can't wait for tomorrow so I can do it again, this time leaping off!

 

[Ene]

[MENTION=12103]Poki[/MENTION] when you get that new jet ski, let me fill'er up for ya. Seriously, reading your examples helped me to identify some "true" examples in my own life. I think that [MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION] is right in saying that my first post is really more of some Ni/Ti combo observation of the world around me. I'm thinking about my environment, but not really interacting with it. I think that's because as you say, Se is a shallow function, but sometimes, that is exactly what's needed.

Take knife-fighting for example, when I'm training I don't have time to think about my opponent or my environment, but I have to be aware of all their subtleties at the same time. All I have time to do is react and I have to be alert to sublet shifts in body movements, eye movements, etc. There's no time for thinking. Thinking in a knife fight will get you killed. Hence the training, everything needs to be muscle memory, reflex that responds to even the most discreet nuances. The only advantages I have are speed and agility and unless I'm able to take it all in and take nothing in at the same time, I can't do it. I think that even though I spend a lot of time in nature and I have always engaged in physical things [like tearing down a barn with a crowbar], I'm still usually the observer. Perhaps that is what drew me to martial arts. I don't "think" about what I'm doing. I become what I'm doing. Anyway, I am learning to appreciate Se and sometimes, I think that in the typology community that it doesn't get a fair shake. I am convinced that the very act of driving a car requires use of the function or just walking, for that matter, at least in an over-simplified example.

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

I plan to come back and comment on several things soon, but just wanted to say about jet skiis. I used to work at a marina. I was a dock hand. The first time I filled up a jet ski with fuel it belonged to this middle-aged lady with long brown hair. I was so concerned about not going over and putting the right amount in and not keeping her waiting that as soon as I filled it up, I just let it go. It didn't dawn on me that she wasn't on it yet! The woman jumped into the lake, yelling and swimming frantically after her jet ski. I stood there on the dock with the nozzle in my hand. I said, "Oops." Everybody was laughing and I was thinking, "I'm SO gonna get fired." But somehow I didn't. The boss of the marina wanted to be mad at me, but when he looked at me I just said something like, "I'm so sorry. I've never done this before and I thought she was ready." Before the summer was up though, I had gone from filling jet skiis to showing boats and giving tours. Anyway, carry on. I just thought you might appreciate one of my "moments."

Yikes. You must've felt like a real airhead when that happened.

I thought of something else more specific. I remember always being passed over in gym class when we had to choose teammates. I was almost always last or next-to-last chosen. I was the kind of kid who stood in the corner lost in his head the whole time. I hated team sports. Once in 8th or 9th grade gym we were playing basketball. I'd spent most of the class daydreaming (I really never could help it--unless we were playing a sport I enjoyed, I couldn't help ending up in my head daydreaming or just plain zoning out.) but toward the end of the game, the ball was tossed in my direction and without even thinking I caught it and tossed it in the net--I'm pretty sure it was flying at my head too. My classmates were all shocked because it was so out of character for me.

When they asked why I didn't always play like that, I just shrugged.

I don't know if that was really Se in action but I felt like it was somewhat related to this topic.

[MENTION=12103]Poki[/MENTION] when you get that new jet ski, let me fill'er up for ya. Seriously, reading your examples helped me to identify some "true" examples in my own life. I think that [MENTION=9310]uumlau[/MENTION] is right in saying that my first post is really more of some Ni/Ti combo observation of the world around me. I'm thinking about my environment, but not really interacting with it. I think that's because as you say, Se is a shallow function, but sometimes, that is exactly what's needed.

I suppose that by this same token there was much to my first post that didn't actually reflect Se, but I thought the physical act of merging with my environment somehow related. I suppose the argument could be made that the post in fact displayed Si because I was remembering sensory stimuli and details..

Take knife-fighting for example, when I'm training I don't have time to think about my opponent or my environment, but I have to be aware of all their subtleties at the same time. All I have time to do is react and I have to be alert to sublet shifts in body movements, eye movements, etc. There's no time for thinking. Thinking in a knife fight will get you killed. Hence the training, everything needs to be muscle memory, reflex that responds to even the most discreet nuances. The only advantages I have are speed and agility and unless I'm able to take it all in and take nothing in at the same time, I can't do it. I think that even though I spend a lot of time in nature and I have always engaged in physical things [like tearing down a barn with a crowbar], I'm still usually the observer. Perhaps that is what drew me to martial arts. I don't "think" about what I'm doing. I become what I'm doing. Anyway, I am learning to appreciate Se and sometimes, I think that in the typology community that it doesn't get a fair shake. I am convinced that the very act of driving a car requires use of the function or just walking, for that matter, at least in an over-simplified example.

That's how I approach swimming. No time to think about how I'm going to use my arms or legs or what I'll do if caught in the undertow. It's more about feeling the water and being open to small variations such as the water temperature and the pull of the current beneath and around me, knowing when not to fight against it, etc, learning to flow with the water--I more or less taught myself to swim at the age of 7 or 8...no adult had ever been able to teach me because I always freaked out when they pulled me to the deep end of the pool. I really had to just do it myself, feel myself suspended in the water with no bottom to touch and learn not to think as I was doing it, which would only lead me to panic

...I think I would enjoy surfing.

 

[uumlau]

I am convinced that the very act of driving a car requires use of the function or just walking, for that matter, at least in an over-simplified example.

Well, this is where function theory gets commonly misunderstood. It's still only a typology. There are no such things as "functions" in the human mind except as categories of patterns. You don't "use Se" to drive ... though that might explain why half of all drivers are below average .

Seriously, Se is just a way of describing a pattern that we see in people, and the placement of functions in various MBTI types helps understand how and when those patterns manifest for that type. Most people can sorta-kinda manifest all of these patterns in various cases, if you put them in the same situation. What indicates type is that they tend to manifest certain patterns almost all the time. So an Se dom, as Poki describes, just naturally processes visual stimuli extremely fast. Poki, with Se aux, can call on that ability, but it isn't always there for him and he has to focus to do it. An ENxJ will perhaps enjoy engaging in things that stimulate Se, but it's more of a hobby. We INxJs, with Se last are the two types that have a love/hate relationship with Se: it intrudes on our (Ni) thoughts, but it can also be a welcome release from those same thoughts.

The other types without Se in the top four don't have any particular relationship to the Se pattern. Not that they can't drive, or ride a jet ski, or whatever. But rather their psychic relationship to such things isn't going to be described by Se. In part I think it's described by Si, in that they gain "Se skills" via practicing them (which Si tends to love doing), but also I think it's just outside the typology at that point. Perhaps one might say that the function patterns describe inherent (and often unrealized) talents as opposed to skills, where the dominant function indicates which of these eight areas of talent happens to be one's own. Further, to extrapolate from this that "everyone has all eight functions" is to misconstrue what the typology is typing.

 

[Poki]

Well, this is where function theory gets commonly misunderstood. It's still only a typology. There are no such things as "functions" in the human mind except as categories of patterns. You don't "use Se" to drive ... though that might explain why half of all drivers are below average .

Seriously, Se is just a way of describing a pattern that we see in people, and the placement of functions in various MBTI types helps understand how and when those patterns manifest for that type. Most people can sorta-kinda manifest all of these patterns in various cases, if you put them in the same situation. What indicates type is that they tend to manifest certain patterns almost all the time. So an Se dom, as Poki describes, just naturally processes visual stimuli extremely fast. Poki, with Se aux, can call on that ability, but it isn't always there for him and he has to focus to do it. An ENxJ will perhaps enjoy engaging in things that stimulate Se, but it's more of a hobby. We INxJs, with Se last are the two types that have a love/hate relationship with Se: it intrudes on our (Ni) thoughts, but it can also be a welcome release from those same thoughts.

The other types without Se in the top four don't have any particular relationship to the Se pattern. Not that they can't drive, or ride a jet ski, or whatever. But rather their psychic relationship to such things isn't going to be described by Se. In part I think it's described by Si, in that they gain "Se skills" via practicing them (which Si tends to love doing), but also I think it's just outside the typology at that point. Perhaps one might say that the function patterns describe inherent (and often unrealized) talents as opposed to skills, where the dominant function indicates which of these eight areas of talent happens to be one's own. Further, to extrapolate from this that "everyone has all eight functions" is to misconstrue what the typology is typing.

My brother who is Si has to plan things out before they can really engage, so when things go wrong he gets all frustrated. Has to escape and replan. This is very different then me, I am a lets jump in without planning and just use experience to get better. Really not a lets take a step back and analyze, I run into the same brick wall over and over sometimes. Do I care, not really because it doesn't hurt or doesn't hurt that bad. Its not so much a "I am stupid", as much as an "I don't care enough about the consequences to step back and plan". The difference is I become very good at being in the moment and he becomes better at stepping back and analyzing.

I know with me personally somethings you cant just jump head first into, you have to get your feet wet and just learn as you go. So like for driving I start out slow and then just build up until I get better. It doesn't really involve much planning or much analysis of whats going on. Its just minor tweaks and adjustments that become nature as you do it. I only have to focus when I cant get out of my head, my TiNi has taken over to analyze and I want out, but I keep ending up back in my head and I have to pull myself out more. The way I have been trying to get out of this is to call people and talk to them until I can cool down and relax. It would be like someone trying to drink away their problems by escaping. I escaped into Se instead of drinking.

I don't have to focus, but it is a shift of focus. Doesn't take any extra work for pure Se, now to combine that with Fe takes a lot of focus and can be draining.

 

[Ene]

Yikes. You must've felt like a real airhead when that happened.

I did. I was quite embarrassed, but what could I do? The deed was done. After the first few days, I got better. I ended up working at the marina for three years. So, somewhere along the way, I must have gotten a few things right. I eventually quit because it got to interfering with my real job, which happened to be my career.

I used to get passed over in gym class, too. I was tiny. Nobody would pick me for anything. They would tell me that I was too small. I was also a little on the shy side, so I wasn't assertive.

Then one day I moved to a new school and since nobody knew me and I was all alone anyway, I went out for the track team. At home, I was a secret runner. I loved to run and I could run on and on without giving out or getting a stitch in my side. I did great and came in right behind the "star" of the team, a long lanky girl from Maine. So, eventually, the county-wide meet was held and who should be coaching the track team for my old school but my old P.E. teacher. The girl from Maine was injured on the track so I, the awkward tiny child, help carry my school to victory. The coach from my old school followed me onto the bus where I was waiting the trip back to my little school in the "sticks" and demanded to know why I had never run for him while I was there. I just shrugged. I could just always run. I think running was a good sport for me. I never like traditional team sports though. I liked running because it was solitary.