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ESTJ VS ENTJ

RandomINTP

Injustice Needs To stoP
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
388
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
I would say though that ESTJ's if having an intellectual bent would be better strategists since any game that involves strategy has a time limite and ESTJ's are better under pressure...ENTJ's are good theoretical and abstract thinkers and more strategic than some other mbti's...but I find that when it comes to chess...even ESTP's are better.

The irony of chess is that it is not correlated to IQ, at least in my real life experience, some of the worse students, slowest thinkers are the best chess players....

IMO the best chess players are INTJs. ENTJs would be just as good with the difference that they'd get impatient since they're alone with another person for a long period of time.
In this order, the best chess players are: (btw, everything marked with an x is obvious why it's there)
1. INTJ (the ultimate strategist)
2. ISTJ (not as good with coming up with strategies, but just as good if they learned strategies)
3. ENTJ (I explained this one)
4. INFJ (I think they'd be just as good as the INTJ with the difference that they get their feelings in the way of logic and forget to think)
5. ESTJ (x)
6. ISFJ (x)
7. ENFJ (x)
8. INTP (though J is the main advantage, against the ESFJ, it's 3 (INT_) vs 1 (___J) if you know what I mean)
9. ESFJ (read INTP)
10. ISTP (x)
11. ENTP (x)
12. INFP (x)
13. ESTP (x)
14. ISFP (x)
15. ENFP (they suck, but at least they have a decent chance with a good strategy if they stick to it)
16. ESFP (worst chess player ever)
 

BadOctopus

Suave y Fuerte
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
3,232
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
perhaps that's true but if he says it enough people will start to think it's true. which really is all you need
I like to think that the people of this forum aren't that dumb.
 

misfortuneteller

New member
Joined
Apr 4, 2015
Messages
578
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
My father is either one of these. I use to blindly think he was an ESTJ because i didn't want to associate being an intuitive with him not because i have anything against sensors but i felt so alone during most my life that i didn't want to think of him as being someone who i could actually relate to; since he was so scolding towards me and besides he was barely there so i could only go based on my assumptions but now that i've gotten to know him a whole lot better, i am realising that he does have an awful lot of conspiracy theories about what will happen in the future... and that's a Ni thing not to see that ESTJ's don't have foresight it's just what he does a lot, he goes off on hunches but at the same time he values objective logic above all, so he's definitely an ExTJ. I can expend on this in a bit if anyone is interested.
 

Kensei

New member
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
Messages
282
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
ESTJ's will be more rigid and fact based with their assertions and ENTJ's will be more original and will be likely to break more rules than ESTJ's despite their Te. ESTJ's are Si, which means they will be thinking about the past and the sensory details from the past and ENTJ's are Ni so they will be more future oriented and think of the big picture rather than the factual details. ENTJ's are iften potrayed by evil villians in the movies while ESTJ's potray the jugdes and cold hearted henchmen. ESTJ's are more suited for careers in medicine, law, mathematics, and administration while ENTJ's are more liable to be found in careers having to do with business, the sciences, teaching college, and the FBI. ENTJ's are in the intellectual temperment while ESTJ's are in the Guardian temperment, making ENTJ's more intellectual pursuit and knowledge oriented and ESTJ's more valuing of responsibility, loyalty, and truth. ENTJ's are also rumored to be more introverted than ESTJ's bevause of their constant genering of abstract thought and the ESTJ more focused on reality. ENTJ's are also rumored to be more arrogant and commanding than the ESTJ because of the combination of their valuing of originality and their Te, which makes them want to follow the rules, control others, or both. ESTJ's are more liable to keep a day planner than the ENTJ due to their realistic focus and the ENTJ's desire to be beyong the average person, thus driving them to keep their plans inside their head. Due to stereotype, ENTJ's are smarter than ESTJ's,but though their are more gifted N's than S's, it is merely a stereotype and ENTJ's will not always be mentally superior. ENTJ's are more likely to be into sci fi and fantasy while ESTJ's are more into movies based on historical events or true stories(preferable ones that aren't emotional) ENTJ's will likely spend their leisure time studying or improving their mental capabilities while ESTJ's will spend their leisure time doing something physical and practical, like cleaning or filling out their day planner. ESTJ's are much more common than ENTJ's being one of the most common types vs ENTJ's being one of the rarest. ESTJ's enjoy math, the languages, or any subject that teaches a skill in school while ENTJ's enjoy theoretical subjects like science and the arts. Though both types are organized, ESTJ's are likely more formal and and organized than ENTJ's due to their focus on details. Common ennegram types for ENTJ's are 3 , 8 and 5 while common types for ESTJ's are 3, and 6. ESTJ's will be more liable to help
a stranger than ENTJ's due to their more likely loyalty to the rules. ESTJ's do best in romantic relationships with ISTP's while ENTJ's do best witj INTP's. ENTJ's will least likely get along with a SP because of their impulsiveness and lack of abstract thinking and ESTJ's are least likely to get along with NF's due to their frustrating language and disregard for most rules. ENTJ's would prefer a world without clarity over a world without creativity, and ESTJ's prefer vice versa. ENTJ's will more likely be more paranoid than ESTJ's due to their guy instincts about people while ESTJ's will be more likely to kill a man for money due to their love for physical, concrete rewards.

There you have it, everything I van think of about the difference between ENTJ's and ESTJ's. Don't take most of this seriously though, unless you wanna stereotyoe, because most are just tendencies. Read between the lines and you might find some useful information.
 

GarrotTheThief

The Green Jolly Robin H.
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
1,648
MBTI Type
ENTJ
IMO the best chess players are INTJs. ENTJs would be just as good with the difference that they'd get impatient since they're alone with another person for a long period of time.
In this order, the best chess players are: (btw, everything marked with an x is obvious why it's there)
1. INTJ (the ultimate strategist)
2. ISTJ (not as good with coming up with strategies, but just as good if they learned strategies)
3. ENTJ (I explained this one)y
4. INFJ (I think they'd be just as good as the INTJ with the difference that they get their feelings in the way of logic and forget to think)
5. ESTJ (x)
6. ISFJ (x)
7. ENFJ (x)
8. INTP (though J is the main advantage, against the ESFJ, it's 3 (INT_) vs 1 (___J) if you know what I mean)
9. ESFJ (read INTP)
10. ISTP (x)
11. ENTP (x)
12. INFP (x)
13. ESTP (x)
14. ISFP (x)
15. ENFP (they suck, but at least they have a decent chance with a good strategy if they stick to it)
16. ESFP (worst chess player ever)

I would have to disagree. I know your answer is the popular and seemingly obvious one but when a strategy game is timed like star craft, chess, or dota I find that estj on the level of common rain supreme....nt's are slow slow slow and analyze every choice....intj more than entj but strategy is about details and timing and ne and si are better than se and NI for that hence Alexander the Great the greatest military leader to ever live since he essentially conquered a force 1000 times the size of his army was an entp surrounded by Estjs
 

RandomINTP

Injustice Needs To stoP
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
388
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
I would have to disagree. I know your answer is the popular and seemingly obvious one but when a strategy game is timed like star craft, chess, or dota I find that estj on the level of common rain supreme....nt's are slow slow slow and analyze every choice....intj more than entj but strategy is about details and timing and ne and si are better than se and NI for that hence Alexander the Great the greatest military leader to ever live since he essentially conquered a force 1000 times the size of his army was an entp surrounded by Estjs

ENTPs are imo the best spontaneous strategists. When it comes to spontaneousness, ESTJs would be destroyed by ENTPs.
 

KitchenFly

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Messages
876
I played sports Australian rules football and rugby with people of all different types and to be honest I don't believe that an ESTJ is better than a ENTJ and these types are inferior to an INTP because the INTP can memorise technical books about fitness and coaching, some people excel at competition sport,

I played completion sport in primary school and I could run circles around people fitness technical ability and an inner balance that draws upon presence and Instinctual drive that it grounded in cognitive awareness is what I think makes an outstanding sports person.

The people who excel in a remarkable was are people who have there key in there Chee, the X factor of being able to place themselves in the zone.

As an INFP I got the second highest grading ever awarded at the time with in the Southern Hemisphere for Jujitsu, now who would think an INFP could achieve that but is was because I was able to switch on the zone/ place my key in my Chee and switch on, go receptive make the law of three happen within.

There is more to it that four contrasting multiplicity's that can sequence with each other in many ways and many co combining ways.
 

prplchknz

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2007
Messages
34,397
MBTI Type
yupp
Nope. I'm not that dumb. I'm smart.

if you think you're smart you probably aren't. no one is as smart or as stupid as they think they are. you got to accept that everything is opposite

 

RandomINTP

Injustice Needs To stoP
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
388
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
if you think you're smart you probably aren't. no one is as smart or as stupid as they think they are. you got to accept that everything is opposite


I don't think I'm smart. I am smart.
 

Ivy

Strongly Ambivalent
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
23,989
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6
Intelligence and wisdom are different stats.
 

chubber

failed poetry slam career
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
4,413
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
ExTJ love organizing and order
Diffrence between Ni and Si is obviouse when it comes to time, ENTJs might need a time table, but ESTJs might need a summery of the ideas or whatsoever.
Also the techniques o an ENTJ uses is less concentrated on time, speech while the ESTJ pays more attention to it.
ENTJ is more strategy skills while the ESTJ have better diplomatic skills.

This is how I think of it.
And based on experience, ENTJs I've seen, they ruled to lead..
But ESTJs were bosses, doing their thing.

If that ESTJ have good diplomatic skills, it must be a very healthy ESTJ. I think [MENTION=20944]Cygnus[/MENTION] gives a good description of ESTJ and how I experience them.

Socionics Dichotomies:
ESTJ is Farsighted, ENTJ is Carefree.
Farsighted types are always looking ahead for new objectives to "conquer" and accomplish; Carefree types tend to take their time. Don't confuse this with Judicious/Decisive or Static/Dynamic.

Socionics Dichotomies:
ESTJ is Process, ENTJ is Results.
Process types give more credit to tested methods than the results they yield; Result types care more about the tangible results yielded than how these results were yielded.

:doh: something i run into everyday with an ESTJ. They need to be in an environment that doesn't change that often. Or perhaps someone that can speak their language.

Socionics Dichotomies:
ESTJ is Tactical, ENTJ is Strategic.
Tacticals tend to reuse the same tried methods they've used in the past regardless of goals; Strategics look at the goals first and let the methods used to achieve them vary.

Pretty much how I experience ESTJs. Shoots down anything that goes against what hasn't already been tried and tested (makes them look short sighted). I speculate that Ne's have the ability to get them to listen to something alternative.
 

Mademoiselle

noʎ ɟo ǝʇnɔ ʍoH
Joined
Sep 14, 2014
Messages
880
MBTI Type
-NTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Really? I thought that was more of an ESTJ thing and i've been seeing people say that ENTJ's are meaner than ESTJ's.

Perhaps the ESTJ liked to give orders, too. But the ENTJ actually fights for it, and either directly or indirectly affects their invironment not necessarily having the top rank, yet handles and deals with all the different subjects by directing them..

On the other hands we have the ESTJ who likes sitting on the crown, taking control and telling you what to do unlike the ENTJ who'd make you do what they want.
 

IZthe411

Carerra Lu
Joined
Jul 19, 2009
Messages
2,585
MBTI Type
INTJ
IMO the best chess players are INTJs. ENTJs would be just as good with the difference that they'd get impatient since they're alone with another person for a long period of time.
In this order, the best chess players are: (btw, everything marked with an x is obvious why it's there)
1. INTJ (the ultimate strategist)
2. ISTJ (not as good with coming up with strategies, but just as good if they learned strategies)
3. ENTJ (I explained this one)
4. INFJ (I think they'd be just as good as the INTJ with the difference that they get their feelings in the way of logic and forget to think)
5. ESTJ (x)
6. ISFJ (x)
7. ENFJ (x)
8. INTP (though J is the main advantage, against the ESFJ, it's 3 (INT_) vs 1 (___J) if you know what I mean)
9. ESFJ (read INTP)
10. ISTP (x)
11. ENTP (x)
12. INFP (x)
13. ESTP (x)
14. ISFP (x)
15. ENFP (they suck, but at least they have a decent chance with a good strategy if they stick to it)
16. ESFP (worst chess player ever)

It depends. I play a few SPs and their need to cut right to the chase can be disruptive to my set up, and sometimes they may even do damage. So I usually prepare to weather their storm and take them after they're wounded. Plus being so in-the-moment they fall into traps quite easily.
 

RandomINTP

Injustice Needs To stoP
Joined
Feb 19, 2015
Messages
388
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx
It depends. I play a few SPs and their need to cut right to the chase can be disruptive to my set up, and sometimes they may even do damage. So I usually prepare to weather their storm and take them after they're wounded. Plus being so in-the-moment they fall into traps quite easily.

Exactly.
Extroverts get bored
Sensors don't recognize the strategy
Feelers get carried away and forget to think
Percievers play spontaneously
 
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