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Are INTJs the most self-aware type?

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
9,801
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ENFP
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4w5
Heh don't sell yourself short. Ni+Fe is first. :) Ne on the other hand does an extremely poor job of making one self aware. I speak from personal experience.
You are TRIPPIN'!!!

Listen, I too, speak from personal experience, but I am telling you, from a self-aware, ENFP's standpoint, that Ne+Fi lead to and foster both self-awareness and empathy.

You, as an ENTP, who admittedly was/is not very self aware are essentially making bold and unfounded claims due to your ignorance.

I am very close friends with an ENTP and he is damn near absent of self-awareness, and this makes sense if you look at your cog. functions, Ne/Ti/Fe/Si.

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Ni + Fe is first?!?!?!?

On what basis are you founding that on?

Ne on the other hand does an extremely poor job of making one self aware. I speak from personal experience

No, Ne + Ti does a horrible job at making one self-aware.

Have you ever even read an ENFP profile?
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3,376
MBTI Type
ENTP
You are TRIPPIN'!!!

Listen, I too, speak from personal experience, but I am telling you, from a self-aware, ENFP's standpoint, that Ne+Fi lead to and foster both self-awareness and empathy.

You, as an ENTP, who admittedly was/is not very self aware are essentially making bold and unfounded claims due to your ignorance.

I am very close friends with an ENTP and he is damn near absent of self-awareness, and this makes sense if you look at your cog. functions, Ne/Ti/Fe/Si.

So you are saying that by changing Ne+Ti to Ne+Fi, then you change someone from the least self-aware type to the most self-aware type? That doesn't make much sense at all. How can changing an auxiliary function put two types at the opposite ends of the spectrum? :huh:


Ni + Fe is first?!?!?!?

On what basis are you founding that on?

Are you even reading my posts? I've said repeatedly that introverted perception is the most important factor in self-awareness.

Have you ever even read an ENFP profile?

Yep. When I was first trying to type myself ENFP was a type I had to consider. It describes me almost as well as ENTP. The two types are very similar in fact. :yes:
 

redacted

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2007
Messages
4,223
Heh don't sell yourself short. Ni+Fe is first. :) Ne on the other hand does an extremely poor job of making one self aware. I speak from personal experience.

my order (first three types) would probably be INFP>INFJ>ENFP

introverted intuition as a dominant wouldn't be as good as introverted feeling because it's not conscious. but it (Ni) does make connections and filter data to fit the internal standard, so much of the work is already done when Fe gets the data.

Fi doms, though, are driven by consciously judging whether data is good according to their own standard. Fi+Ne seems more direct than Ni+Fe. slightly.

then again, Fi's judge themselves on their own standard, so even if they're quite self aware, they aren't usually that aware of how others view them. if we defined self-awareness by seeing how close an individual's thoughts on themselves match what others think, INFJs would probably be 1st.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
Joined
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Messages
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So you are saying that by changing Ne+Ti to Ne+Fi, then you change someone from the least self-aware type to the most self-aware type? That doesn't make much sense at all. How can changing an auxiliary function put two types at the opposite ends of the spectrum? :huh:
I have no idea what the "least" self-aware type happens to be.

But I do know, that Ne+Fi is DRAMATICALLY different than Ne+Ti

Going with your "logic", INFPs with their Fi+Ne would be incredibly similar to INTPs with their Ti+ Ne.

But alas, they are not.

ENFPs and INFPs are not similar to their ENTP and INTP counterparts!!!!

The differences inherent to those who have primary or secondary feeling function as opposed to those who have thinking ones is vast.

Are you even reading my posts? I've said repeatedly that introverted perception is the most important factor in self-awareness.
You have never explained WHY!!!

Yep. When I was first trying to type myself ENFP was a type I had to consider. It describes me almost as well as ENTP. The two types are very similar in fact. :yes:
:doh:
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
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Messages
14,081
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Yin
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One
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sx/sp
I don't see why Introverted Perception has to be more vital to self awareness than Introverted Judgement does. All Si does is let you remember details and experiences. Ni just lets you imagine things.

Only Ti and Fi can let you have true/false and good/bad ideas of yourself. Ji is what let's you actually know what you believe, and what you are.(EDIT: Fe and Te actually let you know what you believe, too, but they are not concerned with the self.)
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
6,704
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ENFJ
Considering the way Ni works

I'm pretty sure an INTJ would have very little conscious knowledge of themselves (at least... in the same sense judging doms would), but would be good at figuring out and doing what keeps them happy.

As in, they may not be able to describe who they are, but with just a little observation, they're obviously acting in congruence to something, even though they're not entirely aware of it.
 

SillySapienne

`~~Philosoflying~~`
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ENFP
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4w5
my order (first three types) would probably be INFP>INFJ>ENFP

introverted intuition as a dominant wouldn't be as good as introverted feeling because it's not conscious. but it (Ni) does make connections and filter data to fit the internal standard, so much of the work is already done when Fe gets the data.

Fi doms, though, are driven by consciously judging whether data is good according to their own standard. Fi+Ne seems more direct than Ni+Fe. slightly.

then again, Fi's judge themselves on their own standard, so even if they're quite self aware, they aren't usually that aware of how others view them. if we defined self-awareness by seeing how close an individual's thoughts on themselves match what others think, INFJs would probably be 1st.
Honestly, I want more ENFPs to join this discussion, because I think I might rip my hair out.

A.) I am *very* much an ENFP.

B.) My self-awareness has been a salient feature of mine that has contributed to my empathic nature and has ultimately shaped my VALUES of others and human beings in general.

Why do you think ENFPs are able to truly *connect* with people, friends and strangers alike?!??!?

Those that don't understand this "phenomenon" attribute it to being some type of superficial mirroring mechanism, but it is not, rather it is due to our ability to take someone in, as they are, and then by scanning our catalog of "universal self", we find a part of our self that identifies with what they are saying/feeling and where they are coming from.

Only when one truly knows/understands/accepts themselves can they attempt to know and understand other people.
 

Perseus

New member
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
79
MBTI Type
INTP
I tried to avoid this thread. INTJ's (the Hawk) have got their talons going five a penny ... just does me in.

They are completely OK if they operate in the open sky, but when they start hovering they are dangerous. But if they engage their feeling, they turn into Pigeons.

Self aware: YES! Street-wise; NO!

Her father would emphasize you got to be more than street-wise but he practiced
what he preached from the heart.
A full-blooded Cherokee, he predicted to me the time and the place that
the trouble would start.
There's a babe in the arms of a woman in a rage
And a longtime golden-haired stripper onstage
 

JivinJeffJones

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Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
3,702
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INFP
Self aware: YES! Street-wise; NO!

Actually, I think that's backwards. All mature INTJs I know are incredibly streetwise. I think they care so much about becoming streetwise because it's just something they really aspire to. INTJs HATE feeling like they've been fooled and taken advantage of. HATE it. Being streetwise is primarily about being nobody's fool. Young INTJs may not be streetwise because they are INXX types which puts them at a disadvantage. I think it's something they are driven to work on though as a result of their type. Te helps a lot there.
 

The_Liquid_Laser

Glowy Goopy Goodness
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Messages
3,376
MBTI Type
ENTP
my order (first three types) would probably be INFP>INFJ>ENFP

introverted intuition as a dominant wouldn't be as good as introverted feeling because it's not conscious. but it (Ni) does make connections and filter data to fit the internal standard, so much of the work is already done when Fe gets the data.

Fi doms, though, are driven by consciously judging whether data is good according to their own standard. Fi+Ne seems more direct than Ni+Fe. slightly.

then again, Fi's judge themselves on their own standard, so even if they're quite self aware, they aren't usually that aware of how others view them. if we defined self-awareness by seeing how close an individual's thoughts on themselves match what others think, INFJs would probably be 1st.

Heh, I see what you are saying, and with an INFP it is usually hard to tell what they are thinking, but it is true from my perspective that the younger ones often don't seem to be very aware of what is happening to them or how their decisions will affect them. One example I have is a story told to me by an older INFP friend of mine. He said that when he was young he volunteered to join the army for 4 years, but after about 2-3 years he became a conscientious objector, and he finished his 4 four years that way. Now I understand that a lot of people are going to be surprised about how much they like the army when they join, but he went from one extreme to the other. I can't really imagine an INFJ making that kind of mistake. Instead I see an INFJ having a very accurate idea of whether they will like the army or not before they join.

This is just one example, but in general I observe INFP's are not aware of things that are happening to them. Instead they seem to be able to convince themselves of things that are not true. INFP's have this ability to build a false reality for themselves. Some choose to live there, and some don't. Either way though I wouldn't describe INFP's as the most self aware type overall. The IJ types as a whole are very aware of their strengths, weaknesses, desires, motivations and in general have a clear idea of what they want out of life. They may not have a good idea on how to accomplish their goals, but they know what they want.

Magic Poriferan said:
I don't see why Introverted Perception has to be more vital to self awareness than Introverted Judgement does. All Si does is let you remember details and experiences. Ni just lets you imagine things.

Only Ti and Fi can let you have true/false and good/bad ideas of yourself. Ji is what let's you actually know what you believe, and what you are.(EDIT: Fe and Te actually let you know what you believe, too, but they are not concerned with the self.)

I suppose it depends on if you subscribe to the idea that you are what you believe. I would say conscious beliefs are only one part of a person. Awareness of something in general does not come from judgement. It comes from perception. Judgement merely gives that awareness meaning (true/false or good/bad). EP types are the most aware of their environment. IJ types are the most aware of what they focus on, and this will include the self.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
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Is seeing your experiences, and seeing your imagination, really the same as seeing yourself?
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
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It wasn't a rhetorical question, I'm just saying your answer is too relative to be satisfying. Just because I'm asking an actual question doesn't remotely mean I have to like the answer I'm given. :D
 

Haphazard

Don't Judge Me!
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ENFJ
It wasn't a rhetorical question, I'm just saying your answer is too relative to be satisfying. Just because I'm asking an actual question doesn't remotely mean I have to like the answer I'm given. :D

It more depends on one's definition of self-awareness... it's such a vague term.

Most of what IJs do is perceive and respond. It doesn't really matter what they're perceiving, could be anything -- the stock market, the world outside a window, themselves -- and then they try to respond adequately. Because of this observation, they often learn how to manage themselves quite well. This could be considered awareness, as having an extensive knowledge of one's strengths, weaknesses, habits needs, wants, likes, dislikes, neuroses, etc.

IJs don't have the same sort of 'root' system that IPs have. Is this a prerequisite to self-awareness, as defined here?
 
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