Can a Person's MBTI Type Change as a Result of Severe Trauma?

[á´…eparted]

So you're saying that MBTI describes EVERYTHING there is to one's personality, there's nothing else?

I thought the general view was that MBTI is a part of personality, but that there are many other aspects to personality.

As a simple example, enneagram is personality, but enneagram is not MBTI. Therefore MBTI and personality do not equate.

Note that I am not saying whether I think MBTI type can change. It seems unlikely, but the whole theory seems somewhat unlikely too. So, idk.

I'm not saying that at all. MBTI really doesn't explain much about a person IMO, and I treat it as a toy mostly. I see it's utility as quite low and inaccurate most of the time. What I was equating that MBTI does represent parts of a persons personality, and that physical trauma to the brain can change personality aspects.

 

[blahblahbob]

I've been wondering recently, especially after having read Ender's Game and watched parts of Iron Man 3 about whether or not a person's MBTI type can change as a result of serious trauma, physical, mental, or emotional.

Barring actual braindamage, it seems neurologically unlikely that one's core personality will be changed in any short period of time. HOWEVER, non-physical trauma does induce major behavioral and thought changes and ultimately the brain can rewire itself - so over time I think it's possible that personality type may change, but unlikely. You're talking years of neurological conditioning - these aren't things that just get rewired overnight.

 

[Hitoshi-San]

I think emotional/mental trauma could totally change someone. Like, if you were in a situation for thirty years where you had to be quiet, dead serious, and plan your actions very carefully, you would adapt to those traits.

I've heard that some people who have been majorly depressed and took the MBTI test didn't get the same results as they did after they overcame their depression. I don't remember who it was, but someone who identifies as an ENFP thought they were an INTP.

 

[Animal]

Also, lol. LSD doesn't change who you are. It simply distorts your senses, at least as far as I know. Now same can't be as certain with others. Like those horrible ADHD meds. Turning me into a robot. You cannot. Maybe with some people, but not I.

Pretty much any memory forgetting thing will affect your personality, I think. Not sure, because if you are who you are, your lack of memory won't take that away.

I've been through severe trauma which affected my memory - an illness which leaves a portion of my life completely blank. I've also taken ADD meds at one point and its effects were not even on the same spectrum as LSD. LSD really can change people, it can even bring out schizophrenia that would otherwise be latent for someone's whole life. Studies have shown it affects the brain a lot more severely than anything else you're listing. Yet I still agree, it doesn't change who you are. Neither do those other things , both of which I've experienced.

 

[Thalassa]

I've been through severe trauma which affected my memory - an illness which leaves a portion of my life completely blank. I've also taken ADD meds at one point and its effects were not even on the same spectrum as LSD. LSD really can change people, it can even bring out schizophrenia that would otherwise be latent for someone's whole life. Studies have shown it affects the brain a lot more severely than anything else you're listing. Yet I still agree, it doesn't change who you are. Neither do those other things , both of which I've experienced.

ADHD meds would not make you an ENFP, if they made you anything. From what I understand they appear to exist to make EP types act more IJ to be easier to control in a classroom setting, and many traits of ADHD should first be treated by doing things like removing sugar and excess processed foods, and making sure the child gets exercise. However the oppositional defiant child who is almost impossible to control probably just needs his ass busted.

 

[Thalassa]

I'm not saying that at all. MBTI really doesn't explain much about a person IMO, and I treat it as a toy mostly. I see it's utility as quite low and inaccurate most of the time. What I was equating that MBTI does represent parts of a persons personality, and that physical trauma to the brain can change personality aspects.

I think it says a lot, when the person is typed correctly (or very closely, maybe off by one weaker letter). Lets say you have an ESTP and ISFJ who are both interested in the medical field, but perhaps the ESTP would make a stronger, quick acting, cool headed EMT, and the ISFJ an efficient, caring, organized nurse. Both could easily be interested in health care or helping others, but excel in different ways. They use MBTI tests to hire at some companies. That may be going a bit far, but it could potentially save the person from being miserable doing what other people told them to do (parents, etc) and save the company loss of productivity and rapid turn over.

Of course not everything can be explained by MBTI. I am actually a SLUEI sometimes in Big Five, bit I definitely wouldn't say I have Ti because I can be hard headed about opinions or grouchy or argumentative. A person with Fi doesn't have Fe, first of all (big thing glossed over by Keirsey imo) and a person with Se doesn't have Si so may still be more "open" in Big Five so think they are an N. Pe types are actually the most "open" to experience.

 

[Thalassa]

Barring actual braindamage, it seems neurologically unlikely that one's core personality will be changed in any short period of time. HOWEVER, non-physical trauma does induce major behavioral and thought changes and ultimately the brain can rewire itself - so over time I think it's possible that personality type may change, but unlikely. You're talking years of neurological conditioning - these aren't things that just get rewired overnight.

Yeah the plasticity of the brain can help improve memory or mental alertness or stave off dementia, but it also can lead to clinical depression or mood imbalances in people who experienced severe trauma due to rape or war or prolonged homelessness or abuse, or someone who had a series of events, like say death of loved one on top of already feeling lonely or having little support and other life changes, that person could fall into a chemical depression.

That does not affect personality type though. I mainly hear that happening from head trauma that leads to amnesia or coma, like the person literally wakes up with different preferences, interests, moods, etc.

 

[blahblahbob]

Yeah the plasticity of the brain can help improve memory or mental alertness or stave off dementia, but it also can lead to clinical depression or mood imbalances in people who experienced severe trauma due to rape or war or prolonged homelessness or abuse, or someone who had a series of events, like say death of loved one on top of already feeling lonely or having little support and other life changes, that person could fall into a chemical depression.

That does not affect personality type though. I mainly hear that happening from head trauma that leads to amnesia or coma, like the person literally wakes up with different preferences, interests, moods, etc.

I don't know... part of me feels I would have been ENFP if I hadn't have been raped and molested by my youth pastor for over a year as a pre-teen and then told by the other pastors I was going to go to hell for it when I discovered that the youth pastor wasn't telling me the truth about it being "sacred." But I'm really not sure.

I have a very ENFP side to me in some situations.

 

[Thalassa]

I don't know... part of me feels I would have been ENFP if I hadn't have been raped and molested by my youth pastor for over a year as a pre-teen and then told by the other pastors I was going to go to hell for it when I discovered that the youth pastor wasn't telling me the truth about it being "sacred." But I'm really not sure.

I have a very ENFP side to me in some situations.

Mmmm...yeah that's an extreme trauma at a young age, so it's possible, especially to drive you inward, not change the rest of your type. I am actually am ambivert in the context of traditional psychology (even normal psych does acknowledge introvert, ambivert and extrovert, and ambiverts are real, according to studies, and even Keirsey says E/I is least important).

Extroversion and introversion are on a scale, even on the big five I fall at practically neutral or average. I am very expressive but I need to be alone to recharge my batteries and like to control my personal environment. ..not through organization but having my own personal space and being able to do what I want to do on my own.

So you may be an ambivert, or you may be a depressed or anxious extrovert who guards themselves for self protection, and since extroverts need people to recharge, it could just make you feel more depressed.

 

[blahblahbob]

Mmmm...yeah that's an extreme trauma at a young age, so it's possible, especially to drive you inward, not change the rest of your type. I am actually am ambivert in the context of traditional psychology (even normal psych does acknowledge introvert, ambivert and extrovert, and ambiverts are real, according to studies, and even Keirsey says E/I is least important).

Extroversion and introversion are on a scale, even on the big five I fall at practically neutral or average. I am very expressive but I need to be alone to recharge my batteries and like to control my personal environment. ..not through organization but having my own personal space and being able to do what I want to do on my own.

So you may be an ambivert, or you may be a depressed or anxious extrovert who guards themselves for self protection, and since extroverts need people to recharge, it could just make you feel more depressed.

I don't know, I grew up homeschooled so I never really got a chance to understand how I am.

I'm majorly fucked up so I'm probably not a good example of an INFP. But I guess I probably always have fallen on the introvert side. I don't really know - I was like a happy kid then I found out that what the youth pastor had taught me to do with him was going to "send me to hell" and - bam - never been happy since and always been terrified of putting myself out there.

 

[Thalassa]

I don't know, I grew up homeschooled so I never really got a chance to understand how I am.

I'm majorly fucked up so I'm probably not a good example of an INFP. But I guess I probably always have fallen on the introvert side. I don't really know - I was like a happy kid then I found out that what the youth pastor had taught me to do with him was going to "send me to hell" and - bam - never been happy since and always been terrified of putting myself out there.

But it's not your fault. You were the victim. You were abused. You didn't do anything wrong

Besides hell is nothing more than separation from God and the truth is that it's not at all Biblical to tell people they are going to hell for any one vice or sin, because all fall short of the glory of God (yes the greedy, the gluttonous, the self righteous. ...there are many sins that in no way involve sex, pride - saying one is above or has no need for God - the blackest sin, murder and torture likely being next, and unrepentant hate.)

It is nothing more than cultural misogyny that would even say such things to you, it has nothing to do with God. The Bible is the Living Word because it's historic and yet constantly can be applied to now, especially if read in the attitude of acceptance of the Holy Spirit. The Bible is not stuck on something that happened when you were twelve.

It's actually blasphemous to say that there are unforgivable sins, as long as the sinner has a sincerely repententent heart.

And again, you didn't sin, your youth pastor did. Jesus promised you life more fully, not death or being trapped in the past. Fear is the opposite of faith.

 

[blahblahbob]

But it's not your fault. You were the victim. You were abused. You didn't do anything wrong

Besides hell is nothing more than separation from God and the truth is that it's not at all Biblical to tell people they are going to hell for any one vice or sin, because all fall short of the glory of God (yes the greedy, the gluttonous, the self righteous. ...there are many sins that in no way involve sex, pride - saying one is above or has no need for God - the blackest sin, murder and torture likely being next, and unrepentant hate.)

It is nothing more than cultural misogyny that would even say such things to you, it has nothing to do with God. The Bible is the Living Word because it's historic and yet constantly can be applied to now, especially if read in the attitude of acceptance of the Holy Spirit. The Bible is not stuck on something that happened when you were twelve.

It's actually blasphemous to say that there are unforgivable sins, as long as the sinner has a sincerely repententent heart.

And again, you didn't sin, your youth pastor did. Jesus promised you life more fully, not death or being trapped in the past. Fear is the opposite of faith.

Oh dear, I'm very atheist, and not because of the abuse - by intellectual choice. Also, I'm male, so misogyny had nothing to do with it.

I respect your beliefs regardless though.

 

[Thalassa]

Oh dear, I'm very atheist, and not because of the abuse - by intellectual choice. Also, I'm male, so misogyny had nothing to do with it.

I respect your beliefs regardless though.

Ok well then cultural homophobia. However, you said you have never been happy since some people told you that you were going to hell, that's a really long time to limit yourself over something you claim you don't believe in, so I naturally assumed you wrestled with some unfounded guilt or fear of hell.

I don't understand then why you are letting something you don't believe in define you, that doesn't make sense to me at all, why not just think, those assholes were wrong, I'll be ok?

At any rate, what those people said to you wasn't Biblical. Hell fire preachers are like the jihad of small town churches. Christian love: you're doing it wrong (like Islam being about peace and jihad being constantly preoccupied with terrorism).

 

[blahblahbob]

Ok well then cultural homophobia. However, you said you have never been happy since some people told you that you were going to hell, that's a really long time to limit yourself over something you claim you don't believe in, so I naturally assumed you wrestled with some unfounded guilt or fear of hell.

I don't understand then why you are letting something you don't believe in define you, that doesn't make sense to me at all, why not just think, those assholes were wrong, I'll be ok?

At any rate, what those people said to you wasn't Biblical. Hell fire preachers are like the jihad of small town churches. Christian love: you're doing it wrong (like Islam being about peace and jihad being constantly preoccupied with terrorism).

Yes, I was not atheist at the time. I regard four years of psychologically tormenting oneself for actions that were out of my control to be pretty psychologically damaging. It's a lot of self-loathing conditioning.

Quite simply, I don't think "I'll be ok" because I'm not going to be ok. Additionally, I eventually pushed the memories out of my conscious mind by not even thinking back at all for a long time. I didn't even remember my childhood at all until I was about 25, then it all rushed back to me like being hit by a freight train making everything that came thereafter - the years of crying and depression - make a great deal more sense. When I tried to go to authorities about it, I was immediately ganged up on by the church and threatened with death and a whole bunch of other really horrible stuff happened so things just got more compoundedly bad.

They weren't really hellfire preachers - they just wanted to make sure they could keep making money off their pedophile ring on the side. All told, from the other victims, about 24 boys were raped and molested over the period of a decade. Having been homeschooled, I never really had a conception of how illegal any of it was - I only envisioned it as sinful.

You're right they're jihadists though - they believe in "spiritual warfare" and driving and terrorizing "demon possessed" people out of the town and harassing them perpetually. It was an Assemblies of God church so they believe in all the "Thomas Muthee Witchhunting" dogma... Sad how evil people can become to others just by assimilating an ideology.

 

[Thalassa]

Yes, I was not atheist at the time. I regard four years of psychologically tormenting oneself for actions that were out of my control to be pretty psychologically damaging. It's a lot of self-loathing conditioning.

Quite simply, I don't think "I'll be ok" because I'm not going to be ok. Additionally, I eventually pushed the memories out of my conscious mind by not even thinking back at all for a long time. I didn't even remember my childhood at all until I was about 25, then it all rushed back to me like being hit by a freight train making everything that came thereafter - the years of crying and depression - make a great deal more sense. When I tried to go to authorities about it, I was immediately ganged up on by the church and threatened with death and a whole bunch of other really horrible stuff happened so things just got more compoundedly bad.

They weren't really hellfire preachers - they just wanted to make sure they could keep making money off their pedophile ring on the side. All told, from the other victims, about 24 boys were raped and molested over the period of a decade. Having been homeschooled, I never really had a conception of how illegal any of it was - I only envisioned it as sinful.

You're right they're jihadists though - they believe in "spiritual warfare" and driving and terrorizing "demon possessed" people out of the town and harassing them perpetually. It was an Assemblies of God church so they believe in all the "Thomas Muthee Witchhunting" dogma... Sad how evil people can become to others just by assimilating an ideology.

I'm sorry to hear that, but I recommend therapy, saying you won't be ok is giving them power they don't deserve. And people who hate under a dogma would have equally hated under another, whether it was Assembly of God, their wealthy social circle, or PETA. I learned a long time ago that people are people and dogma is dogma, and to blame religion or government, per se, for other people's choices is crap. Those people would have found a way to other or torture people somehow, make no mistake, my friend.

 

[blahblahbob]

I'm sorry to hear that, but I recommend therapy, saying you won't be ok is giving them power they don't deserve. And people who hate under a dogma would have equally hated under another, whether it was Assembly of God, their wealthy social circle, or PETA. I learned a long time ago that people are people and dogma is dogma, and to blame religion or government, per se, for other people's choices is crap. Those people would have found a way to other or torture people somehow, make no mistake, my friend.

I don't blame religion for anything other than making people willing to side with a pastor who rapes 25 kids over the period of a decade over the kids he raped. I have no idea how idiotic people have to be to behave that way, but only religion can make them that way. Anyway, I only blame them for the lack of responsibility they take for their behavior as an institution and the actions they take to avoid negative publicity as an institution.

 

[Thalassa]

I don't blame religion for anything other than making people willing to side with a pastor who rapes 25 kids over the period of a decade over the kids he raped. I have no idea how idiotic people have to be to behave that way, but only religion can make them that way. Anyway, I only blame them for the lack of responsibility they take for their behavior as an institution and the actions they take to avoid negative publicity as an institution.

No things other than religion can make people think that way. Nazi Germany, Southern slavery, child labor in the late 19th century, the current American attitude towards the homeless and mentally ill, nah its not about religion. Some of the kindest people in the world are religious, some of the worst are as well. People are stupid, when they're ignorant and afraid. We even have atheist men's rights activists who want to say that women who are rape victims are over reporting rape, some to the extent of it being just cruel victim blaming, not unlike your church members.

Oprah Winfrey was also molested and she's now one of the richest women in the world. I'm not saying we all should be rich or famous, but really you seem to be forming your adult identity around a childhood trauma and some people you can't stand who don't believe the same thing you do.

You can live in a world where some people are awful. You have to choose to reclaim your power. I'm not telling you to just get over it, that's not right, but you do have free will to stop defining yourself and your happiness by it at any moment.

 

[blahblahbob]

No things other than religion can make people think that way. Nazi Germany, Southern slavery, child labor in the late 19th century, the current American attitude towards the homeless and mentally ill, nah its not about religion. Some of the kindest people in the world are religious, some of the worst are as well. People are stupid, when they're ignorant and afraid. We even have atheist men's rights activists who want to say that women who are rape victims are over reporting rape, some to the extent of it being just cruel victim blaming, not unlike your church members.

Oprah Winfrey was also molested and she's now one of the richest women in the world. I'm not saying we all should be rich or famous, but really you seem to be forming your adult identity around a childhood trauma and some people you can't stand who don't believe the same thing you do.

You can live in a world where some people are awful. You have to choose to reclaim your power. I'm not telling you to just get over it, that's not right, but you do have free will to stop defining yourself and your happiness by it at any moment.

It's more complex than you understand. I never sat out to "define my identity" by it - but then the church implemented what I can only call "zersetzung" on me and that was 100 times more traumatic than the rape. Oprah knows nothing about sexual abuse for the following reason:

Dawkins posits that the concept of hell in a child is worse than being raped and molested as a child. Because I was molested by a religious authority on the basis of his religious authority and subsequently regarded as evil for it when I thought I was pleasing God by obeying my religious authorities, I completely agree with Dawkins. You can't simply undo the damage of 15 years of major depression caused by religion.

And, no, I can't reclaim any power because I don't have any power and never have had any.

 

[Thalassa]

It's more complex than you understand. I never sat out to "define my identity" by it - but then the church implemented what I can only call "zersetzung" on me and that was 100 times more traumatic than the rape. Oprah knows nothing about sexual abuse for the following reason:

Dawkins posits that the concept of hell in a child is worse than being raped and molested as a child. Because I was molested by a religious authority on the basis of his religious authority and subsequently regarded as evil for it when I thought I was pleasing God by obeying my religious authorities, I completely agree with Dawkins. You can't simply undo the damage of 15 years of major depression caused by religion.

And, no, I can't reclaim any power because I don't have any power and never have had any.

I'm so sorry you feel so convinced of your own powerlessness. Powerlessness is a lie, fed to the masses by corrupt leaders, but it's not your souls truth. If you were Christian, or even Taoist or Buddhist, I would appeal to the the meaning of your existence, by our truth as individual, the way you were created for love, how dare anyone keep you small. But since you are atheist, I will appeal to the simple now. The meaning of life is in the living, how much you could do with what limited resources you have been given emotionally, if not for others, for your self.

I appeal to your inner ENFP to consider the possibilities, you can if you think you can. Don't let them win, how ugly for an Fi type to surrender themselves to a false god, to something they don't even believe. Yes, you can.

I also appeal to your better nature in asking, really, is your sexual abuse so much worse than Oprah's, that you would seemingly lack compassion for her, despite her being molested by not church, but family. I appeal to your better nature, it's not only you.

I like to read biographies. To me, proof of real life is the litmus test, that human potential, it is as limited as you believe it to be.

 

[blahblahbob]

I'm so sorry you feel so convinced of your own powerlessness. Powerlessness is a lie, fed to the masses by corrupt leaders, but it's not your souls truth. If you were Christian, or even Taoist or Buddhist, I would appeal to the the meaning of your existence, by our truth as individual, the way you were created for love, how dare anyone keep you small. But since you are atheist, I will appeal to the simple now. The meaning of life is in the living, how much you could do with what limited resources you have been given emotionally, if not for others, for your self.

I appeal to your inner ENFP to consider the possibilities, you can if you think you can. Don't let them win, how ugly for an Fi type to surrender themselves to a false god, to something they don't even believe. Yes, you can.

I also appeal to your better nature in asking, really, is your sexual abuse so much worse than Oprah's, that you would seemingly lack compassion for her, despite her being molested by not church, but family. I appeal to your better nature, it's not only you.

I like to read biographies. To me, proof of real life is the litmus test, that human potential, it is as limited as you believe it to be.

This really isn't the forum to go into all my feelings on the matter and it's especially not the forum to complain about dirtbag propagandist predators like Oprah.