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Bluewing thinks Feeling has cooties

Sunshine

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It's funny that only Feelers ever respond to Bluewing and take him seriously about this shit. This thread proves once again.

Magic Poriferan
Jennifer
Orangey
Didums
MetalWounds
Night
The Liquid Laser
Haphazard
Edahn
Mr Galt
Aerithria
Blackwater
Ada
Sassafrassquatch
Dnivera
Nemo
Miked277
Grayscale
Zergling
Colmena
Digesthisickness
Uytuun
Owl
 

Magic Poriferan

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Rationality:
1. the state or quality of being rational.
2. the possession of reason.
3. agreeableness to reason; reasonableness.
4. the exercise of reason.
5. a reasonable view, practice, etc.


There's a lot of reference to reason there. But let's look at rational, first.

Rational:
1. agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible: a rational plan for economic development.
2. having or exercising reason, sound judgment, or good sense: a calm and rational negotiator.
3. being in or characterized by full possession of one's reason; sane; lucid: The patient appeared perfectly rational.
4. endowed with the faculty of reason: rational beings.
5. of, pertaining to, or constituting reasoning powers: the rational faculty.
6. proceeding or derived from reason or based on reasoning: a rational explanation.


All about reason again. So we have to get around to the definition of reason.

Reason:
1. a basis or cause, as for some belief, action, fact, event, etc.: the reason for declaring war.
2. a statement presented in justification or explanation of a belief or action.
3. the mental powers concerned with forming conclusions, judgments, or inferences.
4. sound judgment; good sense.
5. normal or sound powers of mind; sanity.
6. Logic. a premise of an argument.
7. Philosophy.
a. the faculty or power of acquiring intellectual knowledge, either by direct understanding of first principles or by argument.
b. the power of intelligent and dispassionate thought, or of conduct influenced by such thought.
c. Kantianism. the faculty by which the ideas of pure reason are created.

Except for philosophical definitions A and B, they all simply describe the process of Judgement without having a bias toward Think or against Feeling. There you go, the majority of definitions do not discount Feeling, and one definition would have been good enough.

BlueWing, I have just answered your entire thread. We can see that there is justifcation in Jung using the phrase "rational".
 

Magic Poriferan

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Magic Poriferan
Jennifer
Orangey
Didums
MetalWounds
Night
The Liquid Laser
Haphazard
Edahn
Mr Galt
Aerithria
Blackwater
Ada
Sassafrassquatch
Dnivera
Nemo
Miked277
Grayscale
Zergling
Colmena
Digesthisickness
Uytuun


Brava! :laugh:
I know you think I'm a Feeler, Nocapszy, but how about the rest of them?
 

Sunshine

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http://www.knowyourtype.com/feeling.html said:
Feeling (F)

People who have a preference for feeling judgment are concerned with whether decisions and actions are worthwhile. More personal in approach, feeling types believe they can make the best decisions by weighing what people care about and the points-of-view of persons involved in a situation.

Feeling types are concerned with personal values and with making decisions based on a ranking of greater to lesser importance—what is the best for the people involved. The feeling function places high value on relatedness between people, and feeling types are often concerned with establishing or maintaining harmony in their relationships. As they use and develop their feeling function, feeling types often come to appear caring, warm, and tactful. Remember, in type language, feeling does not mean being "emotional;" rather, it is a way of reasoning.

dictionary.com said:
ra·tion·al /ˈræʃənl, ˈræʃnl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rash-uh-nl, rash-nl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible: a rational plan for economic development.
2. having or exercising reason, sound judgment, or good sense: a calm and rational negotiator.
3. being in or characterized by full possession of one's reason; sane; lucid: The patient appeared perfectly rational.
4. endowed with the faculty of reason: rational beings.
5. of, pertaining to, or constituting reasoning powers: the rational faculty.
6. proceeding or derived from reason or based on reasoning: a rational explanation.
7. Mathematics. a. capable of being expressed exactly by a ratio of two integers.
b. (of a function) capable of being expressed exactly by a ratio of two polynomials.

8. Classical Prosody. capable of measurement in terms of the metrical unit or mora.
. .
 

alcea rosea

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Here we go again.
BlueWing is definitely on crusade here. lol

It's funny that only Feelers ever respond to Bluewing and take him seriously about this shit. This thread proves once again.

We definitely want to cure him from his bad thoughts.
lol

Love & Peace

:laugh:
 

Little Linguist

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Awww Bluey, I still think you need a hug - from a real person.

By the way, from now on, you are Bluey for me.

I don't know - somehow Bluey should be your name. Oh, and you need to get Bun-Bun for about six months. That'll reform you.
 

erm

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I think Sunshine has said what needed to be said.

I would like to emphasise though; Feeling is more concerned with emotion than Thinking, it is not, however, a direct result of or directly related to, emotions.

It is a thought process that values things. In that sense it is rational, added to the fact that it makes decisions.

I think I vaguely recall Jung linking feeling and emotions once, stating that feeling can often cause emotive responses in people, or some such. Other than that I've yet to see him make the link. (Emotions are instincts and archetypes according to Jung I think)
 

Nocapszy

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Brava! :laugh:
I know you think I'm a Feeler, Nocapszy, but how about the rest of them?

Was more of a temporary playful dig. Not a really serious comment. No need to worry.

I'm one to take these threads lightly. I troll because these discussions are worthless: Even if Bluewing is right (which I think he is on a good bit of it) the Fs, and even most of the Ts (pandering the Fs... probably tryin' to get some pussy y'know...) won't let him be right.


However most of the list I suspect to be feelers anyway;

Magic Poriferan
Jennifer
Orangey
Didums
MetalWounds
Night
The Liquid Laser
Haphazard
Edahn
Mr Galt
Aerithria
Blackwater
Ada

Sassafrassquatch
Dnivera
Nemo
Miked277
Grayscale
Zergling
Colmena

Digesthisickness
Uytuun

Most of the strikes are because I'm not familiar enough with their analytic/emotive repertoire to be confident, however several are struck through (most notably Grayscale and Zerlgling) with conviction.
 

Magic Poriferan

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I'm one to take these threads lightly. I troll because these discussions are worthless: Even if Bluewing is right (which I think he is on a good bit of it) the Fs, and even most of the Ts (pandering the Fs... probably tryin' to get some pussy y'know...) won't let him be right.

I can hardly see what the major imperative would be for pandering to Fs, since there's no real reward obtainable from other forum members.

I attack BlueWing for the obvious reasons. His definitions of the functions get muddled and crossed-over, and obviously imbalanced with a misinforming bias. He has a big tendency to misinterpret(intentionally or unintentionally) what other people mean. He likes to not respond at all to what are usually the most substantial points against him. He has, as has been very well confirmed by now, used plenty of logical fallacies, and he tends to make factual errors.

We have here this thread, where I just demonstrated that by most definitions, Feeling is rational, and Jung had perfectly good reason for using the word. I needed only to cite a dictionary. Jesus... Doesn't he look anything up? After a while, I can't help but think of "truthiness". "You got your facts from a book, but I got my facts from the heart". This reminds me... He also usually attacks qualities he demonstrates in himself as he attacks them. The most hillarious part is his attack usually states that ____ quality is irrational and thus can't reason. He discredits himself at least as fast as other people discredit him. I have no clue how you could look at the majority of this topics and think they were solidly assembled, and not grievously affected by bias.

Of course, it may just be that you think very much like he does.

However most of the list I suspect to be feelers anyway;

Magic Poriferan
Jennifer
Orangey
Didums
MetalWounds
Night
The Liquid Laser
Haphazard
Edahn
Mr Galt
Aerithria
Blackwater
Ada

Sassafrassquatch
Dnivera
Nemo
Miked277
Grayscale
Zergling
Colmena

Digesthisickness
Uytuun

Most of the strikes are because I'm not familiar enough with their analytic/emotive repertoire to be confident, however several are struck through (most notably Grayscale and Zerlgling) with conviction.


Okay. Which ones are the Feelers and which ones are the Thinkers? Either way, I'm somewhat surprised by that list. I guess I'll have to attribute the surprises to your lack of knowledge about some of these users.


Can I assume that you believe Thinkers are a small minority in the world?
 

Nocapszy

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Okay. Which ones are the Feelers and which ones are the Thinkers? Either way, I'm somewhat surprised by that list. I guess I'll have to attribute the surprises to your lack of knowledge about some of these users.
Any members who I don't know well enough to confidently diagnose, were crossed off. Anyone who's without a slash is indubitably a feeler (excepting Jennifer... I left her on the list 'cause she seems to go either way).

Can I assume that you believe Thinkers are a small minority in the world?

The slashed ones are the Ts. Seemed rather obvious considering you weren't slashed, and I think you're a feeler.

It's not even a slightly reasonable assumption to guess I believe in a Thinking minority.

Where does that hypothesis come from?
 

Nocapszy

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His definitions of the functions get muddled and crossed-over, and obviously imbalanced with a misinforming bias.
They really don't...

He's quite lucid in his understanding of typology. This recent crusade may very well be out of frustration, but isn't necessarily therein incorrect.

He has a big tendency to misinterpret(intentionally or unintentionally) what other people mean.
Usually Fs... but it's not his fault -- they often don't know how to precisely express what they mean. That's not really their fault either... they don't choose to hone nicety rather than diction. It's just what's more comfortable for them.
He likes to not respond at all to what are usually the most substantial points against him. He has, as has been very well confirmed by now, used plenty of logical fallacies, and he tends to make factual errors.
Factual errors, I'll agree to. However like I said, his conceptual understanding of typology is near seamless. Perhaps he's not got real anecdotal information, but since typology isn't really an anecdotally proven system, he doesn't have to.

It would be nice however for him to restrain himself there.




I'd also like to ask that we don't pretend that rebuttal is really out of much more than anger. He's not wrong. He and I have discussed it online. I haven't read his post but unless he's drastically altered his stance from the time we spoke and the time he wrote this, he's definitely not wrong.
 

Magic Poriferan

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The slashed ones are the Ts. Seemed rather obvious considering you weren't slashed, and I think you're a feeler.

Said I'd be surprised by the list either way, didn't I? It was because colmena was slashed, and Night was not, that I felt very confused.

It's not even a slightly reasonable assumption to guess I believe in a Thinking minority.

Where does that hypothesis come from?

It just seems to be that your standards for Thinking are very high, which obviously would mean that fewer people would qualify than if your standards were low. It seems like a little focus on Thinking values doesn't make someone a candidate for T, but a little focus on Feeling values seems to give everyone the F brand.

Also, I've seen you doubt the Thinking of plenty of Thinkers, ones that perhaps few others would doubt. On the other hand, I can't seem to recall you doubting the Feeling of any Feelers. I've never seen you insist that an F was actually a T. So, you seem to keep striking off the T population, while taking nothing from the F population.
 

Nocapszy

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It just seems to be that your standards for Thinking are very high, which obviously would mean that fewer people would qualify than if your standards were low. It seems like a little focus on Thinking values doesn't make someone a candidate for T, but a little focus on Feeling values seems to give everyone the F brand.

Also, I've seen you doubt the Thinking of plenty of Thinkers, ones that perhaps few others would doubt. On the other hand, I can't seem to recall you doubting the Feeling of any Feelers. I've never seen you insist that an F was actually a T. So, you seem to keep striking off the T population, while taking nothing from the F population.

Standards? What the hell are you talking about? If it's logical, it's T.
As for being a Thinking type, just using Fx every so often doesn't make you an F. It's not like T is some kind of elevated status that you have to be faithful to in order to be accepted into.

Your assumptions are very F-like. They really aren't backed by much logic at all. Perhaps it's because the framework you've got has limited resources (by low Ne with Ti in lieu) or perhaps it's because you are, in fact, an F.
 

Magic Poriferan

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Standards? What the hell are you talking about? If it's logical, it's T.

I'm talking about the standard threshold, when the amount of T that a person applies is high enough to make them a so-called Thinker. With no such standard defined, how else do you determine what side of the graph someone is on?


As for being a Thinking type, just using Fx every so often doesn't make you an F. It's not like T is some kind of elevated status that you have to be faithful to in order to be accepted into.

I don't think T is like that. The impression is given by others though. Certainly that's how BlueWing paints it. My point was that, in my observation, you are more like to draw conclusions someone's expression of Feeling than someone's expression of Thinking. This partially ties into my comment about you seeming to question the T of a lot of Thinkers, but not question the F of of Feelers. And what about that? You didn't respond to that.

Your assumptions are very F-like.

That's nice.

They really aren't backed by much logic at all. Perhaps it's because the framework you've got has limited resources (by low Ne with Ti in lieu) or perhaps it's because you are, in fact, an F.

You're confusing me because you don't seem to have a metric for determining a person's type, and yet, the way you approach typing(such as stating that a Feeler is someone that relies on Feeling proportionately more than Thinking) clearly requires some kind of quantifiability. But as long as you don't have a metric system, you can't measure any ratio or quantity to determine such things.
 

Nocapszy

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You assume I've deemed it a worthy investment of time to elaborate.

Ah, but I am only playing.

The only rational way to measure is on a number line, where
0 = x
left of 0 = T
right of 0 = F

I believe X exists. For every instance of T or F (there can be dozens of either or both in a single sentence) add one in the appropriate direction, simultaneously taking one away from the other.
If they consistently go back and forth between the two, they're an X.

Being T means never, or rarely having your average (the number line measures just that if we were to use it) cross over into the F section.

Being F means the same, except your dot on the line would be the negative (or positive 'cause if I don't say it that way, you'll all complain of an insult) of what is necessary to be a T.


Poriferan, it's quite obnoxious that you insist that I don't hold an opinion, or don't have any metric just because I don't express it. Don't bother me with "you seem not to..."

Keep in mind -- you've said it yourself -- I'm pretty arrogant, and subsequently don't really take responsibility for providing a whole lot of justification.
 

Magic Poriferan

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The only rational way to measure is on a number line, where
0 = x
left of 0 = T
right of 0 = F

I believe X exists. For every instance of T or F (there can be dozens of either or both in a single sentence) add one in the appropriate direction, simultaneously taking one away from the other.
If they consistently go back and forth between the two, they're an X.

Being T means never, or rarely having your average (the number line measures just that if we were to use it) cross over into the F section.

Being F means the same, except your dot on the line would be the negative (or positive 'cause if I don't say it that way, you'll all complain of an insult) of what is necessary to be a T.

This is pretty much how I imagined such a metric being designed. Of course, the problem of interpretation is a stong one here. When exactly is an instance of T or F? It's clearly not so easy to answer, since we have situations where BlueWing calls an instance of F because I said "right" and "wrong" and those have moral definitions. And I call an instance of T, because they can also mean "true" and "false" synonymously, and that's what I meant.


Poriferan, it's quite obnoxious that you insist that I don't hold an opinion, or don't have any metric just because I don't express it. Don't bother me with "you seem not to..."

Until you express it, it is for all intents and purposes of the discussion, non-existent.

Keep in mind -- you've said it yourself -- I'm pretty arrogant, and subsequently don't really take responsibility for providing a whole lot of justification.

Well, that's fine, so long as you're prepared to face whatever consquences that brings.
 

Grayscale

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i might be a feeler... you never know. today at the poker table, i had my pocket aces beat by a 3-6 and my mouth twitched a little, i can fly off the handle like that sometimes :steam:
 

The_Liquid_Laser

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i might be a feeler... you never know. today at the poker table, i had my pocket aces beat by a 3-6 and my mouth twitched a little, i can fly off the handle like that sometimes :steam:

That does it! We're putting a big scarlet "F" on you, you feeler! It looks just like the one I'm wearing. :D
 

Sunshine

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I think Sunshine has said what needed to be said.

I would like to emphasise though; Feeling is more concerned with emotion than Thinking, it is not, however, a direct result of or directly related to, emotions.

It is a thought process that values things. In that sense it is rational, added to the fact that it makes decisions.

I think I vaguely recall Jung linking feeling and emotions once, stating that feeling can often cause emotive responses in people, or some such. Other than that I've yet to see him make the link. (Emotions are instincts and archetypes according to Jung I think)

.
 

Nocapszy

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i might be a feeler... you never know. today at the poker table, i had my pocket aces beat by a 3-6 and my mouth twitched a little, i can fly off the handle like that sometimes :steam:

Were you irritated that you'd been beaten or did you feel assaulted by the cards? Like they were ganging up on you -- did it feel like that?
 
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