NFs and their causes

[nolla]

it's just a shame science can't feel the same pain it's causing us feeling people.

It feels the pain when you grab it by the logic and twist hard.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Pleeeeeaase, don't rail against science and logic. They have done very good things for you. By railing against them you'll only make BlueWing feel right.

Now, there are some of those Thinking guys that are actually sticking up for you, like moi. We haven't all been working against you. Don't blame all of scientific thinking for the transgressions of someone as mistaken as BlueWing.

 

[findthejake]

muah!

 

[Sunshine]

Pleeeeeaase, don't rail against science and logic. They have done very good things for you. By railing against them you'll only make BlueWing feel right.

Now, there are some of those Thinking guys that are actually sticking up for you, like moi. We haven't all been working against you. Don't blame all of scientific thinking for the transgressions of someone as mistaken as BlueWing.

Magic Poriferan is awesome.

 

[nolla]

This is turning into a love-thread.

Mission accomplished.

*high five*

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Magic Poriferan is awesome.

Thank you!
Let me say, you did some nice work in the thread about the rationality of Feeling. Pointed, and it made me laugh. The respect is mutual.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

What else is there to say? Shall I point out your fallacies one by one or do you get it now?

Yes please. Fallacy is an error in reasoning. You need to study formal logic to make sure you know what this term means in the vernacular.

Bluewing, for an INTP, you truly lack objectivity. Or, perhaps you've been detached too far from the real world for too long to have a good understanding of how people really are. You lack foresight and the ability to question your own logic. You dive deep into these ideas that have no observable root in reality. Its quite sad to see that someone of your intelligence can be so ignorant and intolerant of the characteristics that other people have. Do you understand the science of emotion vs. thinking? Some people have more blood flow in the anterior cingulate gyrus, temporal lobes, and posterior thalamus, which are involved in sensory and emotional experience. These people are innately Feelers via genetics, and you are being intolerant of their genetic make-up. They can't just arbitrarily switch to T, and you can't switch to F. Both F and T have their place in this society, we are interdependent. I don't even know why I'm responding seriously to this, your post is logically fallacious for the same reasons as most of your other threads, the same fallacies are being repeated over and over. Countless people on these forums have shown you the faults in your logic but you remain ignorant and respond to them with utter arrogance:

As said in Team America: World Police, you're just an asshole that wants to shit all over everything, the only thing that can f*** an asshole is a dick, with some balls. If we don't f*** this asshole then we're going to have all our dicks and pussies covered in shit!?

Its okay my friend. When I was your age I too used to get mad at that kind of a thing too. I tried to find reasons to believe that the not so flattering ideas about people that I hold now (perhaps not as sophisticated and thorough) were false. As I aged, I realized this was a futile endeavor. Hey, give it another 5 years...you'll be closer to my views in attitude at least.

You seem to be way ahead of me actually. Even at 19 when I just joined INTPc I wrote a long post countering Hustler's proclamation that INTP is the superior type to all. And during his NF purge on INTPc I tried to help the oppressed. Meh...eventually I was forced to admit that he was right all along. I was just trying to give myself excuses to dream. (You seem to be doing what I did at 19 at 16...you're getting yourself on the path to beating this out of your system earlier!)

I love the youthful vigor and charity, very rare thing in the mutilated world we live in, especially for an INTP. I earnestly hope you could keep this up. But I doubt you will be able to. Its just too counter-intuitive! And the loss of faith in human goodness is an inevitable result of going out to the world to experience it directly.

---------------------------------------------------------------

But here of course we're talking about an attitude. Completely irrelevant to my post. But VERY interesting indeed.

 

[cafe]

Seems to me we are taking the worst possible outcomes based on the actions of unbalanced people grabbing and running with the teachings of great men, who may or may not have been NFs and, under narrow, unrealistic, and unnatural constraints, comparing them to the best outcomes of the teachings of men who may or may not have been rationals. This framework is artificial, heavily biased, and BlueWing is consciously or unconsciously being disingenuous (again).

Having one's ideas twisted and used for evil is nothing exclusive to NFs. Darwin did nor foresee Hitler. Einstein is said to have regretted his involvement in the Manhattan Project. I don't think Stalin is probably what Marx had in mind. Did Columbus anticipate the ethnic cleansing of America's native populations? Did he care one way or another?

Some humans will turn any tool they put their hand to into a weapon and even a weapon is just another tool. Even the most rational mind cannot anticipate every possible outcome of their words and actions. That's just silly.

Anyway, BlueWing has been doing this kind of thing in various forms for a couple of years now. I don't think he's progressed a whole lot in his thinking. I don't think he's interested in real discussion. What is he doing and why is he doing it? Why do we provide our services for his apparent self-stimulation?

Meh.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

Seems to me we are taking the worst possible outcomes based on the actions of unbalanced people grabbing and running with the teachings of great men, who may or may not have been NFs and, under narrow, unrealistic, and unnatural constraints, comparing them to the best outcomes of the teachings of men who may or may not have been rationals. This framework is artificial, heavily biased, and BlueWing is consciously or unconsciously being disingenuous (again).

Having one's ideas twisted and used for evil is nothing exclusive to NFs. Darwin did nor foresee Hitler. Einstein is said to have regretted his involvement in the Manhattan Project. I don't think Stalin is probably what Marx had in mind. Did Columbus anticipate the ethnic cleansing of America's native populations? Did he care one way or another?

Some humans will turn any tool they put their hand to into a weapon and even a weapon is just another tool. Even the most rational mind cannot anticipate every possible outcome of their words and actions. That's just silly.

Anyway, BlueWing has been doing this kind of thing in various forms for a couple of years now. I don't think he's progressed a whole lot in his thinking. I don't think he's interested in real discussion. What is he doing and why is he doing it? Why do we provide our services for his apparent self-stimulation?

Meh.

Bottom line--NT teachers (should they be in good use of their faculties) will found their teaching on rational, dispassionate reasoning. NFs on torrential and amorphous passions, unless they had good access to Thinking, most of them didnt....The particular examples you use to illustrate them are irrelevant.

The result of the latter is far from favorable to us for reasons cited earlier.

The message is unclear and often contradictory. This opens up the ground for it to be turned into whatever we want to have it as. This just can't be done with a good NT framework where everything is clearly defined and reasoned through carefully with high logical consistency.

 

[nolla]

I don't think he's interested in real discussion. What is he doing and why is he doing it?

I stopped caring at the point I was ignored.

 

[Sunshine]

Why do we provide our services for his apparent self-stimulation?

Meh.

Good point.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Why do we provide our services for his apparent self-stimulation?

Meh.

Good point.

Yes, good point. Why do we provide any of these services to him?

 

[Sunshine]

Yes, good point. Why do we provide any of these services to him?

We want to see if he'll actually see his fallacies this time?
We want to make sure that people don't get wrong information?

 

[Magic Poriferan]

We want to see if he'll actually see his fallacies this time?
We want to make sure that people don't get wrong information?

We've tried way too long to try and guide him. I don't think it's worth the effort. What about you?

And I'd like to point out that we wouldn't have to worry about him confusing or insulting anyone if he couldn't talk.

 

[Sunshine]

We've tried way too long to try and guide him. I don't think it's worth the effort. What about you?

And I'd like to point out that we wouldn't have to worry about him confusing or insulting anyone if he couldn't talk.

Mods, I think Magic brought up a really good point.

 

[SolitaryWalker]

Yes, please Guide me to the way of right values! I sincerely want to learn! But it has to be the right FEEL!

Your Feel hasnt been right yet! And this fallacies, that fallacy the third..huh..mumbo jumbo..i forget how i define these terms bleh..I dont feel well tonight!

And remember! Dont you dare think it through! It is only Logic! Not what you say, but HOW you say it now! Listen to your heart, deep within! Maybe you will reach mine some day.

Dont you dare either try to come up with structure to your thoughts or clear definitions of terms. Lest it all be like a cold mathematical equation and suffocate the soul! Ouh my!

 

[Magic Poriferan]

And now he's going through his typical route of using mockery to paint all of his detractors as extreme Fs... and Es... and Ss... and all the types he is not, and has thoroughly explained he hates.

Just an example:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/mbti-enneagram-other-personality-matrices/6662-evolution-typology.html

Seriously think about it.
Why does this guy deserve to be heard here, still? You can't say he hasn't been given a hell of a lot of chances.

 

[nomadic]

guess he feels like mocking people. lol

thats not how a logical person talks.

logical people do not mock.

 

[yenom]

Bluewing

Can you answer these questions for me?

What is objective?
Is T=rational, and F=irrational?
do T's experience no fear, since fear is an emotion?
Where do you get the assumption that F=fantacism?
Before logic and scieitnifc method wasinvented, are there no T's in this world?

Note I am not attacking you or interested in proving you wrong. but these are answers I am seeking.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Before logic and scieitnifc method wasinvented, are there no T's in this world?

Look at the link I posted up there, and you'll get the picture.