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What type do you wish you were?

lulabelle

New member
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
255
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I would like to be ISTP, they seem like very "cool", aware people, better task focus than INTPs and seem to fit in better socially.



I am very skeptical of these claims, the way introverts and extroverts are defined is likely to be erroneous in those studies, calling a friend or walking with a friend has little to do with cognitive extroversion.

All extroversion means is that you are oriented towards the object, there are many introvert "types" that would easily be mistaken for extroverts by these colloquial notions. Carl Jung described himself is a very sociable person but he clearly categorized himself as a introvert(likely introverted thinking dominant) while he described Freud as more socially reclusive but a clear extrovert(more specifically extroverted thinking dominant).

I suspect what these studies are really measuring is emotional stability/neuroticism as an independent personality dimension, a shy anxious person is being lumped in as an introvert when this is more to do with social anxiety. You might argue that social anxiety is correlated with introversion but it seems more like introversion is being equated to being socially anxious/reclusive/negative moods, ect., I mean if a lot of researchers can't even define introverts and extroverts right their studies and the conclusions they produce are crappy from the start. All these studies are telling me is that people who are more socially isolated tend to be less happy, but that is a very different beast than the introversion/extroversion Jung was talking about.

There are a lot of socially immature/awkward extroverts out there that would be erroneously classified as introverts by these studies.

Did you see the keirsey study? These are people who have self-typed as the various types... there is a strong correlation beterrn intreoversion and extroversion in the chart, which I have witnessed myself, experienced myself etc

I don't think you can entirely separate socially isolated from introvert, however... extroverts are way more likely to be around people and have a social system of support. You can't just pretend that there would likely be no correlation... I've seen it in my life, I"ve seen it on threads in the ENFP sub versus INFP sub and in all the subs of the introverted type and its extroverted counterpart. There is no doubt that introverts seem to experience more isolation and social anxiety than their extroverted counterparts. This is a conclusion that has come up again and again. I find it hard to believe that there is no truth to it.
 

Kullervo

Permabanned
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
3,298
MBTI Type
N/A
ENTJ, 8w7 with a 4 fix.

That would be a force to be reckoned with!
 

Bog

New member
Joined
Dec 5, 2014
Messages
13
MBTI Type
ISTP
Enneagram
8w7
Hmm I would never want to give up my T or my P, but I think ENTP would be cool!
 

OneLovelyAdventure

Gryffindor Prefect
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
139
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
378
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I love being an ENFP, but sometimes I wish I had stronger T. I don't necessarily want to say I wish I were an ENTP, but they definitely seem to have everything together without being too sensitive like their fellow Ne-doms (aka us.) You guys are just so cool! You're so witty and clever and you aren't as totally absent-minded as we are! *admires from afar due to intimidation*
 

five sounds

MyPeeSmellsLikeCoffee247
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
5,393
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
729
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
ALL OF THEM!
 

lunalum

Super Senior Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
2,706
MBTI Type
ZNTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I love being an ENFP, but sometimes I wish I had stronger T. I don't necessarily want to say I wish I were an ENTP, but they definitely seem to have everything together without being too sensitive like their fellow Ne-doms (aka us.) You guys are just so cool! You're so witty and clever and you aren't as totally absent-minded as we are! *admires from afar due to intimidation*

Wait, what? Something about witty and clever? Was too busy spacing out to catch all that....
 

OneLovelyAdventure

Gryffindor Prefect
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
139
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
378
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Wait, what? Something about witty and clever? Was too busy spacing out to catch all that....

I find you guys so charming and funny. :blush: All the ENTPs I know are people I have been/are very close with, and they seem pretty down to earth. My ENTP friends mock me for spacing out, but I guess dom-Ne makes sense for you guys to space out too. Either way, you absolutely are witty and funny and I can't get enough of you people. You're lovely, really.
 

Robopop

New member
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
692
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Did you see the keirsey study? These are people who have self-typed as the various types... there is a strong correlation beterrn intreoversion and extroversion in the chart, which I have witnessed myself, experienced myself etc

I have a lot of problems with keirsey, I am of the opinion that someone's "type" cannot be assessed with some 20 minute personality test, I think it takes years of self-assessment and study of cognitive functions. I think he focuses too much on superficial behavioral traits and not enough on core motivations which I think are far more important to assessing introversion, extroversion, thinking, feeling, ect. If you hang out with your special social circle because they help reinforce your subjective attitude then you are hanging out with these people for introverted reasons even though this would likely be categorized as extroversion by systems like The Big Five, ect.

I don't think you can entirely separate socially isolated from introvert, however... extroverts are way more likely to be around people and have a social system of support. You can't just pretend that there would likely be no correlation... I've seen it in my life, I"ve seen it on threads in the ENFP sub versus INFP sub and in all the subs of the introverted type and its extroverted counterpart. There is no doubt that introverts seem to experience more isolation and social anxiety than their extroverted counterparts. This is a conclusion that has come up again and again. I find it hard to believe that there is no truth to it.

The problems is the way extroversion is defined by most of these studies(which probably uses the Big Five tests) includes positive emotions in the extroversion dimension, so this is very circular reasoning here. Also you made the claim that introverts are sadder or whatever, even if introverts are somehow "less" happy than extroverts that does not imply they are sadder/experience more negative emotions, it is implied by the Big Five that an emotionally stable introvert would be more "neutral" in moods while an emotionally unstable extrovert would experience wild mood swing between extreme highs and lows.

This also tests the credibility of many of these personality measures because extroversion and emotional stability would not be the independent personality scales they are supposed to be, I never said there was no correlation between introversion and social anxiety/isolation(I think there is a loose correlation) but I am very skeptical about the way these studies are measuring extroversion, introversion and other personality dimensions and these are what you are using as "proof" of your claims.

I think people who are often "neurotic" tend to be heavily unbalanced introverts and extroverts, hence the consistently reclusive, melancholic introverts and the high strung, volatile extroverts.
 

Lark

Active member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
29,569
I tend to think too much of the weaknesses of the type I am, I wish I was more like, to give a fictional example, Sherlock Holmes, who I believe was an ISTJ, or, to give a factual example, Theodore Roosevelt, who I'm not sure about type wise, and maybe its more to do with his habits of reading, adventuring and managing to do and achieve so much in a single lifetime than anything else.
 

Redbone

Orisha
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,882
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
ALL OF THEM!

Haha...so many choices...so little time! :D

I like being an ENFP but I secretly dream of being an ENTJ or being an ENFP enneagram 7 or 8 instead of a 4.
 

lulabelle

New member
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
255
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I have a lot of problems with keirsey, I am of the opinion that someone's "type" cannot be assessed with some 20 minute personality test, I think it takes years of self-assessment and study of cognitive functions. I think he focuses too much on superficial behavioral traits and not enough on core motivations which I think are far more important to assessing introversion, extroversion, thinking, feeling, ect. If you hang out with your special social circle because they help reinforce your subjective attitude then you are hanging out with these people for introverted reasons even though this would likely be categorized as extroversion by systems like The Big Five, ect.



The problems is the way extroversion is defined by most of these studies(which probably uses the Big Five tests) includes positive emotions in the extroversion dimension, so this is very circular reasoning here. Also you made the claim that introverts are sadder or whatever, even if introverts are somehow "less" happy than extroverts that does not imply they are sadder/experience more negative emotions, it is implied by the Big Five that an emotionally stable introvert would be more "neutral" in moods while an emotionally unstable extrovert would experience wild mood swing between extreme highs and lows.

This also tests the credibility of many of these personality measures because extroversion and emotional stability would not be the independent personality scales they are supposed to be, I never said there was no correlation between introversion and social anxiety/isolation(I think there is a loose correlation) but I am very skeptical about the way these studies are measuring extroversion, introversion and other personality dimensions and these are what you are using as "proof" of your claims.

I think people who are often "neurotic" tend to be heavily unbalanced introverts and extroverts, hence the consistently reclusive, melancholic introverts and the high strung, volatile extroverts.

we'll have to agree to disagree. my ENFP friends describe me and other INFPs I know as sadder versions of them... I've seen the whole sadder introvert thing play out a lot irl. i don't think you can disregard all of the evidence just because it isn't 100% perfect. there have been MANY introvert/extrovert studies and they all have had the same conclusions
 

lunalum

Super Senior Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
2,706
MBTI Type
ZNTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I find you guys so charming and funny. :blush: All the ENTPs I know are people I have been/are very close with, and they seem pretty down to earth. My ENTP friends mock me for spacing out, but I guess dom-Ne makes sense for you guys to space out too. Either way, you absolutely are witty and funny and I can't get enough of you people. You're lovely, really.

Well, I would wish to be ENFP if I had to wish to be another type, so the flattery is mutual I suppose :D
 

lunalum

Super Senior Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2008
Messages
2,706
MBTI Type
ZNTP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
we'll have to agree to disagree. my ENFP friends describe me and other INFPs I know as sadder versions of them... I've seen the whole sadder introvert thing play out a lot irl. i don't think you can disregard all of the evidence just because it isn't 100% perfect. there have been MANY introvert/extrovert studies and they all have had the same conclusions

Your ENFP friends are probably enneagram type 7s too, which kind of adds another layer to this. 7s are like Princess Unikitty of the Lego Movie, they amp up the expression of happy by any means necessary. Type 4s are like the opposite of this, emotional authenticity and whatnot. I'm not sure that ENTJs seem any happier than INTJs, for example. Extraversion may be linked to the expression of positive emotions but not necessarily to the experience of them.
 

Yaru

New member
Joined
Nov 10, 2014
Messages
291
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
I´d say ENTP INTP INTJ maybe ENTJ
 

lulabelle

New member
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
255
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Your ENFP friends are probably enneagram type 7s too, which kind of adds another layer to this. 7s are like Princess Unikitty of the Lego Movie, they amp up the expression of happy by any means necessary. Type 4s are like the opposite of this, emotional authenticity and whatnot. I'm not sure that ENTJs seem any happier than INTJs, for example. Extraversion may be linked to the expression of positive emotions but not necessarily to the experience of them.

In what I've observed and heard from all kinds of friends (introverted and extroverted) it's both. With regard to ENTJs and INTJs, I've actually noticed that most ENTJs do seem to have a higher baseline happiness because their happiness is very contingent on conventional work goals and whatnot, which due to their forceful determined nature they usually make happen.

- - - Updated - - -

Your ENFP friends are probably enneagram type 7s too, which kind of adds another layer to this. 7s are like Princess Unikitty of the Lego Movie, they amp up the expression of happy by any means necessary. Type 4s are like the opposite of this, emotional authenticity and whatnot. I'm not sure that ENTJs seem any happier than INTJs, for example. Extraversion may be linked to the expression of positive emotions but not necessarily to the experience of them.

In what I've observed and heard from all kinds of friends (introverted and extroverted) it's both. With regard to ENTJs and INTJs, I've actually noticed that most ENTJs do seem to have a higher baseline happiness because their happiness is very contingent on conventional work goals and whatnot, which due to their forceful determined nature they usually make happen.
 

Robopop

New member
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
692
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
we'll have to agree to disagree. my ENFP friends describe me and other INFPs I know as sadder versions of them... I've seen the whole sadder introvert thing play out a lot irl. i don't think you can disregard all of the evidence just because it isn't 100% perfect. there have been MANY introvert/extrovert studies and they all have had the same conclusions

All you are doing is confusing melancholic introverts(or people) with all introverts, I have never really thought of myself as a "sad" or "moody" person but I'm not a bright sunshine bubbly person either, my moods are generally calm and neutral most of the time. I think INTPs specifically are probably more phlegmatic in temperament and moods. Many of the extroverts I personally know are not what I would consider happy, more like antsy and easily agitated. If what you are saying is true then neuroticism and extroversion/introversion are not independent personality dimensions, you are literally equating neuroticism with introversion, I don't think there's a lot of good evidence to back that up(partly because it would undermine the very studies themselves).

The very tricky part of this is that "depressed" individuals will superficially display more stereotypical introverted behaviors(withdrawn, apathetic, ect.) but there is important distinctions to be made, introverts shun extravenous stimulus to focus more in depth while depression is characterized by lose of pleasure in activities(anhedonia) and low mood. It is probably that "low mood" part that can be confused with the introvert's need the withdraw to focus more, introverts are generally more careful and more through with their thoughts.
 

whatson

New member
Joined
Dec 11, 2014
Messages
15
MBTI Type
ISFJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
INFJ. ISFJ are seen as dumb.
 
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