I can't remember or find if we have had one of these threads yet. I'm curious about it because right now I'm close to someone who is clearly NF and clearly an N dom, but seems to fall exactly in-between these two categories, and in a funny way I can see some ENFP in myself. It feels like there are some INFJs who are the introverted version of the ENFP. There is the same type of silliness, wonder, and fascination with the big picture, but a quieter demeanor and a bit more structure externally.
I can definitely see an INFJ type that is serious, deep, focused, and on the fringe in the world of ideas and people. Is there legitimately this lighter type? I realize it can be associated with Enneagram 9 type, but is there any more to it than that? I'm just curious to kick off a discussion and see where it goes. Have you ever met someone and had a hard time figuring out if they are ENFP or INFJ? The stereotypes are quite polarized, so it stands out to me that there could be so many similarities.
There is not really an "introverted version" of ENFP...that is like saying there is an "extroverted version" of INFJ. There is only INFJ and ENFP...one or the other. Their function stacks are completely different and so they "are" completely different.
ENFP's have
extroverted functions at the dominant-tertiary positions: Ne-Te, where as INFJ's have
introverted functions at the dominant-tertiary positions: Ni-Ti. How does this manifest externally? INFJ's will be quieter, more logical, contemplative, deliberate, decisive, thoughtful, focused, grounded, detached and serious. The only thing they show to the world is Fe. They are introverts...they don't "recharge"...they project (often reluctantly) and then retract. They don't withdraw to examine (Fi) like ENFP's do. Introverts will often talk themselves out of self-made plans of going somewhere in the external world.
Ne-Te? I call it "PPP", or positive possibilities regarding people, and ENFP's love connecting with people to bounce around, ideas, theories, and thoughts (Te). They dislike boredom, the mundane, redundancy or feeling stuck. They are often scatter-brained (Ne), exploratory, optimistic, and passionate about personal values (Fi). Garrulous story-tellers at times, bubbly, tendency to talk fast..."Christmas-tree" mind...resist control...always want options...individualistic...indecisive in the absence of a strong judging function...poor follow through...sometimes forgetful/absent-minded. They withdraw into periods of "downtime" to examine their Fi values. They have a positive outlook on life due to Ne and they want to maintain that outlook. They are good at "pattern-surfing", brain-storming, improvisation and initiating change in other people (inspirational). They have poor boundary control and need to be more judgmental about who they let into their life, while letting go of those who are harmful (long-term).
They need downtime to "recharge" but they are not introverted...unless of course they are actually INFP.
This is where I personally get confused by ENFP's who will seek to prove how they "can be more introverted than introverts". But if that is indeed the case, then why is it that they are not self-typing as INFP instead of ENFP? Or maybe there is another "mystical/mythical" Enneagram type that we don't know about...a place where INFJs and INFPs go that we just can't see. It is the same thing with ENFPs who want to type themselves at E5, where studies have found NO instance of ENFP. This phenomenon seems to occur only with ENFPs and I don't follow the logic. The type descriptions are not the things to focus on. E5 is about (avarice) withholding of self (mentally, emotionally, physically), fear of being overwhelmed or "swallowed up" by others, losing control, emotional detachment to remain objective, avoiding neediness in others, keeping others out, compartmentalization and social awkwardness. E5 is about hoarding, stinginess and lack of attention to the physical environment...low energy for doing, high energy for thinking and knowing.
The E5's home is often a castle, with a drawbridge that immediately springs up behind it...with a sign that says "keep out". Think Edward Scissorhands, who was completely content in his castle and oblivious to the town surrounding him. He never really fit...they never really understood him. 4w5's will experience life in a similar way (like 5w4). As an INFJ 4w5 sp/sx, I identify heavily with the previous sentence. Ni-Ti with subdued Fe can rationalize away the need to be with others. This is simply not the realm of ENFP looking to connect with others. It just ain't so. Long-term, introverts make excuses not to see people, extroverts do the opposite.
The biggest myth of the Enneagram is Type 4 as an extroverted type, where ESTJs, ENFJs, and ENFPs can all "hang out" with INFJs INFPs, INTJs and ISFPs. Imagine all those different dominant-auxiliary function combinations exhibiting the same type of outward/inward expression that correlates to Enneagram 4. I don't see it and theory doesn't either.
Again, Enneagram 4w5's are very similar to 5w4's and are in the "pit of the Enneagram". They both represent the most introverted types within the Enneagram. Both types (E4 and E5) reinforce one another, which makes them doubly-withdrawn, contemplative, detached, introspective and isolated (at times).
They are both reclusive, often even hermits, and have real problems with avarice (withholding of self from others), hoarding of time, minimizing, self-absorption, detachment from surroundings.
Karen Horney's Directional Theory:
Directional Theory
Withdrawn types: 4 - 5 - 9
Type 4: the withdrawn ideal-seeker. 0/0
The 4’s surface and deep compulsions both move away from the environment, making them the most introspective, individualistic type of all. This doubly-withdrawn compulsion gives the 4 an unusual freedom; they are psychologically less bound by the real-world constraints that other types feel. This freedom makes them highly original and creative, and highly attuned to the emotional nuances that other types block out in order to deal with practical life. However, this freedom also gives rise to the average 4’s self-absorption and alienation from ordinary life. Like the other ideal-seekers, the 4 seeks a utopian ideal that makes reality forever seem inadequate. All the ideal-seekers feel a chronic sense of "something missing", which in the 4 applies to their inner life. The 4’s ideals are withdrawn and intensely personal, making the 4 the romantic idealist as opposed to the 1’s practical idealism.
Type 5: the withdrawn power-seeker. 0/-
The 5 moves away from others on the surface, but against others underneath. Hence, average 5s may seem apathetic and laconic on the surface, but underneath they are not as detached as they act. The power-seeking drive seeks control, and is fearful of being overwhelmed and losing control. The withdrawn types by definition conserve physical energy, and so 5s prefer intellectual or strategic endeavors over active labor. Like all power-seekers, the 5 often acquires a "sphere" of influence and a strong sense of owning this sphere. The 5’s sphere is usually mental, as opposed to the 2’s social sphere and the 8’s worldly sphere.
Type 7: the embracing ideal-seeker. +/0
(Typically ENFP...7 integrates at E5, which looks similar to E5, but core issues/habits of attention and motivations are not the same...types 7w6, 6w7 and 3w4 are best fits.)
The 7 embraces the world on the surface, but moves away from it underneath. So while the 7 seems focused on enjoying the real world, their mind is actually attending to a glorious fantasy of how things could be even better.
Like the 1 and 4, the 7’s unbounded fantasies make the real world seem forever inadequate by comparison, leading to a chronic feeling of "something missing", or in the 7’s case, of having "missed out" on something. However, the 7’s disappointments are often hidden behind their embracing exterior, which has a large capacity for positive, appreciative emotions. Like the other ideal-seekers, the 7 is satisfied only with the best of whatever they become interested in. However, because they have so many positive feelings for so many things, they may start to define "best" in terms of quantity rather than quality. The 7’s inspiration-seeking qualities are under-recognized, because many view the 7 as a glutton, seeking merely to consume everything in sight. However, the 7’s higher aspirations are evident in creations such as Mozart’s extraordinary music, or the "Camelot" ideals and lunar mission inspired by President Kennedy.
Since both 4's and 7's are idealists, this can be a source of confusion. Both sense something missing. Both idealize and fantasize. However, 4's are much more prone to negative/somber feelings, often cultivating them and intensifying them. 4w5/5w4 are often attracted to dark, surreal or obscure subject matter and have no trouble inhabiting uncomfortable moods. A love of the bizarre and the macabre is another feature of both types. They can have a fascination with death, nihilism and emptiness. They can stare into the abyss and survive over and over again. There is no emotion that 4w5 in particular has not examined and felt in life. Both types inhabit the pit of the Enneagram for a reason. There isn't much that separates the two.
To make an analogy: INFJ is a world that is always overcast, where the sun might slip through a thin layers of clouds. ENFP is a world where cloudy days may beckon but overall the sun "must" shine.
If you care to know more, just cyber stalk me. I don't believe there's anything else that would do.
