[Fe] Fe Empathy

[doppelganger]

Hello forum! I recently had Fe empathy described to me as the ability to feel what others feel. The INFP who said this contrasted this idea with Fi empathy which he said is the ability to imagine what he would feel if he was placed in others' shoes.

Do you agree with these ideas? How can Fe feel what another is feeling? Isn't this also an act of imagination, of putting yourself in someone else's place, like Fi?

And which function is more accurate in its empathy?

 

[á´…eparted]

That's not really how it works.

I'm an Fe-dom and my empathy has a switch to it. I can more or less turn it on or off at will in various situations, but sometimes the switch has a mind of its own. The thing is, empathy isn't really dependent upon type.

What the above is describing is how the functions work. Fi is self-referential. This is why they seek to imagine how they would feel in a given situation by putting themselves in another persons shoes. They have a highly developed internal system of how to judge and understand the world. I'm an Fe-dom and don't actively do this, so I'll admit I don't really "get" how this works, and I just acknowledge that it does based off the fact that many many Fi-doms do this and do it well.

With Fe it makes judgements based off the external world. When it comes to the self it's sort of incidental. But describing it as the ability to feel what others feel has no relation to the function, or any function. The way Fe understands others is by comparing what they see in others to what they know of the world around them. Sort of going by bulk information as opposed to a singular entity (the self) as Fi does.

 

[doppelganger]

That's not really how it works.

I'm an Fe-dom and my empathy has a switch to it. I can more or less turn it on or off at will in various situations, but sometimes the switch has a mind of its own. The thing is, empathy isn't really dependent upon type.

What the above is describing is how the functions work. Fi is self-referential. This is why they seek to imagine how they would feel in a given situation by putting themselves in another persons shoes. They have a highly developed internal system of how to judge and understand the world. I'm an Fe-dom and don't actively do this, so I'll admit I don't really "get" how this works, and I just acknowledge that it does based off the fact that many many Fi-doms do this and do it well.

With Fe it makes judgements based off the external world. When it comes to the self it's sort of incidental. But describing it as the ability to feel what others feel has no relation to the function, or any function. The way Fe understands others is by comparing what they see in others to what they know of the world around them. Sort of going by bulk information as opposed to a singular entity (the self) as Fi does.

I don't understand this. Can you explain another way?

 

[á´…eparted]

I don't understand this. Can you explain another way?

In order to understand others and see where they come from, Fe will consider their experiences based off what it has observed in the past from others, what it knows about people in general, and will derive patterns off of that. Rather then looking inwards and thinking "how would I" feel, it will look outwards and think "how would others feel".

 

[Chthonic]

In order to understand others and see where they come from, Fe will consider their experiences based off what it has observed in the past from others, what it knows about people in general, and will derive patterns off of that. Rather then looking inwards and thinking "how would I" feel, it will look outwards and think "how would others feel".

I agree with this and it explains why I am constantly misunderstood. My actions don't pattern nicely with the world at large so people take unnecessary offence where none is intended. They look at my vacant stare and decide it means intentional rudeness (based off most people) instead of understanding it means a temporary inability on my part to stay focused. If Fe patterns society at large then uses that yardstick for assessing individuals then it makes incorrect assumptions about those who don't fit in with the norm. I know what I am feeling in every moment and yet there always appears to be some know it all happy to tell me what I am feeling whilst standing outside my body.

Needless to say my Fi is stronger than my Fe

 

[Pionart]

Fe (extraverted feeling) and the nature of empathy - YouTube

 

[Paladin-X]

Empathy is related to extraversion. It is also an introjection.

Chapter 7 in Psychological Types discusses empathy at some length:

Psychological Types, by C.G. Jung

 

[doppelganger]

In order to understand others and see where they come from, Fe will consider their experiences based off what it has observed in the past from others, what it knows about people in general, and will derive patterns off of that. Rather then looking inwards and thinking "how would I" feel, it will look outwards and think "how would others feel".

You identify patterns using Ni, for example. Do Si-Fe users do the same with Si, then? And what about social norms that are inculcated in you: are these accepted as another type of pattern you use to evaluate ppl in the same way you use patterns you've identified yourself?

 

[Hitoshi-San]

I've always had trouble feeling as others feel - correct me if I'm wrong, but this is more of a feeling thing, not just Fi or Fe. Fe could possibly relate to charm or being outwardly considerate.

 

[Showbread]

You identify patterns using Ni, for example. Do Si-Fe users do the same with Si, then? And what about social norms that are inculcated in you: are these accepted as another type of pattern you use to evaluate ppl in the same way you use patterns you've identified yourself?

To an extent, yes. Usually when I feel a really deep empathy for someone it's either because of the visible distress I observe in them. Or, it's because after I find out what has happened to them I realize the implications of the tragic event. For example, I spent a year volunteering at a pediatric clinic that specialized in treating abused children. Often I would feel deep empathy for these kids; but not because I was imaging what it would be like to be abused. Usually it was because I would think about the fact that their lives were changed forever by things that were out of their control and how that was going to impact them later. Does that make sense? My empathy was based on things I knew about their situation and how that would affect them.

Because of Si, if I encounter someone who had tragic experiences similar to my life, those feelings will player a greater role in the process because I can summon them readily.

 

[alcea rosea]

Hello forum! I recently had Fe empathy described to me as the ability to feel what others feel. The INFP who said this contrasted this idea with Fi empathy which he said is the ability to imagine what he would feel if he was placed in others' shoes.

Do you agree with these ideas? How can Fe feel what another is feeling? Isn't this also an act of imagination, of putting yourself in someone else's place, like Fi?

And which function is more accurate in its empathy?

I'm not sure if empathy can be connected to neither of them. I think you can mentally understand what other people go through and then you can also feel it emotionally. Even psychopathic people can mentally understand what somebody might feel but they lack the emotional side.

I think empathy is related to mirror cells in our brain. Maybe the lack of mirror cell or disfunction of mirror cells is causing problems in empathy.

 

[INTP]

Empathy is related to extraversion. It is also an introjection.

Chapter 7 in Psychological Types discusses empathy at some length:

Psychological Types, by C.G. Jung

I think its important to mention that Jung used a bit wider definition for empathy than just relating on an emotional level. In jungian terms, you can have thinking type of empathy for example and its not the same as general term of empathy.

While projection is adjusting the image of an external object based on what is inside(hence it corresponds with introversion), introjection adjusts self according to the external object(corresponds with extraversion).

Empathy is first projection to the object, then adjusting self accordingly(introjecting). When talking in general term of empathy, emotional contents are first projected onto someone(you see what emotions the other person has based on your own interpretation of it), then self is adjusted to this(you feel the emotion of the other person). This sort of process is not based on one function alone, in fact it uses other processes as well than just cognitive functions alone.

 

[doppelganger]

To an extent, yes. Usually when I feel a really deep empathy for someone it's either because of the visible distress I observe in them. Or, it's because after I find out what has happened to them I realize the implications of the tragic event. For example, I spent a year volunteering at a pediatric clinic that specialized in treating abused children. Often I would feel deep empathy for these kids; but not because I was imaging what it would be like to be abused. Usually it was because I would think about the fact that their lives were changed forever by things that were out of their control and how that was going to impact them later. Does that make sense? My empathy was based on things I knew about their situation and how that would affect them.

Because of Si, if I encounter someone who had tragic experiences similar to my life, those feelings will player a greater role in the process because I can summon them readily.

I do that, too. I can see the consequences for them--what will happen--and that makes me sad. Although I don't necessarily think of it, it's only one step further to think how they're going to feel when those bad things happen, so it is like what Hard described as imagining what others feel in their situations.

 

[doppelganger]

I'm not sure if empathy can be connected to neither of them. I think you can mentally understand what other people go through and then you can also feel it emotionally. Even psychopathic people can mentally understand what somebody might feel but they lack the emotional side.

I think empathy is related to mirror cells in our brain. Maybe the lack of mirror cell or disfunction of mirror cells is causing problems in empathy.

What do you mean by "mirror cells"? How do they work?

 

[doppelganger]

I think its important to mention that Jung used a bit wider definition for empathy than just relating on an emotional level. In jungian terms, you can have thinking type of empathy for example and its not the same as general term of empathy.

While projection is adjusting the image of an external object based on what is inside(hence it corresponds with introversion), introjection adjusts self according to the external object(corresponds with extraversion).

Empathy is first projection to the object, then adjusting self accordingly(introjecting). When talking in general term of empathy, emotional contents are first projected onto someone(you see what emotions the other person has based on your own interpretation of it), then self is adjusted to this(you feel the emotion of the other person). This sort of process is not based on one function alone, in fact it uses other processes as well than just cognitive functions alone.

Can you unpack this idea? What else is involved in this process of projection-introjection?

And how do you think a psychopath understands feelings in others? If I use your idea of projection-introjection, it seems a psychopath would project his understanding of feelings on to others using visual and other cues, but then not introject others' feeling into himself? So is psychopathy this inability to introject?

 

[INTP]

Can you unpack this idea? What else is involved in this process of projection-introjection?

And how do you think a psychopath understands feelings in others? If I use your idea of projection-introjection, it seems a psychopath would project his understanding of feelings on to others using visual and other cues, but then not introject others' feeling into himself? So is psychopathy this inability to introject?

This issue is such complex and involves so many things that, im just going to have to tell you to google it or read some book on psychology. Like [MENTION=1493]alcea rosea[/MENTION] mentioned, it involves mirror neurons for example. You can find a lot of articles from google about the topic

 

[Showbread]

What do you mean by "mirror cells"? How do they work?

Mirror neurons are neurons that fire in the frontal lobe that enable us to experience/mirror the emotions of others.

 

[INTP]

Mirror neurons are neurons that fire in the frontal lobe that enable us to experience/mirror the emotions of others.

Its not just about emotions and there are mirror neurons elsewhere also