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ENTJ vs ESTJ

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Those infos are indeed better than the ones I hace found. Thanks! Definitely gives me some food for thought. I still have no idea which one am I though.
No problem. :)
 

Eric B

ⒺⓉⒷ
Joined
Mar 29, 2008
Messages
3,621
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
548
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Same Interaction Style (In Charge or Choleric; expressive and directive or task focused), so will appear similar on the surface level (how one approaches others in interaction).

Classic temperament combos:
Temperament and Personality

ENTJ: Pure Choleric —totally aggressive and task focused, with Ni's visions
ESTJ: ChlorMel —Just as task focused, but the Melancholy's reservedness comes out through Si's need for factual data
ESTP: ChlorSan —Just as aggressive, but the Sanguine's oppenness (from Se) makes him a bit less focused on rules and procedures.
 

Doctor Cringelord

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
20,567
MBTI Type
I
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
^ This is good. Let's just get rid of the idea that ESTJs can't be reformers, because they can be, and very often are. They just aren't likely to want to overhaul an entire system when it doesn't need to be overhauled (as you said, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"). Too much effort for too little payoff. ESTJs and ENTJs are both all about efficiency, but ESTJs are the ones who are very focused on -- and very good at -- maintaining a balance between efficiency and practicality. The question with ESTJs isn't "How should things be?", but is instead "How should things be, that is actually feasible?"


I don't like these descriptions at all, because ESTJs aren't really in the moment. The ones who make decisions primarily in the now -- as in RIGHT NOW -- are ESxPs. ESTJs think more about the immediate future (how things should be feasibly changed), as well as the past (Si, their go-to for how things should be done).

I posted about ESTJ vs ENTJ elsewhere -- let me try to find the post and drop it off here.

I've been thinking about starting a blog and creating my own type descriptions/profiles wherein I would seek to strike a healthy balance between the profiles which are gross stereotypes (i.e. over half of the descriptions online and Keirsey's profiles) and profiles which go really deep into the functions. I would still approach it in a way that discussed the cognitive functions, but I would want to make it more digestible for people with a casual interest in typology, i.e. my wife, who gets a really glazed look in her eyes when I talk too much about the functions.

I'd also like to include subtype information from socionics and discuss visual typing a bit.
 

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I've been thinking about starting a blog and creating my own type descriptions/profiles wherein I would seek to strike a healthy balance between the profiles which are gross stereotypes (i.e. over half of the descriptions online and Keirsey's profiles) and profiles which go really deep into the functions. I would still approach it in a way that discussed the cognitive functions, but I would want to make it more digestible for people with a casual interest in typology, i.e. my wife, who gets a really glazed look in her eyes when I talk too much about the functions.

I'd also like to include subtype information from socionics and discuss visual typing a bit.

You should feel free to post profiles here. We have a couple of sections on it.

MBTI/JCF Type Profiles

Enneagram Type Profiles

I expect us to be putting up a Wiki shortly.

I know what you mean about the eyes glazing over lol. I think that's what initially partially motivated me to come here :).
 

Avocado

Permabanned
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
3,794
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Same Interaction Style (In Charge or Choleric; expressive and directive or task focused), so will appear similar on the surface level (how one approaches others in interaction).

Classic temperament combos:
Temperament and Personality

ENTJ: Pure Choleric —totally aggressive and task focused, with Ni's visions
ESTJ: ChlorMel —Just as task focused, but the Melancholy's reservedness comes out through Si's need for factual data
ESTP: ChlorSan —Just as aggressive, but the Sanguine's oppenness (from Se) makes him a bit less focused on rules and procedures.

Interesting.
 

Annihilation

New member
Joined
Jul 6, 2014
Messages
11
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
1w2
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Both types have a lot in common, as they share decision making functions, but that's a topic for another thread. This is my understanding of the differences between the two:

ESTJs are practical, highly competent and the ideal employee for the majority of companies. When they're being brutally honest and bossy and hurting people's feelings, they may well notice thanks to their strong sensing side, and back off. Their Te-Si makes them extremely talented at creating highly efficient and highly practical systems based on their experience, and their Ne causes them to frequently break from the norm to attempt new ideas. Their main weakness is a lack of timing and foresight and frequently jumping into things without considering the long term consequences. Bright ESTJs make exceptional accountants, and they're often in all levels of management.

ENTJs are innovative, strategic and forceful. They have great foresight, and generally know when they do not need to act. An ENTJ is likely to get carried away in a forceful show of Se, and to hurt people through it without being fully aware of the damage they're doing. However, thanks to Ni, they'll often reflect on this later and look at it from different perspectives, inevitably realising their fault and learning from it. ENTJs are also great at evaluating the strengths and weaknesses of others, making them great at people management. Ni makes an ENTJ quite laid back, but Se drives them to be forceful, making them quite capable of a sudden complete personality turnaround.
 

Avocado

Permabanned
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
3,794
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Both types have a lot in common, as they share decision making functions, but that's a topic for another thread. This is my understanding of the differences between the two:

ESTJs are practical, highly competent and the ideal employee for the majority of companies. When they're being brutally honest and bossy and hurting people's feelings, they may well notice thanks to their strong sensing side, and back off. Their Te-Si makes them extremely talented at creating highly efficient and highly practical systems based on their experience, and their Ne causes them to frequently break from the norm to attempt new ideas. Their main weakness is a lack of timing and foresight and frequently jumping into things without considering the long term consequences. Bright ESTJs make exceptional accountants, and they're often in all levels of management.

ENTJs are innovative, strategic and forceful. They have great foresight, and generally know when they do not need to act. An ENTJ is likely to get carried away in a forceful show of Se, and to hurt people through it without being fully aware of the damage they're doing. However, thanks to Ni, they'll often reflect on this later and look at it from different perspectives, inevitably realising their fault and learning from it. ENTJs are also great at evaluating the strengths and weaknesses of others, making them great at people management. Ni makes an ENTJ quite laid back, but Se drives them to be forceful, making them quite capable of a sudden complete personality turnaround.

I see.
 

Riva

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
2,371
Enneagram
7w8
Yeah, at least I hope so :D

I know other ESTJs, who are far less dominant than my boss.
Or ESTJs who are indeed more social. One is a sales guy, who is so socially cunny, he could trick you into thinking he's an F.
In all honesty I generally do not like ESTJs. I distrust their Te (at first glance, I think they are superficial and/or judgemental), they distrust my Ni (they think I'm schemy/devious or insincere).

PS. What's so bad about the descriptions LanaBanana mentioned ?

Actually lana's one was quite good.

Taking functions into consideration and from what i have noticed estjs, since have tert Ne are usually big pic people. They approach to accomplish this big pic by putting in daily habitual work. And since they have secondary Si they can form habits to accomplish their goals. This is their strengh: Have a goal in mind and putting effort day in day out till they accomplish this, and the best part is they aren't bored by it because Si goes hand in hand with routine. They will use Te to make decisions (which are Te of course).

Entjs are different because their tert is Se. Se wants immediate results. Therefore they might get bored repeating things over and over. However their secondary is Ni which has big piture in mind. However their efforts will be more grand/creative and less phisically grounded than Si and will have to depend on Te to keep on track.
 
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