[MBTI General] Te / Fi types: define passive aggressive behaviour

[infinite]

This is it exactly, from my perspective. "Plausible deniability" is a defining factor of passive-aggression, IMO. And often the act of denying the aggression is a second act of aggression. Gosh, what kind of person are you that you saw THAT as aggressive?? Tsk tsk.

A response to that would be... "it's not your job to determine what kind of person I am". Or just simply, "I don't care what you think about me"

Glad this thread was created, because I was recently called out, by an INTP in full on shadow ESFJ mode, for "passive-aggressive behavior" -- and when I told him that I wasn't angry or hostile and that it was a misunderstanding, he said it was still passive-aggressive. However, the definition technically requires that passive-aggression be a method of expressing hostility or anger/resentment. So maybe one Fe vs. Fi definition difference would be that Fe users wouldn't care what was behind the action?

I dunno, I'm Fe user but I do care what's behind an action. That INTP was just being really weird IMO.

 

[Ivy]

A response to that would be... "it's not your job to determine what kind of person I am". Or just simply, "I don't care what you think about me"

That would be useful, if they actually said the words "what kind of person are you." But it's typically an insinuation that stops just short of actually stating anything directly. Plausible deniability.

 

[infinite]

That would be useful, if they actually said the words "what kind of person are you." But it's typically an insinuation that stops just short of actually stating anything directly. Plausible deniability.

Hmm can you give me a specific example of such insinuation?

 

[Coriolis]

I think due to indirect nature of it, it results in the person being passive-aggressive being able to effectively deny any of it if they're called out on it.

Thankfully I don't run into too much passive-agression IRL (or if I do, I'm not recognizing it as such.) When I see something like this, though - someone trying to deny something that was a P/A response, I call them on it by taking it at face value: "OK, then - so you don't have any problem with what I'm doing, and there's nothing I need to change. That's reassuring." I say it like I mean it, because I do. I gave them the opportunity to be forthright with any concerns, and they didn't take me up on it. It suggests it wasn't that big a deal to begin with. They can always say something later, which I will hear out and reconsider.

 

[OrangeAppled]

Passive-aggressive behavior tends to make me aggressive, which often makes me look like the "bad guy", which then frustrates me further. But when I get called out on my aggressiveness and try to point out what I am responding to, I can get called passive-aggressive for supposedly trying to place the blame on the other party & playing "martyr". But I'm not trying to place blame at all, just point out what I am reacting to, that the other person is not so innocent. I find myself more openly aggressive than passive-aggressive, but we all have our moments. I bring this up to illustrate how people experience passive-aggressiveness differently.

My step-dad is super passive-aggressive in the feet-dragging, pretending not to her you kind of way. He's classic unhealthy ISFP 9w8. Feet-dragging is really annoying to me.

People who instead of saying no, agree and then later make it seem like you're being difficult and demanding to get out of their agreement. Why didn't they just say no to begin with? Instead they act like a victim.

I find a lot of emotional manipulation to be passive-aggressive, where people try to obligate you to something by making it appear you are selfish if you do not. Often they do this by "giving" in ways you never asked for, with the facade of it being "free", but in their heads they are indebting you.

 

[PeaceBaby]

Bumping, since the other thread is active at this time.

 

[RobinSkye]

Hm, this makes me want to type my mom as ENFP as opposed to ENTP, then.

 

[Masokissed]

sarcasm is my preferred form of passive-aggression

 

[Evo]

By the definitions people are giving here, it seems like passive aggression is something that is subtle or indirect.

So then why do people also consider someone that explodes on you passive aggressive?

 

[D'Ascoyne]

1.) please share your definition of passive-aggressiveness.

Passive-aggressiveness is a form of lying coated in several layers of artificial sweetener designed to confuse your psycho-emotional tastebuds. Empty, toxic, flat-tasting simulacra.

 

[VagrantFarce]

I've always thought of "passive-aggression" as trying to have your cake and eat it too - instead of confronting someone directly, you find a way of doing so that a. gets your message across, but b. absolves you of having to actually enter into a confrontation and defend yourself. It's controlling and disrespectful to the other party, and speaks volumes toward your own lack of resolve.

 

[Forever]

Is this any way different than a passive aggressive Fe/Ti user?

I rest my case.

 

[Virtual ghost]

Honestly ? I don't really know, because I don't get into that kind of situations.

Scenarios:

1. I am often so far from people that I have no contact with such behaviour.
2. We just have a normal conversation that is plesant.
3. If the person is going against me in something I consider important I turn that into an open conflict where there is not room for passive-agressive behaviour.


Therefore I have hard time to tell.

 

[Amargith]

I've always thought of "passive-aggression" as trying to have your cake and eat it too - instead of confronting someone directly, you find a way of doing so that a. gets your message across, but b. absolves you of having to actually enter into a confrontation and defend yourself. It's controlling and disrespectful to the other party, and speaks volumes toward your own lack of resolve.

That's different from the 'plausible deniability' thing that [MENTION=2]Ivy[/MENTION] pointed to, right? Dropping a bunch of dishes, as was suggested as an example on the first page, in someone's bedroom is hardly deniable

Personally, I use this method when direct confrontation has repeatedly failed in the other person' wanting to resolve things or history has taught me that me expressing grievances with this person has no effect, because they could care less.

Then I'll gladly make my point using this as a prop. Actions, including ignoring someone's repeated pleas, do have consequences, and it can be an amazingly effective tool to actually get people to respond properly, without even realising it as they're often the kind of people who don't respond to other people's wishes, but to their own welfare, comfort and survival. Adjusting the environment, so they benefit directly from giving whatever they were bugging you with a rest, works brilliantly. As does taking away the reward they get from performing that behaviour by actually making the process that inefficient that it loses its appeal - like dragging your feet on something they're non-stop trying to force you to do (and refuse to take a 'no' on), or flat-out making it a pain in the ass to each time go through with you.

Cognitive science, ftw

 

[entropie]

I think passive-aggressiveness lies in 95% of the cases only in the eyes of the receiver not so much the allegiated sender.

 

[D'Ascoyne]

I think passive-aggressiveness lies in 95% of the cases only in the eyes of the receiver not so much the allegiated sender.

An interesting thought. But the thing about passive-aggressive behaviour is that it is designed to be deflective. That's the passive part.

 

[Frosty]

I really just see passive aggression as cowardice. I mean, I am passive aggressive at times-and maybe one of the reasons I have such a problem with it is that I can recognize that tendency for sarcasm and snark and cynicism in myself... And to see it just thrown about as a 'tool' as a weapon intentionally, it just is something that sits wrong with me.

The most noticeable form of passive aggression-the most irritating to me... Is this sort of avoidance shit-this sort of I want to say this to you but I want to mitigate the risk to myself... So I am going to try to win both ways and say this in a potentially 'arguably joking' manner, so that if you try to claim that I am being serious or malicious I can turn it back around on you. And then you CANT argue-you CANT have a say... Without everything being under this sort of glaze of doubt. And I mean, really my radar from that stuff is sensitive-and my defense is blunt generally and harsh and direct. And I refuse to change that-at that point I am just sort of expecting things to deteriorate... But really, I just cannot let that stuff go if I see it. Fucking power plays. Just awful.

Just say what you need to say. Really I am under the belief that you can find a way to say most anything to anyone in a half decent manner-always pleasant... No... But decent, hopefully, hopefully as decently as possible. Why be more of a dick about anything than you have to be-that is what passive aggression is to me- using a situation-going and doing something that is beyond necessary for a situation, because it will somehow benefit you-it will somehow 'get' whatever it is you are looking for from the other person.

I mean I just think it is nasty and manipulative and cowardly-and really truthfully, it is one of the most appauling things a person can be/do.