ENTJ's are disliked?

[Maverick]

So I gather your conclusions thus far are that ENTJs are disliked because people are jealous or insecure, and that you shouldn't discuss your MBTI type with people who don't know you well?

Why does this question sound like a value judgment?

I.E. "You're so full of yourself you think the whole world has a problem and not you"

No, in all honesty, if I really thought that I wouldn't be writing here. That may be hard for you to believe considering your preconceptions about ENTJ's but you'll just have to take it at face value.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

The 'Me' part referred to "It's not that I like them, I just like having people around". This indicates that he doesn't see them as people either - just his own personal entourage to feed what he needs; "Now I'm having to go out more to find others."

Isn't that extroversion? If a person needs other people as an extrovert, then they take what they can get and gradually evolve into spending time with the ones they prefer. I'm extremely introverted, so my filtering system tends to be either no one or the ones I like. It is common with extroverts to filter using 'whoever is around' or the ones I like. That isn't selfish, it's just personality style. Even if he is selfish and all that you say, there is no indication that his coworkers are any less so. The lack of greeting crap is very passive aggressive and I thought he was pretty generous in his assessment of them.

People by nature are nastier in groups than as individuals because there is less personal accountability.

To me, that embodies Te. The need to fill the world the way it should be (according to them.) And if it isn't? Well, I'll just fix it. My GF has a very similar view, except woe to they who step on her vision instead (INTJ) of a more generalised view. Funny enough, now I can really see the weak Fi that ENTJs are suppose to have... something I've never really been able to understand.

I'm guessing his coworkers are projecting personal issues onto him.

 

[Maverick]

To me, that embodies Te. The need to fill the world the way it should be (according to them.) And if it isn't? Well, I'll just fix it. My GF has a very similar view, except woe to they who step on her vision instead (INTJ) of a more generalised view. Funny enough, now I can really see the weak Fi that ENTJs are suppose to have... something I've never really been able to understand.

No, it's not about that. It's about the fact that you can't get along with everyone, but that doesn't mean that professionally you don't have to deal with them. For me, in a job, I put my feelings aside and try to treat people the same. I don't particularly like them, but that doesn't stop them from treating them with a minimum amount of respect.

 

[Maverick]

Isn't that extroversion? If a person needs other people as an extrovert, then they take what they can get and gradually evolve into spending time with the ones they prefer. I'm extremely introverted, so my filtering system tends to be either no one or the ones I like. It is common with extroverts to filter using 'whoever is around' or the ones I like. That isn't selfish, it's just personality style. Even if he is selfish and all that you say, there is no indication that his coworkers are any less so. The lack of greeting crap is very passive aggressive and I thought he was pretty generous in his assessment of them.

Thanks, you're giving me really good insight.

As a sidenote, some people close to me met them once and both told me "these people are sharks".

 

[Chaselation]

Are we absolutely sure that MBTI types are about how we are and not how we want to be?

The answer to that depends entirely on how one answers the questions. Many people have difficulty being objective. (INTPs included) If your not objective then the resulting type will reflect that.

All typing aside there are still intangibles not captured by type that have a lot to do with a persons likability. My boss is an ENTJ he is well liked and respected by myself and most of my co-workers. The ones that don't like him are people I have no use for as a rule. He has improved his people skillz with age and I think that may be a factor in peoples perception of him.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

No, in all honesty, if I really thought that I wouldn't be writing here. That may be hard for you to believe considering your preconceptions about ENTJ's but you'll just have to take it at face value.

It's true that I do have preconceptions about ENTJs, but I haven't pulled them out of a hat. I have been friends with ENTJs before. One of them I am still fairly friendly with, though we have drifted apart as you do. I'm not saying that all ENTJs automatically have a problem as a result of being ENTJ. I've simply tried to answer your question as to why ENTJs can be disliked based on my personal experience. It's an issue I've given a lot of thought to thanks to the afore-mentioned friendships.

 

[JivinJeffJones]

In some ways humans are the most insecure little critters scurrying about on the planet. Personality types that don't specifically cater to insecurities will be disliked, I'm guessing. In a way I would agree with your assessment.

Yeah. I have issues, you have issues, we all have issues. Sometimes these issues make us see things that aren't actually there. Sometimes they make us extra sensitive to things that are actually there.

 

[ptgatsby]

No, it's not about that. It's about the fact that you can't get along with everyone, but that doesn't mean that professionally you don't have to deal with them. For me, in a job, I put my feelings aside and try to treat people the same. I don't particularly like them, but that doesn't stop them from treating them with a minimum amount of respect.

Well, then it's decided. It's them, not you. It's not type related. It's their personal problems. There is nothing you can do about it. People suck, are petty, etc.

So replace them as much as you can! Work around them when you can't. Just keep doing what you are doing, then later deal with people sabotaging you. It won't matter much anyway, if you are advancing, though it may come out if you ever move on top of the group. But you can always take a sidestep to a new company.

(I realise this sounds tongue in cheek, but I'm actually dead serious. If they really are like that, there is nothing you can do. And if you didn't bring it on yourself, then it shouldn't happen again. Problem solved! There is only a problem if you are the source of the problem, and therefore transfer it wherever you go. Since that isn't the problem, you'll just have to struggle through the present.)

 

[Maverick]

Well, then it's decided. It's them, not you. It's not type related. It's their personal problems. There is nothing you can do about it. People suck, are petty, etc.

So replace them as much as you can! Work around them when you can't. Just keep doing what you are doing, then later deal with people sabotaging you. It won't matter much anyway, if you are advancing, though it may come out if you ever move on top of the group. But you can always take a sidestep to a new company.

(I realise this sounds tongue in cheek, but I'm actually dead serious. If they really are like that, there is nothing you can do. And if you didn't bring it on yourself, then it shouldn't happen again. Problem solved! There is only a problem if you are the source of the problem, and therefore transfer it wherever you go. Since that isn't the problem, you'll just have to struggle through the present.)

Thanks for the advice, mate. There's a high turnover rate and last year it was the complete oppposite: great atmosphere, lots of socializing outside work, coworkers were happy for me when I did things well, etc. But nearly all of them left. I guess the true problem is realizing that something bothers me and I can't do anything about it, I just have to endure patiently.

 

[ptgatsby]

Thanks for the advice, mate. There's a high turnover rate and last year it was the complete oppposite: great atmosphere, lots of socializing outside work, coworkers were happy for me when I did things well, etc. But nearly all of them left. I guess the true problem is realizing that something bothers me and I can't do anything about it, I just have to endure patiently.

Yup, cultural changes are very hard. This is especially true for leaders (or leaders by personality)! My best advice is not to take it personally and just take pride in your work - not that you don't already but just focus on it more.

The other piece of advice is, assuming you are PMing or anything similar, really focus on helping those under you advance. It worked wonders with one of my bosses, who wasn't ENTJ (Probably INTJ, maybe ISTJ)... simply helping others advance and achieve their potential will make you many friends. In the end, they'll help you more and support you more than your peers, which are competing against you, possibly could. It worked on me, I can tell you that!

(Course, don't try to turn them into mini ENTJs, but if you have influence on reviews, etc, go the extra mile in preparing them. And of course, beware the stress that can cause the negative ENTJ traits come out!)

 

[PuddleRiver]

Signifying nothing, I suppose, but just want you to know that not all ENTJs are disliked. My hubby's ENTJ and he's wonderful. Most people that know him love him. I'm the one that's not liked much. Too aloof, cool and distant and all that jazz.

If they only knew.

Edit: And weird, how could I forget weird.

 

[Xander]

Maverick,

You sound like an ENTJ who prefers positive feedback. Do you give positive feedback? (Sounds odd I know but I've a preference for positive feedback but I tend to give negative feedback due to having a sister and a mother who were negative feedback people.)

What I'm thinking is that if you are positive feedback then you need to watch for when your nudging for a pat on the head (like many dogs do and like many positive feedback (I'm going to call this PFb or I'm going to get tired of typing) people do) cause that could be seen as manipulating if your taking a leading role.

As for leading, if your finding yourself put out on a limb then try to lead from within the group. Either that or let someone else lead and be their counsel and best worker. For me this position is natural, I don't like to lead as in be Cpt Kirk but I'd love the first officer role. Basically I was thinking that if you get shit and your normally playing the top dog then be the top dog who helps others to get into the lime light. The idea being is that people can't call you for being a glory hound (these dog analogies are endless!!) if your helping others to grab the glory through your superior organisational abilities.

Just a thought or two.

 

[proteanmix]

I think it's a real pity though because the MBTI is geared towards understanding others, yet many types into it seem to dislike ENTJ's. It's as if they judge everything from their own type and consider leading "bad". There's even a kind of emotional revenge/envy - sort of "you may be the leaders but you won't get me to like you".

...

Some people have even tried to make me feel guilty about leading as if it was a "bad" personality trait to have. As if someone who wants to take charge and have power is necessarily evil, because no one should lead and everyone should be equal. That's what I was brought up to believe at least.

In the end, I've found that *not* leading and introverting ironically makse people follow me much more. In fact, when I don't want people to lead they all seem to come in masses... and I'm like "Nah, I just want to do my own thing" and they end up asking me "please! you're the only one that could do it!"

I agree, although I don't feel a need to lead, I usually end up doing it. Even when it's going to the movies with my friends or choosing a restaurant to eat at. The more I hang around people aware of MBTI (mostly INs), the less accepted I feel. Most other people, and I suppose that would be Ss, accept my talents for what they are. I feel less judged about what I do naturally. And then when I'd read the MBTI forums (esp. INTPc) it was even worse! I felt like a co-conspirator with the SJ Evil Empire. And it's funny, I'm the type of person that meshes very well within existing social systems, but just because I fit doesn't mean I hold the opinions of the most people. It's kind of subversive in a way, like having an inside man that no one suspects of anything, but no one wants to utilize that resource.

In the end, all I can do is be myself and I'm not going to be made to feel guilty about being me (Fe and all). So it's actually helping to make more confident in myself and my abilities.

 

[The Ü™]

I have a friend on MySpace who typed herself as an ENTJ, but she's very artistically inclined and writes some really beautiful and vivid poetry.

 

[LadyInWaiting]

I really don't have any more problems with ENTJs than I do most other types. In fact, I get along well with TJs in general. I love having the opportunity to actually talk to you Maverick.

I have a question. Do you let others lead in areas where you are weak? I assume you probably work vigorously to improve perceived weaknesses (that's something I like about NTJs), but in the meantime, can you let others lead? Or do you have to be in charge even if you're not the best-equipped.

From what you've said, it seems like you are comfortable with hierarchy, so you can deal with the fact that there are people in a superior position, if they have earned it. But at the same time, you'll keep working and going until you're in that position. Is that true? So if I take it out of the workplace. ...What about if you encounter someone with a deeper, more useful understanding of group values and how to deal with people? Do you bow to their wisdom, do you insist on leading, or do you let them lead while learning from them?

 

[Methofelis]

I have no issues with ENTJs as a whole. I did meet one I disliked, but that'll happen with any type. My friend George is an ENTJ and a fire marshal, and aside from the fact that we do not agree on his polyamory, we're cool.

I seem to get along well with I/ENTJs. But I've been told that I'm a bitch on many an occasion, so who knows.

 

[reason]

I don't always like ENTJs even when I appreciate them. Though mostly I like and appreciate them.

 

[substitute]

So what's the point in telling anyone you're an ENTJ? Are ENTJ's fundamentally disliked, and how to resolve the paradox of a personality that is disliked yet manages to become a leader so often?

I've learned the real value of leaders, good leaders, and let me tell you, as a proto-monk (heheh) I have to do an awful lot of obeying of lots of different people, and there is NOTHING as awesome as a leader and just a human being, as an ENTJ monk! It's like I just think something, and we only need to make eye contact, and before we know it, we've made it happen.

I've also had the only happy relationship I ever had in my life with an ENTJ. My business partner is ENTJ and we have great laughs, I've no reservations about him and would trust him with my life - I sometimes worry this doesn't go both ways (he doesn't entirely trust me and sometimes thinks I'm more fickle/unreliable than I really am), and it means a lot to me if I get signs of his respect.

ENTJ is actually my favourite type, I have a sort of simbiotic relationship with them, and my life and world feels empty without one nearby. I've got along great with every one I've met (granted, it has been said that it's because I'm one of the few who isn't shit-scared of them), and if anything I have a great prejudice towards them because of this! I can't say anything about other people's prejudices or other types, but I know that from my POV, ENTP + ENTJ = world domination*
<grin>

Mind you Maverick, that avatar doesn't exactly say 'cuddly and approachable', does it?

*that is, total pwnage of anything we set out to do together

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Mind you Maverick, that avatar doesn't exactly say 'cuddly and approachable', does it?

It does for me. That's what I think when I look at it along with a few beat-em-ups, wrastle, scoogy, bite, play... ya know, good furry fun

 

[SolitaryWalker]

So what's the point in telling anyone you're an ENTJ? Are ENTJ's fundamentally disliked, and how to resolve the paradox of a personality that is disliked yet manages to become a leader so often?

Machiavelli taught that it is always better to be feared than loved. Most people are not able to think for themselves and will accept anyone who can take charge and give them what they need in order to keep their head afloat. He also provided several quality arguments for why you're better off making others fear you than love you on your quest for power.

You dont need for people to genuinely like you in order to empower yourself, you just need for them to pretend that they do, and ENTJs tend to be very proficient at that.