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[Ni] Can You Tell Me How You Explain Your Ni Perceptions?

Evo

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I'm mostly wondering how Ni Doms explain what's in their head. But anyone can answer.

Do you have to sit quietly for long periods of time?

I have blocked out my Ni for so long, because I have refused to go by "hunches," without them being backed up by proof.

But I no longer want to ignore the intuitions that I get.

Sometimes when I go to do something, I'll think "Oh I should pick this up first" or something like that, and I ignore that hunch (or whatever you want to call it.)

And when I'm explaining something to someone, I will have a weird source of internal pressure come up. And it's like I know I should sit and listen to that pressure or thought that's trying to emerge, but I feel like it takes a while. And don't always have a place to go to be quiet.

How do Ni doms function like this? Does this happen to you? How do you explain your thoughts in a concise way, when they do surface?
 

Opal

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My type is currently in dispute, but as I still identify as INJ I'll give it a shot.

My perception/understanding of intuition is in knowing without working, leaping from the question to the answer. The question can be subconscious, something that registered but that I never actively thought through. Depending on the person to whom I explain myself I either state the conclusion and let them assess it, or ask questions that logically direct them to my conclusion from their current understanding.

In many cases, though, if a thought/sense does emerge during conversation the way you described, I'll hold it under the surface to evaluate later. I try not to externalize my thought processes.
 

Evo

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My type is currently in dispute, but as I still identify as INJ I'll give it a shot.

My perception/understanding of intuition is in knowing without working, leaping from the question to the answer. The question can be subconscious, something that registered but that I never actively thought through. Depending on the person to whom I explain myself I either state the conclusion and let them assess it, or ask questions that logically direct them to my conclusion from their current understanding.

In many cases, though, if a thought/sense does emerge during conversation the way you described, I'll hold it under the surface to evaluate later. I try not to externalize my thought processes.

Ok. Yea, this is helpful.

But even here. I am getting the feeling that I know something that I just haven't thought through yet. Almost like...if I were to sit for a while, and maybe even write my thoughts out on the subject....I could come to a more concrete insight.

Like I know, that I know what you're saying....but it's like I don't give myself enough alone time to process it or something. I just don't it formulated in words.

How do you go from thought to words?

I guess what I don't relate to is the ability to have patience to do this.

Do you have a lot of patience? It seems like the emerging of a thought takes too long to examine and incorporate immediately into a conversation.

I would think you have to prepare what you're going to say quite a lot, no?

And if so....how do you go about new experiences?
 

Opal

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Ok. Yea, this is helpful.

But even here. I am getting the feeling that I know something that I just haven't thought through yet. Almost like...if I were to sit for a while, and maybe even write my thoughts out on the subject....I could come to a more concrete insight.

Like I know, that I know what you're saying....but it's like I don't give myself enough alone time to process it or something. I just don't it formulated in words.

How do you go from thought to words?

I guess what I don't relate to is the ability to have patience to do this.

Do you have a lot of patience? It seems like the emerging of a thought takes too long to examine and incorporate immediately into a conversation.

How I translate thoughts into words... well, usually my understanding takes on a sort of indistinct model, like an abstract sense of forces that come together to make a certain shape (that I don't ascribe colors or other visual attributes to, but still have a sort of three-dimensional sense of) and I attempt to describe that model in terms that make sense to the listener/reader. I've practiced creative writing for the last 12 years, which has helped my verbal expression tremendously. It used to feel like there was an impenetrable barrier between my mind and others', and for a long time I accepted that as a fact of life.

I have some degree of patience, but more than anything I'm practiced in my own conceptual-to-verbal translation. I do have an easier time composing my thoughts outside of the flow of physical conversation though. I often find myself messaging people after physical conversations to amend some of the points I made or offer a more adequate response to something I opted out of answering.


I would think you have to prepare what you're going to say quite a lot, no?

And if so....how do you go about new experiences?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. I don't actively compose sentences in my head before meeting someone, but I will absently ponder concepts on my own time and then pull them out in discussion if they seem relevant.
 

Evo

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How I translate thoughts into words... well, usually my understanding takes on a sort of indistinct, fluid visual model (visual for lack of a closer descriptor) and I attempt to describe that model in terms that make sense to the listener/reader. I've practiced creative writing for the last 12 or so years, which has helped my verbal expression tremendously. It used to feel like there was an impenetrable barrier between my mind and others', and for a long time I accepted that as a fact of life.

I have some degree of patience, but more than anything I'm practiced in my own conceptual-to-verbal translation. I do have an easier time composing my thoughts outside of the flow of physical conversation though. I often find myself messaging people after physical conversations to amend some of the points I made or offer a more adequate response to something I opted out of answering.

By creative writing, do you mean like poetry and short stories?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. I don't actively compose sentences in my head before meeting someone, but I will absently ponder concepts and then pull them out in discussion if they seem relevant.

Yea, that's sort of what I mean. I don't think I mean actively doing this.

Like I seem to have to just wonder off in thought about certain subjects for a while, to really be able to express them concretely. Like I have to follow the line of thought out in my head. But to do this, I have to be alone and it needs to be quiet. If I do this, then my thoughts seem to be more formulated. And I can externalize them in the moment with people in conversation.

Otherwise, if I have not sat on an idea for a while, I think that's where my words can get misunderstood. Cause the line of thought is still raw, I have not followed it to its end yet.

And what I mean by new experiences is, like talking about a subject you haven't discussed much with other people, or even given that much thought to. Are you maybe more reserved in those situations?
 

Opal

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By creative writing, do you mean like poetry and short stories?

Poetry and symbol-heavy flash fiction, mostly. I began with song lyrics when I was younger though.

Yea, that's sort of what I mean. I don't think I mean actively doing this.

Like I seem to have to just wonder off in thought about certain subjects for a while, to really be able to express them concretely. Like I have to follow the line of thought out in my head. But to do this, I have to be alone and it needs to be quiet. If I do this, then my thoughts seem to be more formulated. And I can externalize them in the moment with people in conversation.

Otherwise, if I have not sat on an idea for a while, I think that's where my words can get misunderstood. Cause the line of thought is still raw, I have not followed it to its end yet.

That makes sense about formulating your opinion/stance before sharing it. If I haven't pondered an idea to completion I may still offer a sort of instinctive response, but it'll often click later that day or in days after that it wasn't true to my understanding of the world; maybe I considered a past event that wasn't an adequate sample for the principle being discussed, or misinterpreted something they said in the moment and tried to make an oblique commentary on it that got lost in translation. There are plenty of factors that muddy my output in physical conversation, so reflection and amendment often feels necessary.

And what I mean by new experiences is, like talking about a subject you haven't discussed much with other people, or even given that much thought to. Are you maybe more reserved in those situations?

It depends on who I'm with. I happily speculate about new ideas with certain people whose minds I trust and whose views of me I feel are firmly positive, but in a situation with more than two (very trusted) friends I'll opt out of conversation while trying to further my understanding.


Also, I amended my description of my "visualization" of ideas if that's interesting to you.
 

Evo

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Poetry and symbol-heavy flash fiction, mostly. I began with song lyrics when I was younger though.

Hmm. Interesting. So did you take classes on that?


Also, I amended my description of my "visualization" of ideas if that's interesting to you.

Yea, I relate to that description more than the first. Thank you for your input!
 

Alea_iacta_est

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I explain it usually by saying rather brusquely, "I see something you don't.", "You have to look at the problem in a different angle/light.", or simply "Just trust me, alright?".

I feel as though the differences in Ni (Fe or Te paired) seems to be where the personalized integration lies.

INFJs, for instance, experience a personalized understanding when it comes to the aspects of humanity, emotionalism, and literary symbolism due to the fact that their Ni is geared toward Fe related tasks.

Opposingly, INTJs experience a personalized understanding when it comes to the mechanical realm of the universe, the technical information, and abstract theories due to the fact that their Ni is geared toward Te related tasks. Specifically, I find myself not simply understanding ideas but "integrating" with ideas. Take for example molecular geometry, which states that electron orbitals will always be as far away from other orbitals as possible. I understand logically that this is due to the fact that negative charges repel and that the electrons emit a negative charge, but I also seem to "visualize" or more aptly, build a mental landscape where I can watch this unfurl in my mind, visually understanding how this works and tying it into the real world simultaneously, being able to see how this interaction affects the world around me, creating a deeper feeling of understanding than just the mechanical, logical understanding indicative of just Tx. This could be due to the dynamic attitude of Ni (yes, it's socionics, it's applicable) and how it sees how things are taking place in the moment, in the future, and in the past all around me.

I also must add that Ni seems to be incredibly quick when it is operating, to the point where it is already ahead of my own reasoning and working on some sort of other process in my mind. It often builds these frameworks in my mind so quickly that I don't even know if they are correct without having to trail behind its wake with Te to make sure the path it is creating is safe and veritable for the real world. I think Se inferior also plays a role here in that I get a slight twinge if something Ni synthesized overlooks something, but I often overlook this twinge and end up realizing it was correct.
 

grey_beard

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I'm mostly wondering how Ni Doms explain what's in their head. But anyone can answer.

Do you have to sit quietly for long periods of time?

I have blocked out my Ni for so long, because I have refused to go by "hunches," without them being backed up by proof.

But I no longer want to ignore the intuitions that I get.

Sometimes when I go to do something, I'll think "Oh I should pick this up first" or something like that, and I ignore that hunch (or whatever you want to call it.)

And when I'm explaining something to someone, I will have a weird source of internal pressure come up. And it's like I know I should sit and listen to that pressure or thought that's trying to emerge, but I feel like it takes a while. And don't always have a place to go to be quiet.

How do Ni doms function like this? Does this happen to you? How do you explain your thoughts in a concise way, when they do surface?
[MENTION=14015]Urarienev[/MENTION] --

I just ... *know*.

I describe it -- to myself, others wouldn't get it -- as "I just reach down inside, and feel around in the grab bag for whatever matches the situation or item I'm considering -- and when I touch it, or my hand grabs it -- I just *KNOW* -- just like when you're trying to remember something, and a split second before conscious awareness of what you'd forgotten surges into your awareness, your mind tells you -- "I 'found' it!" -- it's the same thing, only it is recognition, not remembrance. But at the same time, it's as though you'd always already known it anyway, even if it's the first time you've dealt with it or seen it.
 

Evo

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I also must add that Ni seems to be incredibly quick when it is operating, to the point where it is already ahead of my own reasoning and working on some sort of other process in my mind. It often builds these frameworks in my mind so quickly that I don't even know if they are correct without having to trail behind its wake with Te to make sure the path it is creating is safe and veritable for the real world.

I think this ^ is really what I meant. Ni will quickly conceptualize, and I'm left having to think through everything anyways. And that's cause I am not sure that I can trust all of the framework produced by Ni. I have to make sure everything is proven first.

I think Se inferior also plays a role here in that I get a slight twinge if something Ni synthesized overlooks something, but I often overlook this twinge and end up realizing it was correct.

This may be even closer to what I was trying to describe though. But can you expand on this some more? I often feel like I am going along ok, but then will sort of get a sudden notion that I'm missing a piece of information.

So have you learned to listen to this "twinge" more? And can you describe what it seems to feel like?
 

Evo

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it's just like when you're trying to remember something, and a split second before conscious awareness of what you'd forgotten surges into your awareness, your mind tells you -- "I 'found' it!" -- it's the same thing, only it is recognition, not remembrance. But at the same time, it's as though you'd always already known it anyway, even if it's the first time you've dealt with it or seen it.

Yea, I understand the recognition part. And it does always seem like it's already known information...

I think what I have a hard time explaining is what I've found, not how I found it.

Like alot of the time, my wording or sentence structure is still too abstract when explaining my ideas to others.
 

Alea_iacta_est

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I think this ^ is really what I meant. Ni will quickly conceptualiz, and I'm left having to think through everything anyways. And that's cause I am not sure that I can trust all of the framework produced by Ni. I have to make sure everything is proven first.



This may be even closer to what I was trying to describe though. But can you expand on this some more? I often feel like I am going along ok, but then will sort of get a sudden notion that I'm missing a piece of information.

So have you learned to listen to this "twinge" more? And can you describe what it seems to feel like?

I have learned to listen to it more, and it has helped me keep my Ni running healthily.

In the perspective of solving a problem, I will glance at the problem and Ni will begin "whirring" so to speak, it picks up speed and begins to figure out the answer before my own reasoning can (of course Ni is consciously controlled by Ni Ego types, but it focuses more on the route that seems to get somewhere the best at first glance rather than the actual route that gets you to the correct place sometimes). I'll think I have the perfect way to solve the problem through what Ni has postulated, and then something just doesn't feel right. Specifically, it feels as though I have overstepped or overlooked something, that I haven't accounted for something. In the midst of the problem-solving, I often find myself realizing what I have forgotten, and it is usually some obvious mistake or obvious rule I didn't abide by. Due to the fact that my Se is unconscious, I unconsciously feel that something isn't right with what Ni is doing, but I have to manually figure out what that is specifically that is triggering it.
 

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Yea, I understand the recognition part. And it does always seem like it's already known information...

I think what I have a hard time explaining is what I've found, not how I found it.

Like alot of the time, my wording or sentence structure is still too abstract when explaining my ideas to others.
[MENTION=14015]Urarienev[/MENTION] --

Metaphors or similes, particularly to visual objects or structures, or comparing to relationships of known entities in the real world, are often helpful.
 

Evo

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I have learned to listen to it more, and it has helped me keep my Ni running healthily.

In the perspective of solving a problem, I will glance at the problem and Ni will begin "whirring" so to speak, it picks up speed and begins to figure out the answer before my own reasoning can (of course Ni is consciously controlled by Ni Ego types, but it focuses more on the route that seems to get somewhere the best at first glance rather than the actual route that gets you to the correct place sometimes). I'll think I have the perfect way to solve the problem through what Ni has postulated, and then something just doesn't feel right. Specifically, it feels as though I have overstepped or overlooked something, that I haven't accounted for something. In the midst of the problem-solving, I often find myself realizing what I have forgotten, and it is usually some obvious mistake or obvious rule I didn't abide by. Due to the fact that my Se is unconscious, I unconsciously feel that something isn't right with what Ni is doing, but I have to manually figure out what that is specifically that is triggering it.



Ugh, yep. This is my issue.

I find that interesting though, that you are attributing this sort of glitch or over looking information to unconscious Se.

I never thought of it like that. Reason being, that it feels like a very introverted thing happening. Almost like I have the overall picture, like you described, but there's something in the back of my mind, that is non verbal, and very quiet, that prods me and says "you're not finished yet," or that "you haven't accounted for a piece of info."

I thought this was me normally thinking through everything with Te....but then not listening to my Ni because it's impatient. :thinking:

I guess I'll have to think about it some more...
 

Ene

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I'm mostly wondering how Ni Doms explain what's in their head. But anyone can answer.

Do you have to sit quietly for long periods of time?

I have blocked out my Ni for so long, because I have refused to go by "hunches," without them being backed up by proof.

But I no longer want to ignore the intuitions that I get.

Sometimes when I go to do something, I'll think "Oh I should pick this up first" or something like that, and I ignore that hunch (or whatever you want to call it.)

And when I'm explaining something to someone, I will have a weird source of internal pressure come up. And it's like I know I should sit and listen to that pressure or thought that's trying to emerge, but I feel like it takes a while. And don't always have a place to go to be quiet.

How do Ni doms function like this? Does this happen to you? How do you explain your thoughts in a concise way, when they do surface?

In light of the original question, I'd like to add that in some ways Ni acts like a hidden computer program always running in the background, picking up evidences and connecting them with previously gathered bits of perceived evidences and concepts without the conscious mind actually thinking about it. It is a continuously running program, so that the user knows things he or she doesn't know they know until somebody or some thing triggers a switch (eureka moment!) and suddenly, at the speed of neurological synapses, the user knows and spits out an answer. They others may reject, because they can't trace the process of its formation. I don't sit and think. I just live and go and let the Ni program in my head do its thing. Basically, Ni dominant people don't know how they know what they know because they're not conscious of the perception, information gathering process, but depending on what they immerse themselves in, they are often very accurate. It may seem like a hunch, but it's really so much more. It's really an intricately woven system of systems that the user often lacks words to define. It's like trying to describe colors to a person without eyes or the taste of ice cream to someone who never had taste buds. I think that's why Ni users sometimes feel like they might be aliens! Haha. Just kidding. I should've said mutants.
 

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It's like trying to describe colors to a person without eyes or the taste of ice cream to someone who never had taste buds.

Yea, that's my issue. How do Ni doms convey their ideas to people in a clear way?

Do I just need to be around more people that "get me" ? lol
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Music

I think it's why I'm a composer instead of a writer, because I find Ni is often too abstract for words. Music is a great way to create structures based on core patterns which is similar to how Ni constructs a sense of reality. It also uses, but doesn't require, logical associations, which is also rather Ni-like.
 

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Yea, that's my issue. How do Ni doms convey their ideas to people in a clear way?

Do I just need to be around more people that "get me" ? lol


That helps! Haha...I know an ENTJ in real life, very strong presence, a local business owner. He no longer tries to explain it logically. He just gives people this cold, penetrating stare when they question him and says, "The Lord told me. That's how I know." He freaks a lot of people out doing that, but it's hilarious to watch. I'm not suggesting you do that, just sharing with you one ENTJ's approach, because i thought you might get a grin out of it. People get pretty worked up over him sometimes, but he really doesn't care.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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When using language to convey understanding,I feel I am most clear when I have had a great deal of time to reflect and distill my thoughts on an idea. I need to identify the core, the underlying principle, the assumptions, and then try to convey that. Each person will apply the core concept in a personal manner, but if I'm able to extract the correct underlying concept, then it will be meaningful and relevant when applied in a variety of contexts.

My sense of reality is extremely nebulous, so much so that I find almost all systems too concrete to explain it. I can see that human beings have a drive to define reality and to feel like their minds can master and dominate an understanding of it. This is true of both science and religion. It is true of dogmatic religions as well as mystical belief systems. I don't think we possess the hardware to master an understanding of reality, so I've become content to have awareness without definition. I've had deeply spiritual moments where I feel a deep connection to nature and other living things, where I felt I glimpsed eternity and felt a response. When younger I placed Christian labels on it, but now it feels like those labels are not any more relevant than any system. I could almost call myself anything from atheist, Buddhist, Christian, or pagan because I see relevance in all of those systems, but each are incomplete. Each are like children building a copy of their home with big, bright, plastic blocks. They are a lower resolution of reality.

I think the most compelling and meaningful way to communicate is simply to connect to another person and to share empathy and love. Words are much more limited than an expression in the eyes, or a moment of silence together. :)
 

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That helps! Haha...I know an ENTJ in real life, very strong presence, a local business owner. He no longer tries to explain it logically. He just gives people this cold, penetrating stare when they question him and says, "The Lord told me. That's how I know." He freaks a lot of people out doing that, but it's hilarious to watch. I'm not suggesting you do that, just sharing with you one ENTJ's approach, because i thought you might get a grin out of it. People get pretty worked up over him sometimes, but he really doesn't care.

That sounds awesome! HA! :yesss:

Yea I think it's a balance of finding people that get me, and being able to explain myself a little bit better to the ones that don't. I kind of get tired of not being understood.


When using language to convey understanding,I feel I am most clear when I have had a great deal of time to reflect and distill my thoughts on an idea. I need to identify the core, the underlying principle, the assumptions, and then try to convey that. Each person will apply the core concept in a personal manner, but if I'm able to extract the correct underlying concept, then it will be meaningful and relevant when applied in a variety of contexts.

Yea, this is what I was thinking I could do more. Like really reflecting on something before trying to explain it.

I get a feeling sometimes when I am describing an idea, that I am missing something, and have to sit with it longer before I explain anymore.

And for some reason I think I used to be better at reflecting.

So maybe my question is what type of environment is best for you to reflect in?

My sense of reality is extremely nebulous, so much so that I find almost all systems too concrete to explain it. I can see that human beings have a drive to define reality and to feel like their minds can master and dominate an understanding of it. This is true of both science and religion. It is true of dogmatic religions as well as mystical belief systems. I don't think we possess the hardware to master an understanding of reality, so I've become content to have awareness without definition. I've had deeply spiritual moments where I feel a deep connection to nature and other living things, where I felt I glimpsed eternity and felt a response. When younger I placed Christian labels on it, but now it feels like those labels are not any more relevant than any system. I could almost call myself anything from atheist, Buddhist, Christian, or pagan because I see relevance in all of those systems, but each are incomplete. Each are like children building a copy of their home with big, bright, plastic blocks. They are a lower resolution of reality.

I think the most compelling and meaningful way to communicate is simply to connect to another person and to share empathy and love. Words are much more limited than an expression in the eyes, or a moment of silence together. :)

Yea, I agree with this.

Do you think it bothers others though, with the whole having awareness without definition thing...?

Like I guess when I can't explain myself, I feel that it can take away from connecting with others in a way. So it's like I don't know how to find balance between that.
 
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