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[MBTI General] Thinking vs Feeling

Doomkid

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T vs F is not a real dichotomy: having preference for logic doesn't make you thick-skinned and having a preference for values doesn't make you thin-skinned either so what is the real difference?

should we add another layer? so that way is 32 personality types instead of 16?
 

Eugene Watson VIII

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That seems to be the problem in the first place; just that; that personality systems can't square in the exact essence of a person. They do not measure, say the amount of Te judgments compared to Fi judgements in a supposed ExTJ. You can't have one without the other, and so scales up and down all day every day depending on the situation the ExTJ is in. I'm on the fence for T and F as well since so many of one or the other apply to me, but I've (even though the conditions weren't right) am sticking to INFP.

I think 32 types would just complicate it more than simplify it. Idk.
 

Alea_iacta_est

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The dichotomy, while inherently flawed with its stereotypical basis of logic vs emotions, symbolizes a partial way we view the world.

Through feeling, we understand the worth of objects, their value.
Through thinking, we understand the use of objects, their role.
Through sensing, we understand the nature of objects, their characteristics.
Through intuition, we understand the meaning of objects, their purpose.

Therefore, the feeler knows the value of objects, and, more specifically, the introverted feeler understands their own value of objects, and the extroverted feeler understands the value of objects to others.

The thinker knows the use of objects, and more specifically, the introverted thinker understands an object's use according to their perspective, and the extroverted thinker understands an object's use according to how others' use it.
 
L

LadyLazarus

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Regarding adding another dichotomy, I think it would be smarter instead, to add more combinations in regards to functions, as some people do not fit into all of a type's prescribed functions and just end up going with what is closest to what they think they actually use. For example; my perfect function stack would go something like this: Fi Se Ne Te, under Myers-Briggs, this is impossible. Thus, I went with ISFP as it is closest function-wise, but it is by no means a perfect match. It may over complicate things a lot but I think it could really improve the system.It would give a much larger berth and may therefore encompass an individual who say leads with Fi and has aux use of Ti(and as so may appear to be on the border of T and F). Just don't ask me how I think it would work.

In reality, everyone can use both Thinking and Feeling processes, some may be better at it/closer to the line between them however.Thinking and feeling have nothing to do with a person's level of sensitivity, those are stereotypes, level of sensitivity is something unique to each individual.IMO dichotomies are not the way to go for typing, I find them rather useless, functions are much more in depth.
 

INTP

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Its about attitudes of the conscious mind, in other words habitual/instinctual/automatic ways of consciously reacting to things. Feeling types has a feeling attitude, they instinctively react by evaluating what something is worth and then maybe try to define it and process it logically more consciously. Thinking types on the other hand react by automatically defining things and processing it via logic, and then maybe evaluating what it is worth more consciously. This kind of view doesent really fit with MBTIs definition of T types, because an INTJ for example automatically reacts with intuition, not thinking, but the thinking process is more conscious for an INTJ than it is for an INFP for example. That is if the two persons are similarly developed, because an INTJ can have undeveloped thinking and an INFP can have developed thinking, but this requires more from the INFP because T is the inferior, while for INTJ its the aux.

Also there is this thing called the attitude of the unconscious, which i wont go explaining now, but i would suggest reading at least this; http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Psychological_Types but its better if you would just read the whole book.
 
W

WALMART

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Believe me: there is a class of person that sees evidence and changes belief thusly, and there is a class of person that sees evidence and presumes some foolery underlies it.

I don't know if it's indicative of anything type related (it is), but some variation of the mind is at play.
 

INTP

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The dichotomy, while inherently flawed with its stereotypical basis of logic vs emotions, symbolizes a partial way we view the world.

Through feeling, we understand the worth of objects, their value.
Through thinking, we understand the use of objects, their role.
Through sensing, we understand the nature of objects, their characteristics.
Through intuition, we understand the meaning of objects, their purpose.

Therefore, the feeler knows the value of objects, and, more specifically, the introverted feeler understands their own value of objects, and the extroverted feeler understands the value of objects to others.

The thinker knows the use of objects, and more specifically, the introverted thinker understands an object's use according to their perspective, and the extroverted thinker understands an object's use according to how others' use it.

I think you only got the feeling thing right. When trying to figure out a use of an object, there is also intuition involved, because you need to see the possibilities that the object has, that is if the use of the object is not already known(in which case its just a matter of definition, hammer can be defined by "that tool that you hit things with"). Sensing tells us that something is, its just what gets through your sensory perception(eyes ears and skin), it doesent say anything about the nature of the perception, just tells that there is something. Again your definition of intuition is mixed with thinking, in order to understand the nature/purpose of something, you need to define it.
 

á´…eparted

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Thinking and feeling have nothing to do with logic.

Honestly, I think EVERYONE has a preference for logic (it wouldn't make any sense for anyone to go against it with intention), but it's a matter of how well they are able to use and be logical.
 

rav3n

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Thinking and feeling have nothing to do with logic.

Honestly, I think EVERYONE has a preference for logic (it wouldn't make any sense for anyone to go against it with intention), but it's a matter of how well they are able to use and be logical.
Thinking and feeling are both rational functions/dichotomies where T relies on logic and F sources from social values. If you wish to include attitudes, chop each T and F apple and open them up, where each half represents introverted or extraverted focus.
 

Doomkid

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Thinking and feeling have nothing to do with logic.

Honestly, I think EVERYONE has a preference for logic (it wouldn't make any sense for anyone to go against it with intention), but it's a matter of how well they are able to use and be logical.

I disagree there are some people who DO NOT have a preference for logic, and its when I got the worst arguments over, however that does not necessarily mean the person is touchy-feely as mbti says, you get what I'm saying?
 

Doomkid

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Thinking and feeling are both rational functions/dichotomies where T relies on logic and F sources from social values.

sorry lady that's bullshit and it's exactly why I opened this thread. Social values and logic are NOT dichotomies, you can have one without affecting the other
 

HBIC

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T vs F is not a real dichotomy: having preference for logic doesn't make you thick-skinned and having a preference for values doesn't make you thin-skinned either so what is the real difference?

should we add another layer? so that way is 32 personality types instead of 16?

All we need, even more types to be confused with :dry:

That seems to be the problem in the first place; just that; that personality systems can't square in the exact essence of a person. They do not measure, say the amount of Te judgments compared to Fi judgements in a supposed ExTJ. You can't have one without the other, and so scales up and down all day every day depending on the situation the ExTJ is in. I'm on the fence for T and F as well since so many of one or the other apply to me, but I've (even though the conditions weren't right) am sticking to INFP.

I think 32 types would just complicate it more than simplify it. Idk.

Precisely.

Regarding adding another dichotomy, I think it would be smarter instead, to add more combinations in regards to functions, as some people do not fit into all of a type's prescribed functions and just end up going with what is closest to what they think they actually use. For example; my perfect function stack would go something like this: Fi Se Ne Te, under Myers-Briggs, this is impossible. Thus, I went with ISFP as it is closest function-wise, but it is by no means a perfect match. It may over complicate things a lot but I think it could really improve the system.It would give a much larger berth and may therefore in encompass an individual who say leads with Fi and has aux use of Ti(and as so may appear to be on the border of T and F). Just don't ask me how I think it would work.

In reality, everyone can use both Thinking and Feeling processes, some may be better at it/closer to the line between them however.Thinking and feeling have nothing to do with a person's level of sensitivity, those are stereotypes, level of sensitivity is something unique to each individual.IMO dichotomies are not the way to go for typing, I find them rather useless, functions are much more in depth.

Wholeheartly agree :rock:. How can you expect that 7 billion of people fit into those 16 order of processes?

I gave up Socionics for the time being because I trully abhor the dichtomies system. I have never been able to fit in any of the types according to them. It just doesn't work, I'm always off by two or three characteristics.

Thinking and feeling have nothing to do with logic.

Honestly, I think EVERYONE has a preference for logic (it wouldn't make any sense for anyone to go against it with intention), but it's a matter of how well they are able to use and be logical.

Actually, the opposite it's true.

I'd love to live in your world because you're damn lucky if you get to live with people like that. I have to deal with people who are uncapable of thinking straight without letting their feelings get in the way and who coldn't recognize a nice logical fact even if it were dancing butt naked in front of them.

Illogical people don't make sense, that's the whole point.

I disagree there are some people who DO NOT have a preference for logic, and its when I got the worst arguments over, however that does not necessarily mean the person is touchy-feely as mbti says, you get what I'm saying?

Oh yeah, personality forums are full of emotion driven types who try to pass off as logical thinkers. They're the worst.

sorry lady that's bullshit and it's exactly why I opened this thread. Social values and logic are NOT dichotomies, you can have one without affecting the other

YES.
 

Doomkid

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I'd love to live in your world because you're damn lucky if you get to live with people like that. I have to deal with people who are uncapable of thinking straight without letting their feelings get in the way and who coldn't recognize a nice logical fact even if it were dancing butt naked in front of them.

Illogical people don't make sense, that's the whole point.

agreed, but who said being illogical has anything to do with how much the person feels?
 

HBIC

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agreed, but who said being illogical has anything to do with how much the person feels?

Being logical requires clearity of thought, which emotions can easily cloud in a Feeler. It's not the only source of lack of logic, obviously, neither was it implied in any way.
 

prplchknz

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I'm so feelery it hurts at times. But I have extremely thick skin.
 

rav3n

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sorry lady that's bullshit and it's exactly why I opened this thread. Social values and logic are NOT dichotomies, you can have one without affecting the other
The dichotomies of MBTI are intended to evidence dominant coping strategies (conscious mind). That's why if you wish to drill down into defense mechanisms (unconscious mind but if developed with maturation, can be brought out of the unconscious mind), it's best to shift over to JCF which layers all eight cognitive functions by priority of usage. The four most often used are called dominant, auxiliary, tertiary and inferior functions which develop over maturation process. The auxiliary function is slave to the drives of the dominant function. The tertiary function is the relief function of the dominant and the inferior function, in conflict with the dominant function. Next come the four shadow functions or to use the apple analogy, the flip side of the apple in the same order as the four primary functions.
 

INTP

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Thinking and feeling have nothing to do with logic.

Honestly, I think EVERYONE has a preference for logic (it wouldn't make any sense for anyone to go against it with intention), but it's a matter of how well they are able to use and be logical.

Jung; definitions abstraction said:
There is a thinking which abstracts, just as there is abstracting feeling, sensation, and intuition, (v. these concepts). Abstracting-thinking brings into relief a content that is distinguished from other irrelevant elements by its intellectual, logical qualities. Abstracting-feeling does the same with a content characterized by feeling; similarly with sensation and intuition.

orientation said:
This term is used to denote the general principle of an attitude (q.v.). Every attitude is orientated by a certain point-of-view, no matter whether that point-of-view be conscious or unconscious. A so-called power-attitude is orientated by the view-point of ego-power exerted against oppressive influences and conditions. A thinking attitude is orientated by the principle of logic as its supreme law; a sensational attitude by the sensuous perception of given facts.

thinking said:
Thinking that is regulated by feeling, I do not regard as intuitive thinking, but as thought dependent upon feeling; it does not follow its own logical principle, but is subordinated to the principle of feeling. In such thinking the laws of logic are only ostensibly present; in reality they are suspended in favor of the aims of feeling.

Fe type said:
But nothing disturbs feeling so much as thinking. It is at once intelligible, therefore, that this type should repress thinking as much as possible. This does not mean to say that such a woman does not think at all; on the contrary, she may even think a great deal and very ably, but her thinking is never sui generis; it is, in fact, an Epimethean appendage to her feeling. What she cannot feel, she cannot consciously think. 'But I can't think what I don't feel', such a type said to me once in indignant tones. As far as feeling permits, she can think very well, but every conclusion, however logical, that might lead to a disturbance of feeling is rejected from the outset. It is simply not thought. And thus everything that corresponds with objective valuations is good: these things are loved or treasured; the rest seems merely to exist in a world apart.

Thinking kinda does
 

Doomkid

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it's best to shift over to JCF which layers all eight cognitive functions by priority of usage.

that's another bullshit, the hierarchy order that for example ISTJ shadow would be an ESTP, but let's live this for another thread

btw: you don't need to explain me dominant auxiliary tertiary and inferior functions, I'm aware of those
 

HBIC

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that's my point sometimes it is sometimes it isn't

As aggravating is that emotional reason may be, is less depressing than the possibility that they're just incapable of logic due to sheer lack of intellect. I'm trying to be generous here.
 
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