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Se and Si?

Wyst

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Wasn't sure where to put this thread....

I know there is 'Se' but is there such a thing as Si? How would they be different (looking for an example).

The whole smaller-case 'e' and 'i' stuff behind F and S still escapes me. Guess I haven't made it that far in understanding MBTI yet...

Help?
 

disregard

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"Extraverted Sensing occurs when we become aware of what is in the physical world in rich detail. We may be drawn to act on what we experience to get an immediate result. We notice relevant facts and occurrences in a sea of data and experiences, learning all the facts we can about the immediate context or area of focus and what goes on in that context. An active seeking of more and more input to get the whole picture may occur until all sources of input have been exhausted or something else captures our attention. Extraverted Sensing is operating when we freely follow exciting physical impulses or instincts as they come up and enjoy the thrill of action in the present moment. A oneness with the physical world and a total absorption may exist as we move, touch, and sense what is around us. The process involves instantly reading cues to see how far we can go in a situation and still get the impact we want or respond to the situation with presence."

"Introverted Sensing often involves storing data and information, then comparing and contrasting the current situation with similar ones. The immediate experience or words are instantly linked with the prior experiences, and we register a similarity or a difference—for example, noticing that some food doesn’t taste the same or is saltier than it usually is. Introverted Sensing is also operating when we see someone who reminds us of someone else. Sometimes a feeling associated with the recalled image comes into our awareness along with the information itself. Then the image can be so strong, our body responds as if reliving the experience. The process also involves reviewing the past to draw on the lessons of history, hindsight, and experience. With introverted Sensing, there is often great attention to detail and getting a clear picture of goals and objectives and what is to happen. There can be a oneness with ageless customs that help sustain civilization and culture and protect what is known and long-lasting, even while what is reliable changes."

Understanding the Eight Jungian Cognitive Processes / Eight Functions Attitudes

"Se - extraverted Sensing
Experiencing the immediate context; noticing changes and opportunities for action; being drawn to act on the physical world; accumulating experiences; scanning for visible reactions and relevant data; recognizing “what is”.

Si - introverted Sensing
Reviewing past experiences; “what is” evoking “what was”; seeking detailed information and links to what is known; recalling stored impressions; accumulating data; recognizing the way things have always been."

Cognitive Processes
 

Jeffster

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"Se - extraverted Sensing
Experiencing the immediate context; noticing changes and opportunities for action; being drawn to act on the physical world; accumulating experiences; scanning for visible reactions and relevant data; recognizing “what is”.

Si - introverted Sensing
Reviewing past experiences; “what is” evoking “what was”; seeking detailed information and links to what is known; recalling stored impressions; accumulating data; recognizing the way things have always been."

I never stop doing the first one ever, and the second one I do several times a day. :)
 

Wyst

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Thanks, Dana! :hi:
That helped out a lot.
 

dnivera

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How to experience different function-attitudes

This has probably been posted a million times already, but I haven't seen it recently. (From here)

To experience Introverted Sensation:
Pick a category of object and practice spotting it in a crowded room. Not something easy like a color, something you have to learn how to identify. For example, learn how to recognize cotton and distinguish it from other fabrics, and then try to spot all the cotton garments in a room full of people (or in your closet, if you don't want to embarrass yourself). Alternatively, learn how to identify several species of tree that live in your area, and spend an hour or so walking around identifying each kind of tree that you come across. Other possibilities: models of cars, breeds of dog, categories of differential equation. In other words, through deliberate practice, become an accurate recognizer of specific types of object, so they "jump out at you" in the midst of other things.
• While driving on a long trip (in the U.S.), note all the out-of-state license plates you see. Stay focused. Carefully check every car as it goes by. Notice everything you can about each state's plates: state mottos, colors, placement of text, pictures, any other special differences. For the full effect, write these things down in a log book.
• Do a Where's Waldo? book. (Might be too difficult to really work as an exercise.)

To experience Extraverted Sensation:
• Walk around downtown in a city during the day, when lots of people are around (even a small town will do). Note what gets your attention, and what kind of attention it gets. Just walk around and let things grab your attention. Don't be deliberate. See what's exciting and what's boring. If a place looks exciting, go inside. The second you feel bored, leave and look around for something new. Don't think about this, don't reflect on it as you're doing it, and don't think ahead. Just go with your immediate gut reaction moment by moment--enter or exit the store before you have a chance to entertain a second thought.
• Walk again, and this time note what's grabbing other people's attention. Where's the crowd?
• (An exercise for brave people.) At a party or a bar or some other gathering of people, attract as much attention as you can to yourself. Anything that works is acceptable: feigning a heart attack, dressing better than everyone else there, dressing in a different color than everyone else there, putting a lampshade over your head--whatever works (it doesn't have to be dramatic, though, especially if you're just testing this out). Keep one eye on how much attention you're getting, and what kind of attention. As you try this at different gatherings, practice getting specific kinds of attention: intrigue, fear, disgust, sexual, laughing at you, laughing with you, etc. Cultivate some techniques for gaining specific positive kinds of attention. You will notice that you need to adjust your approach to fit your audience. As you practice, you'll develop a sense for what "plays" and what doesn't.
 

Magic Poriferan

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Procedural memory is a very, very Si thing(this is why there are a lot of jokes about ISTJs doing things like filing papers).
How can one internalize and conceptualize a Sense experience? By remembering it. That's how.

Your question is a pretty common one, and so is the question about Extraverted Intuition. It's because at a quick glance, Sensation seems like an inherently External thing and Intuition seems like an inherently internal thing, The two functions actually make a lot of sense, though.
 

redacted

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introverted sensing unconsciously gravitates towards concrete data that relates to the internal standard, aka the person's current goals/unconscious tendencies.

extroverted sensing approaches the entire observable environment at the same time. the slate clears every second..

Si takes an extra step; it filters the data towards the users interests. therefore it's more concerned with depth than breadth.
 

nemo

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It's like when you go to a movie and afterward you've forgotten most of the details but the film's "ambiance" and major events that seemed significant remain with you. That's Si.

Se is more immediate and doesn't put sensory data in any context. It's like when you "lose yourself" doing a physical process -- e.x. dancing or something.
 

redacted

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It's like when you go to a movie and afterward you've forgotten most of the details but the film's "ambiance" and major events that seemed significant remain with you. That's Si.

Se is more immediate and doesn't put sensory data in any context. It's like when you "lose yourself" doing a physical process -- e.x. dancing or something.

Si is also immediate. it's just goal oriented with its attention.
 

Magic Poriferan

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It's like when you go to a movie and afterward you've forgotten most of the details but the film's "ambiance" and major events that seemed significant remain with you. That's Si.

Se is more immediate and doesn't put sensory data in any context. It's like when you "lose yourself" doing a physical process -- e.x. dancing or something.

Errmmm, I believe we have a disagreance of definition. Si is more like photographic memory. Ni, being subjective and interpretive, is the one that makes you remember what you considered important or meaningful.
 

redacted

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memory is in extroverted perceiving too. the memories of a Pe user are stimulated by the outer environment; those of a Pi user are stimulated by the inner environment.
 

nemo

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Errmmm, I believe we have a disagreance of definition. Si is more like photographic memory. Ni, being subjective and interpretive, is the one that makes you remember what you considered important or meaningful.

Not quite photographic memory. What dissonance said about memories stimulated via the "inner environment" is true.

From Lenore Thomson's book:

"Introverted Sensation gives us the will to accumulate information--names, dates, numbers, statistics, references, guidelines, and so forth--related to the things that matter to us. ... Such facts are highly selective. ... They're part of our self-experience. They define the specific nature of our passions and interests. They become our basis for taking in new data."

Introverted Sensation

And Ni is a different topic entirely.
 

Magic Poriferan

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Not quite photographic memory. What dissonance said about memories stimulated via the "inner environment" is true.

From Lenore Thomson's book:

"Introverted Sensation gives us the will to accumulate information--names, dates, numbers, statistics, references, guidelines, and so forth--related to the things that matter to us. ... Such facts are highly selective. ... They're part of our self-experience. They define the specific nature of our passions and interests. They become our basis for taking in new data."

Introverted Sensation

And Ni is a different topic entirely.

Well, I said "more like", not the same as photographic memory. Also, I brought up N because it's an obvious contrast to S.
 

proteanmix

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I'd really like to hear ISJs or SJs describe their experience of Si. Frankly, I've read the textbook descriptions before and there's nothing new to be learned.

I recently read an ISTJ describe his Si (paraphrasing) as deep knowing. He says he it's like experiencing deja vu 24/7, that you know what to do and how to move because you've already been there. I'd never heard Si described that way.
 

dnivera

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more about Si

Si for me is being super meticulous about details. I laughed out loud when I read "How to experience Si" (see my previous post) because of how true it is. I am *that* inane that I care about distinguishing different kinds of cotton from one another. I'm a huge gear-head, for example (meaning I buy lots of technical/camping clothes, even though I go on scientific expeditions once every few years for grad school), so I'm concerned with whether Gore-tex is better than ripstop nylon, waterproof polyester, or other kinds of fabrics, for example. I'll spend hours pondering which fabric is better and researching parkas online to find the best one.

My Secondary is Te, which means that I'll express these Si ideas aloud to other people, and this is what tends to annoy other people about ISTJs - we state what seems to be "obvious" to everyone else. That tends to make others see us as boring conversationalists, but actually, we're just expressing our dominant Si. For example, when traveling to a new destination, I'll tend to make outward observations about the place: "This architecture evokes IM Pei" or "This reminds me of XYZ building in American City". Most people feel that statements like these are overstating the obvious, particularly Ns. Not everyone enjoys Sensing, as we've seen on this board.

Si is indeed related to our individual value systems. For example, I totally don't care about cars. On things I *do* care about, I get obsessive and can spend hours researching the ingredients of different kinds of lotion, the construction of shoes, or the differences in the 16 M-B personality types (that's why I'm here!). For me, it's a lot about matching theory to reality.

Oh yeah, and Si is pretty useful in my grad school discipline. I do biological anthropology, which requires looking at the minute differences in bones for forensic identification or reconstruction of anatomy and phylogeny and other things. However, I need N to think outside the box and be creative in my reports.

If you've seen Wall-E, the scene where WallE is trying to categorize a spork into either "fork" or "spoon" categories is good example of Si. It's all about categorizing, classifying, and systematizing. (Insert ISTJ filing joke here).
 

runvardh

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That sounds like me and astronomy, though I do tend to use my tertiary Si as more of a back room librarian than anything else. My Si is also one of the reasons why if I had a bad experience that is tied to a certain neighbourhood I'll actually take pains to avoid that part of town. The bad experience itself didn't happen there, but it could be the place where I first met the person with whom I later had that bad experience with. I otherwise tend to weigh my Si down with new stuff just to keep it hopping instead of retrieving the more unsightly stuff from my past.
 

quietgirl

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I could be wrong here...

However, how I see Si in action through my boyfriend (ISFJ) is in his view of the world. I hate to use the word "close-minded", though that's probably the natural "N" view of it. Everything is judged based on a very strict personal view that is highly based on experience & past events. I also know that his judgements are very based on the facts he internally collects & puts together.

Examples?

He has a really hard time believing things about my past because he has no tangible proof that I did or didn't do something. He bases his idea of how I was when I was single and in other relationships on how HE behaved and how other girls he's known or dated behaved. The bulk of our arguments consist of information revealed about the past - especially if it doesn't match up with his morals. He also gets very bent out of shape if facts are left out & he discovers them later. He sees this as a form of lying and betrayal - he has a very hard time understanding that not everyone remembers every minute detail when re-telling a story.

Since that sounds so negative, I'll give you a positive. He is the most prepared person I've ever met. I definitely see Si put to use when he is preparing for a job. Recently, he took a second job doing something he had ever done before. On his first day of training, he asked for information he could bring home to adequately prepare for his next shift. He studied the information ridiculously & could now recite every detail of it. He tells me that he HAS to do this when starting something new because he is only comfortable with new things once he fully understands the task.
 

Eric B

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I've just recently figured out what Se is like as a shadow, and I'm also explaining it to my wife today.

The perfect exaple from recent weeks, is when I drop watermelon on the floor. It's a dark floor, so it's hard to see to begin with, and then Se is "trickster" for me, so I tend to skim over things visually, and didn't see much. So thinking I got it all, I then go into the other room. She arrives home and goes into the kitchen, and then suddenly I hear an almost screeching "There's watermelon on the floor!". I had for a while been calling her "the hawk", as she's always spotting things out of place or wrong. When I first began explaining the functions, she thought she had a high preference for Se ("taste, touch, see pretty things, etc). But in reality, it is her "witch" function. She does become very "witchy" or "critical" with it. And most of the time, she doesn't even realize she sounds like she's yelling. (She just calls it "emphasis" or "projecting her voice").
She does have an appreciation of things looking nice, but this also drives her to tend to use Se to pick out things being wrong.

Just now as I was writing this, she brought in a can of bread crumbs, which expires next month, so she wanted me to see if it smelled OK. She said it smelled like cheese (which I didn't pick up), and then she looked, and it does have cheese in it.

So Se then works to backup Si, and tell that something is out of place. In my case, Si is more "childlike", so the Se is not used as seriously either.
 
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