Irritated by Te!

[yeghor]

In my (limited) experience with ESTJs, ISTJs, ESFPs and ENFPs, I've seen that their style of talking to people feels (to me) like talking down on people in a rather blunt manner...

I've also come to notice that it evokes in me feelings of being criticized and underestimated...as if the Te user is bragging with his\her knowledge and knowingly or unknowingly putting the other in a position of someone with inferior knowledge\thinking...as if imposing some kind of intellectual superiority over the other...

It feels instructive, critical, boasting, entitled, infantalizing, restricting, suffocating...

So, what's your perspective\experience in this regard?

What do you, Te users, feel when communicating with people thru Te? How does the process and the other person look to you from your perspective?

Can it have something to do with Ti-tert or Fe-aux...?

Does Fe voice evoke a similar reaction in Fi users? If yes, how?

Does Fe sound as if it was morally superior\entitled or something else?

 

[prplchknz]

I don't have problems with aux te users, but I always run into problems with dom te users, especially the females. They have this tendency to project their short comings on to me, and say that's what's wrong with me. Then I'll observe later them doing the same thing, and I'll bring up what they say to others and others are like really? I don't see that.

No other function really illicit a strong reaction to me. It's only Dom Te for me, but I don't know if that's a rare thing, that only one function rubs someone the wrong way.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

It's because Te is your tertiary shadow function and is one of two most rejected functions of your personality (second only to your daemon, Si).

I don't really feel anything when I'm communicating through Te, though I guess I might be seen as intimidating considering the fact that I am very blunt and direct when I use it. I will agree on the bit of boasting, we like to share our achievements and show-off our strengths whenever we get the chance due to the fact that our intellectual worth is external (much like how Fi is internal self-worth that doesn't require external perspective and how Fe requires external perspective to build self-worth). As for how the other person looks to me, I would say that they look as if they are searching for knowledge from me, as if I am a gateway that provides straight-forward answers.

I have recently realized how much I hate Fe (surprising since I have typed as Fe valuing types before), to the point where it is my very anathema. It manipulates, imposes its will over others under the false pretense of kindness and warmth, and builds this political arena of bullshit wherever it goes. It bounds those who do not use it under this archaic system that defends itself under the disguise of "civility". (from my perspective of Fe trickster)

 

[LadyLazarus]

Does Fe voice evoke a similar reaction in Fi users? If yes, how?

Does Fe sound as if it was morally superior\entitled or something else?

Hell yes, I find the Fe-doms I've met in real life to be very bossy as well as being prone to thinking they know what's best for me, when all I really want is for them to get out of my hair.
They're always trying to force me to do/manipulate me into doing things I don't want to do or trying to tell me what to do in general.
As if I am not an autonomous individual, who has the right to do as they damn well please.

They also always treat me as if I am a child, scolding me for every little thing, when even my own mother understands that at this point in my life, that crosses the line towards being incredibly demeaning.
I just think they don't understand that I don't need and/or want to be babied/ taken care of, in fact I find the way they treat me irritating.

As for Te users, I usually get along well with them for some reason, the one's I've met don't seem like the bragging type, although they kind of sometimes do act like they know best as well(sticks up their butts all of them I swear ) , but in a different sort of way than Fe-doms do.Although, they never try to force me to do stuff I don't want to do like the Fe-doms I've met have.Overall, they're cool and I find they complement me well.

 

[á´…eparted]

I <3 Te doms and auxs.

 

[yeghor]

Blah Blah Blah...

I have recently realized how much I hate Fe (surprising since I have typed as Fe valuing types before), to the point where it is my very anathema. It manipulates, imposes its will over others under the false pretense of kindness and warmth, and builds this political arena of bullshit wherever it goes. It bounds those who do not use it under this archaic system that defends itself under the disguise of "civility". (from my perspective of Fe trickster)

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

lol

 

[á´…eparted]

Well, he is right. When I seek to manipulate, this is exactly what I do. It's highly effective.

 

[Qlip]

Te expression can be misunderstood, or also misused. Whenever I'm Te-ing, it's a function of Fi: This is what I need to feel that things are right. When I personally get into this mode, it is necessary for my well being. And if somebody isn't complying, then they are in a position where I am not judging them as a person, I am not angry or enforcing, I'm presenting a choice. They are part of my solution or not. If not, bye-bye, I'll miss you (no sarcasm). This happens in dire situations.

There's also Te I use with Ne, and that's playing with ideas. And it may sound commanding, but it's actually quite plastic: I want to see what happens, so let's follow this plan, and let's do it right! Often my expectations of people falling-in line are a little high. When I see it's not going to happen, I get momentarily frustrated, and then I try to revise the plan.

I can definitely understand how easy it is to slip into a tyrant mode, but even if I'm not being a tyrant, Te can sound condescending. I do what I can to mitigate this, but mostly I just like to be around people who understand where I'm coming from and aren't all that sensitive to it.

 

[yeghor]

...I don't really feel anything when I'm communicating through Te, though I guess I might be seen as intimidating considering the fact that I am very blunt and direct when I use it. I will agree on the bit of boasting, we like to share our achievements and show-off our strengths whenever we get the chance due to the fact that our intellectual worth is external (much like how Fi is internal self-worth that doesn't require external perspective and how Fe requires external perspective to build self-worth). As for how the other person looks to me, I would say that they look as if they are searching for knowledge from me, as if I am a gateway that provides straight-forward answers.

Did you have to intellectually perform to receive praise from your parents while growing up? Is that why Te-aux seeks self worth thru external display of intellectual capacity and the feedback received in return...?

As for the last part, do you give unsolicited intellectual advice to people? How do they react if you do?

I have recently realized how much I hate Fe (surprising since I have typed as Fe valuing types before), to the point where it is my very anathema. It manipulates, imposes its will over others under the false pretense of kindness and warmth, and builds this political arena of bullshit wherever it goes. It bounds those who do not use it under this archaic system that defends itself under the disguise of "civility". (from my perspective of Fe trickster)

What specifically makes it false? It feels to me as if Fe is some kind of hailing gesture to establish\identify hostility status with others...It negotiates somehow...

Fe gestures can be heartfelt as well...or can be used as a disguise so as not to initiate a conflict...It may be something to do with Fe users having a somewhat weak constitution for conflict...Hence they may have adapted in time Fe to establish (authentic or fake) connections with other similar people so as to form some kind of pack\herd...It's some kind of inter-dependence mechanism...

And some members of the pack do not want to abide by those rules...disturbing the pack harmony, hence weakening the pack? Then why not leave the pack altogether or be cast out by the pack?

Fe is considering other people's social feedback where Te is considering other people's intellectual feedback about the self...

So those who are not sensitive to social feedback feels restricted\dictated when those who are sensitive to it are irritated by the former's negative social behaviours...? Of course there's also the question of what negative behaviour is exactly?

So what may be the purpose of Te in terms of socialization?

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

Did you have to intellectually perform to receive praise from your parents while growing up? Is that why Te-aux seeks self worth thru external display of intellectual capacity and the feedback received in return...?

As for the last part, do you give unsolicited intellectual advice to people? How do they react if you do?



What specifically makes it false? It feels to me as if Fe is some kind of hailing gesture to establish\identify hostility status with others...It negotiates somehow...

Fe gestures can be heartfelt as well...or can be used as a disguise so as not to initiate a conflict...It may be something to do with Fe users having a somewhat weak constitution for conflict...Hence they may have adapted in time Fe to establish (authentic or fake) connections with other similar people so as to form some kind of pack\herd...It's some kind of inter-dependence mechanism...

And some members of the pack do not want to abide by those rules...disturbing the pack harmony, hence weakening the pack? Then why not leave the pack altogether or be cast out by the pack?

Fe is considering other people's social feedback where Te is considering other people's intellectual feedback about the self...

So those who are not sensitive to social feedback feels restricted\dictated when those who are sensitive to it are irritated by the former's negative social behaviours...? Of course there's also the question of what negative behaviour is exactly?

So what may be the purpose of Te in terms of socialization?

Perhaps it might stem from that, Te dom/aux users (when not supported by tert. Fi at some point) will inevitably base their own intellect and strength off of external factors. Te users would be the people in high school who would constantly compare test scores with each other to build a structure defining who is the most "successful" by this intellectual standard. I do give unsolicited advice to people, but it is out of a need to be solving something (I have a deep compulsion to always stimulate my mind with some problem or another to be solving(perhaps stems from Socionics dynamic-static dichotomy? dynamics compulsively fill time/schedules while statics compulsively fill space)), and usually they either accept my advice or they don't, and I could care less if they don't. If they do, however, I want to be updated on how said advice might be working as a sort of experimentation for future use.

Fe simply has the connotation of evil, or more specifically, conspiring to me subjectively. It seems to misdirect information in order to please some sort of social hierarchy based not on logical correctness but out of appeals (to people, ideas, society, etc.). I agree that Fe can be heartfelt, and in its truest, purest form, would be considered a force of benevolence, but with it muddled as it is in today's society, it is used to keep people within the constraints of social structure not based on some sort of empirical correctness but simply to preserve the harmony of society and/or the group.

The purpose of Te in terms of socialization is to quickly and efficiently apply knowledge, to show the realistic application of knowledge ("what's the point if we know how the aerodynamics of a plane work if we don't have a plane or aren't building a plane? Let's apply this knowledge somehow"). Essentially, Te is logical directness based not on subjective opinion like what I am utilizing here, but on justifiable, objective evidence.

Te people regard their success and mental prowess based on their external results, just as Fe people regard their success and emotional prowess based on their external results (in this case, pertaining to the emotional atmosphere)

 

[PeaceBaby]

I like your questions.

Does Fe voice evoke a similar reaction in Fi users? If yes, how?

Would it not be the same mechanism as why you feel as you do towards Te?

Te and Fe both to me sound like they talk "down" to people and both can at times feel instructive, critical, boasting, entitled, infantalizing, restricting, suffocating. I have more tolerance however for Te, as it typically judges information rather than people. These are two things I keep separated as well.

Fe additionally can sound manipulative since it uses emotions to achieve goals, something I personally find distasteful.

Does Fe sound as if it was morally superior\entitled or something else?

Yes it can.

Not that anyone who's speaking it THINKS they sound like that. Both Je functions, esp in the dom and aux positions, sound like this on a daily basis.

 

[Stansmith]

I always regret coming off that way. I'm usually somewhat gentle when interacting with people, although I have less of a concern for directly mirroring or rousing emotions in others than I'd imagine a Fe-user would.

 

[Totenkindly]

Well, as my example: I hate it when I bring up something casually or with some broad point unrelated to process in mind, and suddenly the Te'ers are all correcting me for how I did it and telling me I did it wrong (or, more fairly to them, "less right"). In hindsight, I don't think they mean anything by it, and perhaps even aim to be helpful at the time; but I typically feel blind-sided and criticized out of the blue... and also that my main reason for sharing the information was completely ignored. Instead of it being useful, I typically just don't feel like sharing again and will keep my thoughts to myself.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

 

[animenagai]

I think a major point of miscommunication between Fe-Ti'ers and Fi-Te'ers is that the latter doesn't view the passive-aggressive, manipulative from of Fe as keeping the peace. I would much rather someone be upfront with things they don't like about me. Things aren't going to get better with this cloak-and-dagger type of socialising. The underlying problems are still there. If we're upfront about things, at least we have a chance of reaching an understanding.

 

[Coriolis]

Perhaps it might stem from that, Te dom/aux users (when not supported by tert. Fi at some point) will inevitably base their own intellect and strength off of external factors. Te users would be the people in high school who would constantly compare test scores with each other to build a structure defining who is the most "successful" by this intellectual standard.

Interesting. I mostly compared my results with my previous results (always want to do better), and with a perfect score/result. Everyone else could fail, but if I got less than I thought I should based on past performance, I would be disappointed.

I do give unsolicited advice to people, but it is out of a need to be solving something (I have a deep compulsion to always stimulate my mind with some problem or another to be solving(perhaps stems from Socionics dynamic-static dichotomy? dynamics compulsively fill time/schedules while statics compulsively fill space)), and usually they either accept my advice or they don't, and I could care less if they don't. If they do, however, I want to be updated on how said advice might be working as a sort of experimentation for future use.

I have learned not to waste the effort on unsolicited advice unless a situation is truly dire or I have specific reason to suspect it will be welcome. I give most advice out of a need to problem-solve, though, solicited or not.

Te people regard their success and mental prowess based on their external results, just as Fe people regard their success and emotional prowess based on their external results (in this case, pertaining to the emotional atmosphere)

This may explain some of what comes across as boastfulness. If I am trying to get someone to listen to my advice, I feel I should justify why they should listen to me. I might therefore share with them examples of how I have solved similar problems in the past, or how I have knowledge or experience that pertains to their situation. This might sound like bragging, but if I don't present my "credentials", they have no more cause to take my advice than the advice of any Joe Blow on the street.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

Interesting. I mostly compared my results with my previous results (always want to do better), and with a perfect score/result. Everyone else could fail, but if I got less than I thought I should based on past performance, I would be disappointed.

I've seen people do this as well. You are still gravitating toward an external self-worth that suggests that external factors give you an indication of how you are doing, rather than the Ji perspective, which might be more inclined to introspect and base their self-worth on their own specific reasoning abilities rather than on external factors.

Interesting on the credentials bit, I find myself wanting to illustrate some sort of ethos-appeal one way or another, just as long as it is present and in the mind of others.

 

[Coriolis]

I've seen people do this as well. You are still gravitating toward an external self-worth that suggests that external factors give you an indication of how you are doing, rather than the Ji perspective, which might be more inclined to introspect and base their self-worth on their own specific reasoning abilities rather than on external factors.

I don't deny that the factors are external, just that would care about anyone's performance but my own. I prefer external standards that are less influenced by others. I have never liked grading on a curve because it means my grade is dependent on more than my own efforts.

Interesting on the credentials bit, I find myself wanting to illustrate some sort of ethos-appeal one way or another, just as long as it is present and in the mind of others.

I will do that, too, but more to get the other person to take the problem seriously. I usually don't discuss my own accomplishments at all without good reason, but presenting myself as a worthwhile source of advice is one.

 

[greenfairy]

I feel like it depends on the person if I feel this way. I've experienced it with Te tertiary, auxiliary, and dominant, but not in everyone with these placements I meet. I've also experienced it with ISFJ's. I think with some people it's their way of being helpful and informative, so depending on how I perceive their psychology and intentions I take it this way. I'm sensitive to it in a romantic relationship dynamic though. It tends to trigger me because of the traditional sexism thing.

 

[Avocado]

I like your questions.



Would it not be the same mechanism as why you feel as you do towards Te?

Te and Fe both to me sound like they talk "down" to people and both feel instructive, critical, boasting, entitled, infantalizing, restricting, suffocating. I have more tolerance however for Te, as it typically judges information rather than people. These are two things I keep separated as well.

Fe additionally can sound very manipulative and it uses emotions to achieve goals, something I personally find distasteful.



Yes it can.

Not that anyone who's speaking it THINKS they sound like that. Both Je functions, esp in the dom and aux positions, sound like this on a daily basis.

then I do use Te...