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I know what Ni is now!

Azure Flame

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So I think I now know what Ni is like when its used.

Its seeing the whole picture at all times. Both sides of the same coin. When someone says they are "Strong Willed" that also implies that they are "Stubbornly narrow sighted." If someone says they are "very shy" it also means they are "good at keeping secrets." If someone says they are a psychopath, another may argue they are "willing to do what others are not."

For every bad there is somehow a good. A yin and a yang.

And when you use Ni, you see all of existence in your mind. Civilizations flowing, coming and going, mountains forming and crumbling, cultures forming and spreading... and in the end the Ni dom (INTJ INFJ) is left feeling small, wondering how its possible to do anything good in such a huge world. (many INFJ's type as enneagram 4 scared of being insignificant, and many INTJs type as 3 or 5, scared of being worthless or inadequate.)

When I use my Ni I see everyone around me as equal to me, but I also see myself as having some kind of a gift. The ISTJ who acts like a badass and tells everyone how tough she is, does so because she feels no one respects her. So I will give her this respect and as a result she will give me something in return, perhaps she will get along with me or protect me or help me in the future. The ENTJ asks a lot of questions and constantly seeks knowledge, may secretly feel stupid because he doesn't actually understand himself, and believes understanding the world will bring about understanding of himself.

With this seeing 2 sides of every coin, Ni doms also tend to be indecisive, as all "truths" are equivalent. Their indecision comes in many forms, either in the moment decision making (INFJ), Being able to decide if one is good or evil (ENFJ's are too ethically objective with Fe dominance), being unable to choose one morality over the other (ENTJ's are too objective with Te dominance), and being unable to take action due to fear of equal and opposite forces of the universe (INTJ). Many Ni users (or intuitives for that matter) may feel depressed because... What's the point?

Thoughts?
 

Amargith

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:thinking: I thought it was Ne that showed me all angles of a person...and there is usually more than 2 :ninja:
 

INTP

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And when you use Ni, you see all of existence in your mind.

It doesent see the "all existence", it makes up a subjective view of it all that is highly biased and most likely does not represent the truth as much as the person thinks it does.
 

INTP

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And when you use Ni, you see all of existence in your mind.

It doesent see the "all existence", it makes up a subjective view of it all that is highly biased and most likely does not represent the truth as much as the person thinks it does. Combining Ti with Ni can give better results than combining it with Fi tho.
 

Amargith

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Grin. [MENTION=7595]INTP[/MENTION] I'd say your own personal subjective Ti-bias is showing :wink:

[MENTION=14840]Hypatia[/MENTION] I think it's more that N-dom users are likely to have some access to the other side of that function as well. From what I gather, Ni does the whole looking at all angles and discovering the truth by moving 'inward', iow, by distillation. Ne does the whole angle observation by association and circling around the object, examining all nooks and crannies.
 

INTP

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Grin. [MENTION=7595]INTP[/MENTION] I'd say your own personal subjective Ti-bias is showing :wink:

Ni is subjective by definition. And yes, so it Ti, but at least Ti uses logic and reason, not just some "i know it all even tho i cant express it nor can i know why i know it all or what it all really even is" :D
 
G

garbage

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Did you figure out what Ni is via a "A-ha!" moment, flash of insight, mystical state, or a sudden release of emotions? ;)

All busting of chops aside, awareness of multiple perspectives on the same coin is a pretty good way to describe it. Layers of the onion. Thinking *about* the onion or the coin. Or something.
 

Amargith

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Ni is subjective by definition. And yes, so it Ti, but at least Ti uses logic and reason, not just some "i know it all even tho i cant express it nor can i know why i know it all or what it all really even is" :D

Yes and from my NeFi pov that just looks like the following:

'At least I have my illusion that I use objectivity and reason - therefore I MUST be more objective.'

At least Ni owns that it is subjective and can keep it in mind - unless it gets deluded by Te into the same reasoning :rolleyes:

Again. Your bias for your own preferred functions is showing. Bigtime :smooch:
 

Hypatia

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Ni is subjective by definition. And yes, so it Ti, but at least Ti uses logic and reason, not just some "i know it all even tho i cant express it nor can i know why i know it all or what it all really even is" :D

Sorry you see it that way.
 

Azure Flame

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I think Ne and Ni are the same in this "multiple perspective" aspect, but Ne is objective and Ni is subjective. So an Ni user is more prone to thinking something is horribly wrong, when the relationship is going amazing. Meanwhile an Ne user probably only sees the objective perspectives that are actually happening.
 

INTP

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:thinking: I thought it was Ne that showed me all angles of a person...and there is usually more than 2 :ninja:

Ne uses objective triggers for coming up with the idea of what the different angles could be like. Ni uses subjective triggers/gutfeelings/whatevers to create the image.
 
W

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It is important to understand Ni from an Ni type.

So many Ni doms, so little veracity.

This post is highly irrelevant, just felt like talking.
 

INTP

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Yes and from my NeFi pov that just looks like the following:

'At least I have my illusion that I use objectivity and reason - therefore I MUST be more objective.'

At least Ni owns that it is subjective and can keep it in mind - unless it gets deluded by Te into the same reasoning :rolleyes:

Again. Your bias for your own preferred functions is showing. Bigtime :smooch:

Lets start with: Ti isnt objective and Ne is fundamentally a subjective process triggered by objective stuff, also Ne only suggests stuff for my subjective reasoning to work with.

But whether or not something represents the truth better doesent automatically come from more objectivity inserted. Lets take Te and Ti for example, im sure you are aware of the fact that Ti looks more deeper definitions of things and aims for the root of things, while Te is more concrete and shallow process that looks more at what works(not whether the thing that works is working because of correct definition and that there isnt for example some mistake in reasoning, but other mistake that just makes it give out the same results).

Lets take a worlds best car driver and worlds best car mechanic for as an example. This hypothetical car mechanic knows how the engine works, what metal is used where and why, why the certain screws are tightened with certain force etc etc, but isnt a very good driver. And this hypothetical car driver knows next to nothing about the screws and the bolts, but is able to drive any car flawlessly after testing it out for 5 seconds. Sooo, which one of the guys has more deeper and accurate understanding of cars? Yes you guessed it, its the car mechanic, the driver only knows all about how to use a car, not so much about a car itself.

Whether the driving skills or knowledge of car mechanics is more important to someone, its their personal thing and i dont think that one is somehow better than another. Its just that i prefer the knowledge more and there is my functional bias ;)

And yes i know this example isnt about Ne vs Ni, but it shows that subjective reasoning doesent equal less true. When it comes to Ni vs Ne, Ni without Ti doesent have that reasoning to ground it on reality.

ps. im not talking about Ni tert or inferior types, they rely on Se more than Ni in their perception of things and Se is the most objective of the functions.
 

PeaceBaby

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Its seeing the whole picture at all times. Both sides of the same coin.

Hmm, I'm curious to see what Ni doms think of this. I do imagine experientially it feels this way. And I've even thought of it this way before.

As for my perspective on what you've shared though, from experience I know that the Ni dom does not see all perspectives therefore Ni does not see the "whole picture".

However, what they CAN do is amazingly piece together a whole perspective and a subsequent strategy to execute in the world from very little data to solve problems. This can be piercingly useful and accurate but on occasion, is quite off.

When someone says they are "Strong Willed" that also implies that they are "Stubbornly narrow sighted." If someone says they are "very shy" it also means they are "good at keeping secrets." If someone says they are a psychopath, another may argue they are "willing to do what others are not."

I think this (and your examples) have quite a strong flavor of Fe. I do think Fe types makes choices as to what side of the coin they'll interpret these things, yes. After all, every strength is a weakness unbalanced.
 

INTP

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from experience I know that the Ni dom does not see all perspectives therefore Ni does not see the "whole picture".

Yea, the whole nature of introverted functions is to remove what isnt seen as relevant from the subjective point of view(i.e. abstracted). Ni does look at the big picture and tries to see behind the immediate reality, but that big picture isnt the whole picture as it has been abstracted, its just a guess based on what the unconscious biases see as being relevant.
 
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