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I know what Ni is now!

Hypatia

trying to be a very good ENTP
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
615
Lets start with: Ti isnt objective and Ne is fundamentally a subjective process triggered by objective stuff, also Ne only suggests stuff for my subjective reasoning to work with.

But whether or not something represents the truth better doesent automatically come from more objectivity inserted. Lets take Te and Ti for example, im sure you are aware of the fact that Ti looks more deeper definitions of things and aims for the root of things, while Te is more concrete and shallow process that looks more at what works(not whether the thing that works is working because of correct definition and that there isnt for example some mistake in reasoning, but other mistake that just makes it give out the same results).

Lets take a worlds best car driver and worlds best car mechanic for as an example. This hypothetical car mechanic knows how the engine works, what metal is used where and why, why the certain screws are tightened with certain force etc etc, but isnt a very good driver. And this hypothetical car driver knows next to nothing about the screws and the bolts, but is able to drive any car flawlessly after testing it out for 5 seconds. Sooo, which one of the guys has more deeper and accurate understanding of cars? Yes you guessed it, its the car mechanic, the driver only knows all about how to use a car, not so much about a car itself.

Whether the driving skills or knowledge of car mechanics is more important to someone, its their personal thing and i dont think that one is somehow better than another. Its just that i prefer the knowledge more and there is my functional bias ;)

And yes i know this example isnt about Ne vs Ni, but it shows that subjective reasoning doesent equal less true. When it comes to Ni vs Ne, Ni without Ti doesent have that reasoning to ground it on reality.

ps. im not talking about Ni tert or inferior types, they rely on Se more than Ni in their perception of things and Se is the most objective of the functions.

INTP wins for most boring type, again.
 
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ndovjtjcaqidthi

Guest
I think Ne and Ni are the same in this "multiple perspective" aspect, but Ne is objective and Ni is subjective. So an Ni user is more prone to thinking something is horribly wrong, when the relationship is going amazing. Meanwhile an Ne user probably only sees the objective perspectives that are actually happening.

I know how this feels.
 

INTP

Active member
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Messages
7,803
MBTI Type
intp
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx
INTP wins for most boring type, again.

Nice, two wins in the row :D . INTJs are starting to lose their age old winning streak
 

badger055

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Messages
570
My Ni is mostly annoying. Don't do that cause you are going to die! Fucking shut up Ni.
 

badger055

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Messages
570
I see you have returned, and are as positive as ever.

OGh7Uty.jpg


I haven't returned I'm just visiting.
 

HongDou

navigating
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
5,191
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I always thought Ni was the least interesting of the functions to read about tbh. That, or Ti. :shrug: I mean it doesn't make them any less important than the other functions but I just kind of snoozed off when reading about them.
 

Forever

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
8,551
MBTI Type
NiFi
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I think Ne and Ni are the same in this "multiple perspective" aspect, but Ne is objective and Ni is subjective. So an Ni user is more prone to thinking something is horribly wrong, when the relationship is going amazing. Meanwhile an Ne user probably only sees the objective perspectives that are actually happening.

I always feel like what I may have said afterwards, I kind of just "put the hand on my face" moment, I'm like "Why did I say that...? :(" Go back to the person, make sure he/she understands it clearly and hopefully my feeling might be managed from that point on..
 

Werebudgie

I want my account deleted
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
398
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
So I think I now know what Ni is like when its used.

You're mostly if not entirely wrong when it comes to me as a Ni-dom.

Its seeing the whole picture at all times. Both sides of the same coin. When someone says they are "Strong Willed" that also implies that they are "Stubbornly narrow sighted." If someone says they are "very shy" it also means they are "good at keeping secrets." If someone says they are a psychopath, another may argue they are "willing to do what others are not."

For every bad there is somehow a good. A yin and a yang.

If it's N at all, it seems more Ne to me. Ne sees lots of possibilities. In any case, that example seems more to be about human value judgements, which would be F-related (Fe or Fi).

Ni can shift perspective, but not in the way you're describing. The flavor of where you're coming from here is just really inaccurate, when it comes to my own experience as a Ni-dom.

And when you use Ni, you see all of existence in your mind. Civilizations flowing, coming and going, mountains forming and crumbling, cultures forming and spreading... and in the end the Ni dom (INTJ INFJ) is left feeling small, wondering how its possible to do anything good in such a huge world. (many INFJ's type as enneagram 4 scared of being insignificant, and many INTJs type as 3 or 5, scared of being worthless or inadequate.)

No, not in my case. From Ni perception, I see the parts of existence that I can see from my specific location in the landscape. Not all of the landscape. It's is pretty huge, though.

I find the the part about feeling small and wondering how it's possible to do anything good in such a huge world actually pretty ridiculous when applied to my own experiences and perspective. Being part of something larger isn't a problem for me at all. Not sure about Ni-doms with other enneagram types, but at the very least you're overgeneralizing here based on incorrect initial comprehension IMO.

When I use my Ni I see everyone around me as equal to me, but I also see myself as having some kind of a gift. The ISTJ who acts like a badass and tells everyone how tough she is, does so because she feels no one respects her. So I will give her this respect and as a result she will give me something in return, perhaps she will get along with me or protect me or help me in the future. The ENTJ asks a lot of questions and constantly seeks knowledge, may secretly feel stupid because he doesn't actually understand himself, and believes understanding the world will bring about understanding of himself.

This doesn't seem like Ni to me. Actually it seems more like some version of Fe, if I had to guess.

With this seeing 2 sides of every coin, Ni doms also tend to be indecisive, as all "truths" are equivalent. Their indecision comes in many forms, either in the moment decision making (INFJ),

Again, not accurate to Ni perception in me.

It does take me some time to process. There are two interconnected reasons for this.

First, Ni perception often emerges in ways initially inaccessible to the conscious mind, including visual images, metaphors, visceral gut feeling, stuff like that. So the information is there, but my conscious mind often doesn't comprehend what it is and thus how it could affect my movement. Second, Ni layers of reality are invisible in the cultural system in which I live, so I have learned to second-guess my own Ni perceptions as a default. Together, these two patterns mean that it can take me some time to consciously understand Ni perception to the point of being able to act on it. Integrating Se in service to Ni can help with this, but even with Ni-Se perception, it's still a struggle for me. However, when I am able to act directly from Ni-Se perception without having to run it through my conscious understanding, I've found that it works really well as a compass/guide to action.

(on reflection: of course, if you're a judging-dom ... I suppose at a completely rudimentary level, a perceiving-dom might appear to deviate from the judging-dom mode by accepting all truths as equivalent. But IMO that kind of description would use a judging-dom framework to describe a perceiving-dom perception and thus would be skewed away from the actual lived experience of a perceiving-dom.)

Thoughts?

In addition to the above, I'd suggest you focus much more on trying to understand and describe your own experiences rather than trying to define what Ni is for Ni-doms and others.

I don't see a recognizable type listed for you - where is Ni in your own cognitive function stack? Is it your inferior function? Is it somewhere in your shadow functions? Somewhere else? eta: just looked all the way through your signature at the bottom of the post. Says ESTP, which would make Ni your inferior function, yes? Apologies for missing that the first time. It makes a lot of sense to me, though.

Note: I see from your profile that you're "DJ ARENDEE." I've seen some of your stuff on YouTube and if my memory serves, you have seemed to me to have a bit of a (socionics-fueled?) obsession with Ni-doms - INFJs specifically, given some sort of assumed complementary oppositeness in our types or something? (I realize I'm mixing MBTI and socionics here, I may be misremembering but it seemed kind of like that's what you were doing. All very vague memory, though, so I could be inaccurate in some way here). Anyway, I'm not sure if or how that's relevant to your current efforts to understand and describe Ni in other people including us Ni-doms, but it seems to me there's some flavor underneath your efforts to understand Ni that may be related somehow to this other stuff. I know that's vague, but will leave it in anyway.
 
N

ndovjtjcaqidthi

Guest
Are you sure this isn't due to your enneagram type? 648 is going to be hyperaware of what's going wrong, what could go wrong etc. IMO seems unlikely to be Ni specifically.

Did you even read my post?
 

Werebudgie

I want my account deleted
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
398
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
6w5
It is important to understand Ni from an Ni type.

Nah, it's much more fun for others to define and describe our experiences from outside of them.

(actually, considering how freaking analytically/consciously incomprehensible Ni perception tends to be at its core, it's not like we're necessarily going to be great at describing it either. It's interesting to have such a vivid experiential reality for me not translate to words ... or when it does, it often gets distorted in the translation).
 
S

Stansmith

Guest
I often get the impression that Ne-doms are always seeing 'the light', while SeNi users almost seem like they're being held back by their own neuroses and obsessions, especially if they're in some sort of Ni-Ji/Ji-Ni loop.
 

HongDou

navigating
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
5,191
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I often get the impression that Ne-doms are always seeing 'the light', while SeNi users almost seem like they're being held down by their own neuroses and obsessions. When the latter's fixating on one thing, the former seems to be fixating on twenty..

What do you mean here? You mean ENPs are always coming to multiple realizations about whatever they're thinking about, and SPs and NJs are trying to bring everything they're seeing into one big collective image/idea?
 
S

Stansmith

Guest
What do you mean here? You mean ENPs are always coming to multiple realizations about whatever they're thinking about, and SPs and NJs are trying to bring everything they're seeing into one big collective image/idea?

More or less.
 
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