Best basic guide to Cognitive Functions

[Showbread]

A friend of mine is interested in learning more about the cognitive functions aspect of the MBTI. Where would be a good place for her to start?

Thanks!

 

[WALMART]

With me.

The first of the two primary dichotomies is introversion and extraversion:
Introversion draws influence from within - it seeks to fortify against without
Extraversion draws influence from without - it seeks to utilize resources to provide within

The next important set of dichotomies are the four attitudes - sensing, thinking, feeling, and intuition:
Sense tells an object is present
Thought defines an object
Feeling values an object
Intuition idealizes an object

Combining the two major categories, the functions are derived: extraverted sensation (Se), introverted feeling (Fi), and so on. Complete list: Si, Se, Ti, Te, Fi, Fe, Ni, and Ne.

Beyond this is where things get complex and largely nuanced among whose opinion you're asking for.

My favorite excercise, when I first learned of the functions, was the "fence building problem", if you can still find it online. It encourages individual thought and expression by leaving the absolutes hidden, only presenting the bare minimums of categorical classification for each functions' approach towards conflict (though it's simple enough to fuck that up, too).

I feel long winded type descriptions are both flattering and unexclusive in many contexts.

 

[Jaguar]

Understanding Yourself and Others: An Introduction to the Personality Type Code
by Linda V. Berens, Dario Nardi

http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Yourself-Others-Introduction-Personality/dp/0966462424

 

[valaki]

With me.

Loool

My favorite excercise, when I first learned of the functions, was the "fence building problem", if you can still find it online. It encourages individual thought and expression by leaving the absolutes hidden, only presenting the bare minimums of categorical classification for each functions' approach towards conflict (though it's simple enough to fuck that up, too).

What was that "fence building problem" exactly?

 

[INTP]

Jung defined the functions with something like:

Sensing tells you that something is.
Thinking tells you what that thing is.
Intuition is a perception via unconscious and tells you where the thing came from and where it is going.
Feeling tells you whether or not that thing is acceptable or not, i.e. analyzes what it is worth.

Extraverted functions basically relate and trust to external world more on the processes and introverted functions relate/trust to subjective aspects more.

 

[Franz]

as far as im concerned there are no good guides to the functions so people just make up their own or misapply them as a behaviorist schema

 

[valaki]

Jung defined the functions with something like:

Sensing tells you that something is.
Thinking tells you what that thing is.
Intuition is a perception via unconscious and tells you where the thing came from and where it is going.
Feeling tells you whether or not that thing is acceptable or not, i.e. analyzes what it is worth.

Extraverted functions basically relate and trust to external world more on the processes and introverted functions relate/trust to subjective aspects more.

So why the hell does it get all so complex from there?

 

[INTP]

So why the hell does it get all so complex from there?

Because the actual processes are more complex. There is more than just four parts in your brains that tell the results(of functions) to you.

 

[valaki]

Because the actual processes are more complex. There is more than just four parts in your brains that tell the results(of functions) to you.

It was a rhetorical question.

I was more implying that the processes are not only complex but organized in a different way than assumed by most MBTI fans including the creator of MBTI .

 

[valaki]

-

 

[WALMART]

[MENTION=20622]valaki[/MENTION]

The fence building problem was one websites approach to define how each function would act when approached with the task of building a fence. It goes like this:


Ne - I want to design the fence

Ni - Why do they want to do this and what is the deal with fences anyway? Is this necessary?

Se - I want to decorate the fence and make sure that it looks stylish and appealing

Si - I’ll take care of looking at the instructions and making sure that we follow the established guidelines

Te - Is doing this cost effective? Will it be useful?

Ti - I want to analyze the structure and placement of the fence

Fe - How will it affect the neighborhood, and what will the neighbors think?

Fi - I want it to be my own special fence that I can share with others over time


Reading over it today I think there are some errors they've made in the simplification of the functions - namely, this is one cause why I never identified with Se and so strongly with Ne. But merh. If I care so badly for people to get "right" information I should host my own material

 

[digesthisickness]

My Fe is building the fence because of the neighbors.

 

[Alea_iacta_est]

[MENTION=20622]valaki[/MENTION]

The fence building problem was one websites approach to define how each function would act when approached with the task of building a fence. It goes like this:


Ne - I want to design the fence

Ni - Why do they want to do this and what is the deal with fences anyway? Is this necessary?

Se - I want to decorate the fence and make sure that it looks stylish and appealing

Si - I’ll take care of looking at the instructions and making sure that we follow the established guidelines

Te - Is doing this cost effective? Will it be useful?

Ti - I want to analyze the structure and placement of the fence

Fe - How will it affect the neighborhood, and what will the neighbors think?

Fi - I want it to be my own special fence that I can share with others over time


Reading over it today I think there are some errors they've made in the simplification of the functions - namely, this is one cause why I never identified with Se and so strongly with Ne. But merh. If I care so badly for people to get "right" information I should host my own material

The Ni one is so god damn accurate that it's terrifying.

 

[Ginkgo]

[MENTION=20622]valaki[/MENTION]

The fence building problem was one websites approach to define how each function would act when approached with the task of building a fence. It goes like this:


Ne - I want to design the fence

Ni - Why do they want to do this and what is the deal with fences anyway? Is this necessary?

Se - I want to decorate the fence and make sure that it looks stylish and appealing

Si - I’ll take care of looking at the instructions and making sure that we follow the established guidelines

Te - Is doing this cost effective? Will it be useful?

Ti - I want to analyze the structure and placement of the fence

Fe - How will it affect the neighborhood, and what will the neighbors think?

Fi - I want it to be my own special fence that I can share with others over time


Reading over it today I think there are some errors they've made in the simplification of the functions - namely, this is one cause why I never identified with Se and so strongly with Ne. But merh. If I care so badly for people to get "right" information I should host my own material

Why is it that, according to this, Fi just seems like a crudely specialized version of Ne?

 

[wolfy]

The fence building problem was one websites approach to define how each function would act when approached with the task of building a fence. It goes like this:


Ne - I want to design the fence

Ni - Why do they want to do this and what is the deal with fences anyway? Is this necessary?

Se - I want to decorate the fence and make sure that it looks stylish and appealing

Si - I’ll take care of looking at the instructions and making sure that we follow the established guidelines

Te - Is doing this cost effective? Will it be useful?

Ti - I want to analyze the structure and placement of the fence

Fe - How will it affect the neighborhood, and what will the neighbors think?

Fi - I want it to be my own special fence that I can share with others over time


Reading over it today I think there are some errors they've made in the simplification of the functions - namely, this is one cause why I never identified with Se and so strongly with Ne. But merh. If I care so badly for people to get "right" information I should host my own material

True, I would rather design the fence. I would probably be Ne, Se Ti, Te about fence making.

 

[greenfairy]

[MENTION=20622]valaki[/MENTION]

The fence building problem was one websites approach to define how each function would act when approached with the task of building a fence. It goes like this:


Ne - I want to design the fence

Ni - Why do they want to do this and what is the deal with fences anyway? Is this necessary?

Se - I want to decorate the fence and make sure that it looks stylish and appealing

Si - I’ll take care of looking at the instructions and making sure that we follow the established guidelines

Te - Is doing this cost effective? Will it be useful?

Ti - I want to analyze the structure and placement of the fence

Fe - How will it affect the neighborhood, and what will the neighbors think?

Fi - I want it to be my own special fence that I can share with others over time


Reading over it today I think there are some errors they've made in the simplification of the functions - namely, this is one cause why I never identified with Se and so strongly with Ne. But merh. If I care so badly for people to get "right" information I should host my own material

It's funny, my first response is always "...Why? Do we need this?" but then "I think we don't. I'm going to think of something better." And then I like to explore ingenius ideas to do it in ways which are more environmentally friendly and cost effective. For like 10 minutes and then I run off and listen to music.

 

[INTP]

[MENTION=20622]valaki[/MENTION]

The fence building problem was one websites approach to define how each function would act when approached with the task of building a fence. It goes like this:


Ne - I want to design the fence

Ni - Why do they want to do this and what is the deal with fences anyway? Is this necessary?

Se - I want to decorate the fence and make sure that it looks stylish and appealing

Si - I’ll take care of looking at the instructions and making sure that we follow the established guidelines

Te - Is doing this cost effective? Will it be useful?

Ti - I want to analyze the structure and placement of the fence

Fe - How will it affect the neighborhood, and what will the neighbors think?

Fi - I want it to be my own special fence that I can share with others over time


Reading over it today I think there are some errors they've made in the simplification of the functions - namely, this is one cause why I never identified with Se and so strongly with Ne. But merh. If I care so badly for people to get "right" information I should host my own material

So im Ne Ni Ti Te and Fe?

 

[INTP]

It was a rhetorical question.

I was more implying that the processes are not only complex but organized in a different way than assumed by most MBTI fans including the creator of MBTI .

MBTIs mode of personality isnt the complete jungian model, its just some stuff that myers and briggs saw important in what they aimed their test to function in.

Whats this your "true" function organization of functions that is different from MBTI? Also do you even know how MBTI really organizes the functions(most people dont, even tho they think they do)?

 

[valaki]

[MENTION=20622]valaki[/MENTION]

The fence building problem was one websites approach to define how each function would act when approached with the task of building a fence.

What's the exact situation where you are being asked to build a fence? Why am I supposed to build this? Am I going to get money or something else for doing the task?

These are what came first to mind.

It goes like this:


Ne - I want to design the fence

Ni - Why do they want to do this and what is the deal with fences anyway? Is this necessary?

Se - I want to decorate the fence and make sure that it looks stylish and appealing

Si - I’ll take care of looking at the instructions and making sure that we follow the established guidelines

Te - Is doing this cost effective? Will it be useful?

Ti - I want to analyze the structure and placement of the fence

Fe - How will it affect the neighborhood, and what will the neighbors think?

Fi - I want it to be my own special fence that I can share with others over time

Guess then my response of "why" is closest to the Ni one huh? Or me requiring the exact situation first, before really giving an answer, what's that? Se? And the part about what I get in return, what's that? Te?

From the stock answers here, I guess I'm closest to Ni and Ti. Se too but only if I care for a reason, however I wouldn't be doing the decoration myself, I would only make the decisions about its appearance. So that's why I was asking about the exact situation because it depends.

Reading over it today I think there are some errors they've made in the simplification of the functions - namely, this is one cause why I never identified with Se and so strongly with Ne. But merh. If I care so badly for people to get "right" information I should host my own material

How do you determine "right"?

EDIT: btw, I'm not trying to be antagonistic with you. Just wanted to know what you mean by "right". I do encourage you to host your own material if you think it's a good idea.

MBTIs mode of personality isnt the complete jungian model, its just some stuff that myers and briggs saw important in what they aimed their test to function in.

And the jungian theory of functions isn't the complete jungian model.

Whats this your "true" function organization of functions that is different from MBTI?

Who said I had one personally?

It's simple. Compare conclusions drawn from dealing with MBTI stuff to conclusions coming from science of psychology.

(I do have my own thoughts on these matters but it's not something I can just start spreading as something definitely better than anything else. Best I can give at this point is contradictions noted from observations.)

Also do you even know how MBTI really organizes the functions(most people dont, even tho they think they do)?

Whatever's on http://www.myersbriggs.org/. Do you disagree with that?

 

[INTP]

And the jungian theory of functions isn't the complete jungian model.

Thats why i said personality, not functions.

Who said I had one personally?

It's simple. Compare conclusions drawn from dealing with MBTI stuff to conclusions coming from science of psychology.

(I do have my own thoughts on these matters but it's not something I can just start spreading as something definitely better than anything else. Best I can give at this point is contradictions noted from observations.)

You said that MBTI model is wrong, if you make that claim, you should be able to tell whats wrong with it and why. You know i hear new people coming up with their crazy ideas all the time about the organization of functions and none of them were any good. So excuse my pessimism towards your ideas before you actually explain your ideas.

Whatever's on http://www.myersbriggs.org/. Do you disagree with that?

Well what does it say about the I/E of tert function there?