_

[DiscoBiscuit]

I'll agree with you there. That feeds into the "coolness under fire" dimension of psychopathy, and ENTJs have that in spades. OTOH, watch out for any manifestation of the "impulsivity" dimension. That one will definitely get you into hot water in the finance arena.

The impulsiveness thing is more of a play issue than a work issue luckily.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Disco, I just don't see you as a psychopath. Yeah, gradients exist, but at a certain point you have to draw the line.

Do you unfeelingly swindle people out of considerable sums of money?
Do you torture small animals just to exert control over them (skinning them alive, stabbing them, battering them etc.)?
Do you deliberately lie at the sharp expense of others?

From above.

I don't think I am one.

I just think I've got some similarities.

 

[RDF]

The impulsiveness thing is more of a play issue than a work issue luckily.

Sounds good. Work hard, play hard.

 

[baccheion]

I was responding to.....



I'm saying I'm a normal well adjusted person who has psychopathic traits that benefit me greatly. I still value and have empathy for other people just not in the same measures others do.

One would think this thread was created for people like myself to express what its like, but if you have no interest in learning what its like to be different then I've got nothing for you.

So if your done with your crusade to round up the villagers and light the torches, please leave.

Being a psychopath makes you a psychopath, not having certain positive traits. I am also confident, cool under pressure, and able to analyze things "dispassionately," but I'm clearly not a psychopath (lack of empathy and the other negative BS). I also have the trait of being accused of being a psychopath, but I guess that's not a trait because psychopaths aren't usually spotted, unless it's by people like me. And I don't really spot them, it's more like they spot me, or they get spooked when their charm and BS doesn't work, and so they go into attack mode.

I will never apologize for or stop attacking the negative psychopathic traits or stop saying psychopathy is a bad thing, and in the same vein, I will always fight to make the distinction between a real psychopath and those who won't necessarily sit there and pamper the more needy and emotional.

If you are lacking empathy or remorse and can move to violence or anything else that's harmful to others without even batting an eyelash, then I take it all back because then I think you have problems. Such a self-centered no holds barred existence is dangerous to those around you. Could you slit my throat without blinking twice, even though you aren't (I assume) a trained killer? That would be worrisome. Sometimes you don't have to be a psychopath to have to assess and reign in who you are, but I doubt things are that bad.

I guess my point is that I understand the accusations, and it shouldn't surprise you that an INTP like myself is accused of such things, as you probably hear it complained about all the time, but whatever.

Also, I didn't know this thread was about those with psychopathic traits sharing, I thought it was more a discussion about the pros of being a psychopath and if being a psychopath is such a bad thing, and I had to jump in and say that, yes, while there are pros to being a psychopath it is a very bad thing, and shouldn't be exalted not even a little bit. I also needed to say that there is no need to be a psychopath to learn or have their positive traits.

Here is an online tests for psychopathy:

http://www.counseling-office.com/surveys/test_psychopathy.phtml
http://personality-testing.info/tests/LSRP.php
http://psychcentral.com/quizzes/psychopathy.htm

Obviously a brain scan is the way to determine this, but for those wondering where they land, this might help.

 

[Ginkgo]

You get to be a class clown.

Make it go away.

 

[Nicodemus]

I bet [MENTION=10757]Nicodemus[/MENTION] is in the same boat I am on this.

On what? Being less empathic than others or finding psychopathic traits valuable?

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Being a psychopath makes you a psychopath, not having certain positive traits. I am also confident, cool under pressure, and able to analyze things "dispassionately," but I'm clearly not a psychopath (lack of empathy and the other negative BS). I also have the trait of being accused of being a psychopath, but I guess that's not a trait because psychopaths aren't usually spotted, unless it's by people like me. And I don't really spot them, it's more like they spot me, or they get spooked when their charm and BS doesn't work, and so they go into attack mode.

I will never apologize for or stop attacking the negative psychopathic traits or stop saying psychopathy is a bad thing, and in the same vein, I will always fight to make the distinction between a real psychopath and and those who won't necessarily sit there and pamper the more needy and emotional.

If you are lacking empathy and can move to violence or anything else that's harmful to others without even batting an eyelash, then I take it all back because then I think you have problems. Such a self-centered no holds barred existence is dangerous to those around you.

Given that you've been on TypoC for all of about 5 minutes, I feel comfortable taking everything you say with a substantial grain of salt.

Look in the mirror before you tell others you think they have problems.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

On what? Being less empathic than others or finding psychopathic traits valuable?

A little of both.

And just some traits, like coolness under pressure and being able to dispassionately analyze problems etc...

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

You get to be a class clown.

Gacy was always clowning around.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Had I not been raised by a loving family, I think I could have turned out much differently.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

The OP was about how many folks with traits benefit from them in the business world, and that one can have the traits and be a very successful, normal, and happy person.

 

[baccheion]

Given that you've been on TypoC for all of about 5 minutes, I feel comfortable taking everything you say with a substantial grain of salt.

Look in the mirror before you tell others you think they have problems.

This is absolute foolishness. It's almost as though you didn't read the post. And why would the length of my tenure here have anything to do with the worth of what I have to say? Then again, I should know better than to try to discuss anything with the typical ENTJ. It almost invariably is seen as an attack, and even if not, it quickly becomes about winning and ego rather than reaching some sort of understanding.

The OP was about how many folks with traits benefit from them in the business world, and that one can have the traits and be a very successful, normal, and happy person.

It wasn't necessarily about that, but that is something that seems relevant to the discussion.

 

[Nicodemus]

A little of both.

And just some traits, like coolness under pressure and being able to dispassionately analyze problems etc...

I can be exceedingly empathic, just not on a great scale or for very long. Coolness and detachment, I think, have more to do with prudence than with psychopathy.

Obviously, such traits have their place in individual lives, in evolution and society. To some degree, they are, as others have said, present on all of us. But the stronger they are and the more you have of them, the less beneficial they are to those around you, because actual psychopaths live for themselves. So, the pros of being a wolf are pros for the wolf only, not for the sheep around him.

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

Had I not been raised by a loving family, I think I could have turned out much differently.

Jeffrey Dahmer was raised by a loving family, he also loved animals. The following is gruesome:

He still took showers with headless corpses at his feet and tried to turn people into zombies by injecting chemicals into their brains.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

This is absolute foolishness. It's almost as though you didn't read the post. And why would the length of my tenure here have anything to do with the worth of what I have to say? Then again, I should know better than to try to discuss anything with the typical ENTJ. It almost invariably is seen as an attack, and even if not, it quickly becomes about winning and ego rather than reaching some sort of understanding.

And you display the typical INTP nancy boy bullshit.

You waste my time every bit as much as I waste yours.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Jeffrey Dahmer was raised by a loving family, he also loved animals. He still took showers with headless corpses at his feet and tried to turn people into zombies by injecting chemicals into their brains.

The fact that a loving family didn't help him does not mean it didn't help me.

 

[RDF]

The OP was about how many folks with traits benefit from them in the business world, and that one can have the traits and be a very successful, normal, and happy person.

I think the main objection to that point of view is that it only works if you can cherry-pick the best traits of an illness and discard the rest. But a personality disorder is, in fact, a motley mix. Hard to be good at just *some* parts of an illness.

Secondarily, I would point out that there are 12 or 14 or whatever personality disorders, many of them co-morbid. Most of them involve lack of empathy; many of them can be pretty cold-blooded. I worked for one of the world's top surgeons at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore many years ago, as his secretary. He was a cold SOB, hated his patients, and loved cutting. Surgery was his thing, not people. But that didn't make him a psychopath. I think in fact, that he was an INTP with a touch of Schizoid Personality Disorder.

In other words, it's hard to parse these characteristics. Given a list of traits, it really takes a pro to determine whether it's Antisocial Personality Disorder (psychopathy) or Narcissistic Personality Disorder, or Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder or some other disorder.

It's all pretty muddy. In that context, cherry-picking a couple traits out of the air and lauding them as a "good type of psychopathy" sounds a little fake.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I can be exceedingly empathic, just not on a great scale or for very long. Coolness and detachment, I think, have more to do with prudence than with psychopathy.

Obviously, such traits have their place in individual lives, in evolution and society. To some degree, they are, as others have said, present on all of us. But the stronger they are and the more you have of them, the less beneficial they are to those around you, because actual psychopaths live for themselves. So, the pros of being a wolf are pros for the wolf only, not for the sheep around him.

All things in moderation my friend.

 

[ndovjtjcaqidthi]

The fact that a loving family didn't help him does not mean it didn't help me.

I'm not saying it didn't help you. I'm saying that it doesn't stop people from being psychopaths.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I think the main objection to that point of view is that it only works if you can cherry-pick the best traits of an illness and discard the rest. But a personality disorder is, in fact, a motley mix. Hard to be good at just *some* parts of an illness.

Secondarily, I would point out that there are 12 or 14 or whatever personality disorders, many of them co-morbid. Most of them involve lack of empathy; many of them can be pretty cold-blooded. I worked for one of the world's top surgeons at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore many years ago, as his secretary. He was a cold SOB, hated his patients, and loved cutting. Surgery was his thing, not people. But that didn't make him a psychopath. I think in fact, that he was an INTP with a touch of Schizoid Personality Disorder.

In other words, it's hard to parse these characteristics. Given a list of traits, it really takes a pro to determine whether it's Antisocial Personality Disorder (psychopathy) or Narcissistic Personality Disorder, or Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder or some other disorder.

It's all pretty muddy. In that context, cherry-picking a couple traits out of the air and lauding them as a "good type of psychopathy" sounds a little fake.

It's most certainly muddy.

And that's my main point. There is a flip side to the Gacy Dahmer coin, all those well adjusted finance people, surgeons etc. out there.

Just because someone isn't as empathetic as a hands across America type does not make them a monster.

And in fact, many folks who have some of these traits are high functioning successful people with loving families.