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  1. #11
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    1w2 so/sx


    Thank you for the response @Nicoleta. I appreciate it when I've ventured to give the clumsy version of my observation to have someone to refine it and define it properly.

    Oh! One thing I thought of later - sometimes things that get thrown out there as "fact" about you are actually only a working hypothesis, except the NFJ types often assume that everyone thinks like that, so they forget to mention that what sounds like a statement is always up for negotiation, nuance, correction and so on.

    Inversely, Te statements are the same way. With my ESTJ former boyfriend, I never realized that he was actually much less decided than he sounded about some things that to me sounded like solid plans and was actually indirectly asking for my input. I don't usually verbalize decisions until I'm really sure that that's what I want. People related statements though are totally up for grabs and I'm always sorting, recategorizing, etc.

    One thing others find somewhat unsettling is the NFJ drive to understand how people work, and to analyze other people even when they aren't around to try to figure out their behaviour (so they can respond more appropriately). For me, there is no greater compliment that someone truly trying to understand me and get to know me well, so it sometimes doesn't occur to me that other people might not appreciate that in the same way.

    Often NFJ people are much more focussed on the intended outcome rather than on process. So when you try to help them work through the process, they will become impatient unless they can see how it's directly leading towards the goal of the interaction. For NFP types, it seems to me that they are much more process oriented than outcome oriented, so they are more likely to see where the process takes them. They find value in the process even more than in what it yields.

    Your feelings are valid, so rather than suppressing them, perhaps just adding to the information you have to understand what the other person is doing will help with your frustration at the situation. Then you can at least explain to your friend how those assumptions affect you. She might not really understand at first, but once she is alerted to the differences, I think it will influence her interactions.

    (Oh yeah - I also forgot. NFJs can seem rather closed to other's input at first, but they do tend to mull over what you have to say, test it for truth, see where it fits in and try to implement some change over time. So, just be patient - they're hearing more than you may initially think).

    Anyway, don't know if any of this is new or helpful to you. Usual disclaimer that I am not speaking for all NFJs or NFPs, but just am describing trends I've noticed.

  2. #12
    MyPeeSmellsLikeCoffee247 five sounds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    729 sx/sp
    IEE Ne


    @Z Buck McFate I like your theory. I can definitely relate to not feeling urgency to change feelings since they're constantly being worked out internally. Right on the money there. I can also appreciate the other viewpoint, seeing feelings as symptomatic of an external problem that needs to be solved. With better understanding and communication between my Fe friends and I, I can see how this external focus to problems could really be beneficial to me, since I tend to search inward for answers. And maybe they could benefit from a little Fi insight too, who knows

    @fidelia I can't even tell you how much I appreciate your openness and willingness to talk through this with me. I think NFJs and NFPs can relate somewhat to each other's desire to understand people. Ne being my dominant function, I am constantly analyZing connections between people and figuring people out from an N perspective, where it appears that Fe desires something very similar from an F point of view. I believe this comes from a genuine love of people, and I know that adjusting to other people's social vibes can be interpreted as disingenuous by others who don't understand Ne.

    It's nice to hear about the presentation of a working hypothesis as 'fact' without explicitly stating it's true nature. I admit I can be turned off by people stating things as fact when I feel that it's only their opinion or personal point of view. I don't have any problems with working hypotheses though, and am excited to deal with them and talk to others about their ideas. Hopefully I can keep this in mind, and get into some really meaty discussions with my NFJ friends now without letting that initial negative reaction ruin it.

    @Honor You are sweet as pie. I admire how you picked that one sentence out and chose to validate me in that way. You picked out the most conflicted notion in that whole mess of text.

    Overall, I'm very appreciative of the open, mutually understanding, and candid nature of this entire thread. I feel like I have a tendency to present things in a really rough draft-y and clumsy way, and that's not always accepted as a valid jumping off point for a discussion. But working it out like this is seriously the most salient way for me to understand my feelings and actions and those of others. I hate the idea of being intolerant of another person's way of thinking or processing, and I am grateful to have people patient enough with my reactions and half-baked ideas to help me see the other sides of things.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

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