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Which Functions Conflict The Most?

Standuble

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I would say a person's dominant functions would find conflict with their inferior function when is expressed as dominant and auxiliary by another. The key being the stacking. I am tinkering with an idea (though I don't know how universal it would be) that a person would only be happy with one of their inferior functions being used if it is them using it.

I have my doubts that any functions are guaranteed to be in conflict purely through their own inherent characteristics. It comes down to the personality of the person. For example I have seen plenty of Fi/Ti tension but I have also seen envy and admiration. The same for Si/Ni, Se/Ne, Ti/Te etc.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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why Ti & Fi but not Te & Fe?
or are you just not in a position to experience much of the later?

also at this point, wouldn't it make more sense to list the functions that don't conflict?

i don't think i ever had a conflict with an SP's Se. i may have had conflicts with NJ's inferior Se, but i am still not sure if that's correct to attribute it to so.
I don't think I have a complete understanding of Si and Se, but encounter some conflicts based on Si having an internalized ideal or personal need for how to live in the external world, while Se is constantly exploring new experiences and sensations.

In music I see this expressed with Si holding to an absolute ideal of what is the best music, how is it best performed, what is the ideal technique and the one best way to teach it, etc. Se can seem rebellious against these ideals by wanting to try out everything and focuses more on breadth than depth.

I remember a Se-dom poster here a couple of years ago starting a thread about a conflict with sexuality she had with her Si-dom partner. She wanted it different every time and to be adventurous, while he had a narrower range of ways he enjoyed it. I suspect the same can be true for approaching food, or anything.

My impression is that since these preferences play out in the concrete world there is more tendency for people's preferences to bump into each other while Ni and Ne can stay in idea space, so people can come together to compare differences, but then retreat and recuperate from differences.

This is just a hypothesis and not really a conclusion, so further input would be interesting.
 
G

garbage

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The OP's specific list and general principle are probably right.

Of those, if we're to believe the forum, Fi and Fe conflict the most, bar none. Somehow, this happens regardless of where they are in one's function stacking.
 

Avocado

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The OP's specific list and general principle are probably right.

Of those, if we're to believe the forum, Fi and Fe conflict the most, bar none. Somehow, this happens regardless of where they are in one's function stacking.
Very true…
 

The Great One

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why Ti & Fi but not Te & Fe?
or are you just not in a position to experience much of the later?

also at this point, wouldn't it make more sense to list the functions that don't conflict?

i don't think i ever had a conflict with an SP's Se. i may have had conflicts with NJ's inferior Se, but i am still not sure if that's correct to attribute it to so.

Yes, you are right, Te and Fe definitely conflict. Also I never said that Ne and Ni conflict with Se, I said they conflict with Si. Ne especially conflicts with Si because Si constantly has the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality and just want everything to stay the same all the time. While on the other hand, Ne constantly wants to change things, and wants new stuff all the time. It causes a huge rift between the two.
 

sulfit

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Ti and Te.
Fi and Fe.
Si and Se.
Ni and Ne.

These function pairs just don't get along when acting as dominants in two different people respectively.

For example, Ti and Te doms are constantly at war with each other. The relationship could be characterized as nerds vs. bullies. Fe doesn't bother Ti nearly as much as Te. Fe may only seem annoying to them in comparison. Fi and Fe I've heard tend to quarrel over matters, but I'm not sure why.

Si and Se - I've seen Se react strongly against Si, but I don't know why. And I don't know what kind of sparks fly between Ni vs. Ne.

Looking for answers here...

They exist on perpendicular planes.
The introverted functions are analytical - the extraverted ones are utilitarian.
The introverted functions are self-referential - the extraverted ones are extended to others and the environment.

These functional mismatches is what prompted socionics to develop a theory of intertype relationships. In this theory the types that get along best are those who share cognitive functions, all of them or at least one pair. The types that constantly misunderstand one another are those which don't share any functions in common; these are placed in opposing quadra (beta - delta, alpha - gamma).
 

Avocado

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Yes, you are right, Te and Fe definitely conflict. Also I never said that Ne and Ni conflict with Se, I said they conflict with Si. Ne especially conflicts with Si because Si constantly has the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality and just want everything to stay the same all the time. While on the other hand, Ne constantly wants to change things, and wants new stuff all the time. It causes a huge rift between the two.

What if it can be made better?
 
S

Society

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I never said that Ne and Ni conflict with Se
i wasn't contradicting you - i was following my own advice in that "at this point we should probably try to list the functions that don't conflict".


Ne especially conflicts with Si because Si constantly has the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality and just want everything to stay the same all the time. While on the other hand, Ne constantly wants to change things, and wants new stuff all the time. It causes a huge rift between the two.

thats sort of interesting isn't it? Ne & Si seem to be cognitively tied together - two sides of the same brain slice - but on the sociological level they are often outright political rivals.

i'm not sure if Si is just "wanting to keep things the same" - i think there might be a strong correlation between Si and the yearning to "the good old days" - the attempt to recreate a past perfect point in time that never existed objectively as a moment (since it's actually an eclectic composition of memories melded into one over time).

I don't think I have a complete understanding of Si and Se, but encounter some conflicts based on Si having an internalized ideal or personal need for how to live in the external world, while Se is constantly exploring new experiences and sensations.

In music I see this expressed with Si holding to an absolute ideal of what is the best music, how is it best performed, what is the ideal technique and the one best way to teach it, etc. Se can seem rebellious against these ideals by wanting to try out everything and focuses more on breadth than depth.

I remember a Se-dom poster here a couple of years ago starting a thread about a conflict with sexuality she had with her Si-dom partner. She wanted it different every time and to be adventurous, while he had a narrower range of ways he enjoyed it. I suspect the same can be true for approaching food, or anything.

My impression is that since these preferences play out in the concrete world there is more tendency for people's preferences to bump into each other while Ni and Ne can stay in idea space, so people can come together to compare differences, but then retreat and recuperate from differences.

This is just a hypothesis and not really a conclusion, so further input would be interesting.

i can sort of see that happening, i suppose what i didn't think of when i asked you this is.. the population of this discussion, because right now this is sort of reminding me of those abortion debate where all debaters are men. it would be interesting to have feedback from SPs and SJs on the matter.
 

unicorncandy

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I think Fi and Fe, in intimate relationships at least. I've noticed for me, with ENTPs our biggest conflicts have to do with completely misunderstanding each other in the feelings department, but if we can come back to a place of logic it works out ok. With INFJs, I think it is ok because we have the first and last functions in common, so some how there is more of a balance. I never get along well with ESFJs, but I like ENFJs, even though they are mean to me sometimes (maybe that was just my ex.) ISFJ? I think I've always wished I could have more of the traits of one, but I've never dated one and have no ISFJ friends, so I don't know how we'd get along. I don't think I even know any ESTPs, but my INFJ sister married an ISTP and he is awesome. I'm rambling and have no point.
 

Jaguar

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i'm not sure if Si is just "wanting to keep things the same" - i think there might be a strong correlation between Si and the yearning to "the good old days"

Upon asking a physician why a certain test must be performed at a specific time, she commented: "It's always been done that way." I told her that was not an acceptable answer.
 
S

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I wonder what it would be like for a Ne-dom to be raised by Ni-dom parents. The norm seems to be ENxP kid, SJ parents. I have no idea what the former relationship dynamic would look like.
 

Avocado

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I wonder what it would be like for a Ne-dom to be raised by Ni-dom parents. The norm seems to be ENxP kid, SJ parents. I have no idea what the former relationship dynamic would look like.

If my father would have lived, I would have an ENFP father.
 
S

Society

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I wonder what it would be like for a Ne-dom to be raised by Ni-dom parents. The norm seems to be ENxP kid, SJ parents. I have no idea what the former relationship dynamic would look like.

hmm? my father was an INTJ, i'm probably an ENTP... i suppose my family fits the bill (except that my mother is an ENFP, so only one Ni-dom parent)... otherwise my sister seems to be the odd one out (ISFP).

unfortunately, the question of "how is it to be raised by..." is too lacking in specifics or any point of comparison to answer. how was it to be raised by SJ parents?
 

The Great One

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[MENTION=15291]Mane[/MENTION]

1. No from my experience, SJ's hate change. They like routine, and they like familiarity. I've found that SJ's have the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" policy.

2. Another interesting functional rivalry has to do with Ni vs. Se. It seems like Se users want to experience everything and get their feet wet. Se doms are the types of people that live for the moment and don't want to think of the future. Also, Se users want to learn by doing, and learn from experience. Se is very action oriented and is great at taking immediate action in the present moment. Se also is very aware of their outer surroundings and is very detail oriented. On the other hand, you have the opposite function of Ni. The Ni function often sucks at learning by doing. Ni wants to study something for what seems like forever before actually doing it. I think that when Ni users study something, they can see how it would work in their heads very easily. Then, once they actually do something, it's almost like they've already done it 1000 times before because they basically had such a clear understanding of it through studying it. Ni users also have intuitive visions of the future in their heads, and are future oriented many times because of this. Many times, they have a clear idea of what's gonna happen, before it happens. The two functions are very different indeed.
 

OrangeAppled

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I should add that INFPs are equally capable of hurting other people's feelings... I don't think many INFPs are as empathetic as they like to think they are. Fi doms will bully if they think it serves some "good", or even if they have just decided that the person in question is "unacceptable".

This is BECAUSE we empathize well. Empathy does not have to lead to compassion. It is simply a grasp of how & why someone feels a certain way. That can be used for evil. People's soft spots are sussed out.

Moreover, if they've decided someone has "potential" to be something they find more acceptable, they will nag the person in question in spite of obvious signs of how uncomfortable it's making the other person. To me, that feels like bullying, even if the INFP doesn't see it that way. I can and do tell them, but they may not always listen. Anyway, a naturally empathetic type should be able to see the signs of discomfort... I don't exactly have a poker face.

Nudging towards potential is NF territory. But INFPs are the least nudgey of all the NFs... hands down. This is because we're least likely to presume we know how someone else feels or what they need, but our role tends to be helping someone discover & clarify such things. Active listening is the noted strength of INFPs....

I've noticed that FPs have a tendency to say stuff like "your bad attitude is making me uncomfortable." And, then I'm being selfish because I'm not just "being happy" (as though it were that easy for me) for the other person's sake! To me, that's not actually empathy, either, as the other person is only a secondary concern.

That sounds so FJ to me, I can't even fathom an FP saying it.... Fi is notorious for having an impervious wall to influence from others' feelings & emotions. Your bad attitude is easily ignored by me! I'm waaaay more likely to be on the receiving end of such a statement, and likely from an FJ.

"Their outward demeanour is harmonious and inconspicuous; they reveal a delightful repose, a sympathetic parallelism, which has no desire to affect others, either to impress, influence, or change them in any way." - Jung on Fi-dom.

Fi is... something different. Fi is digesting cues and feeling tones, and then determining whether or not they are acceptable. (That's all I've been able to figure out about Fi so far.) If you're less able to adjust to these feeling tones and have to submit them to an internal system of quality control, you're going to place less of a concern on how other people think.

Nope. Not Fi. First part sounds like it might be SiFe though (confuising ISFJs with INFPs? Likely).

That Dario Nardi experiment shows NFPs blowing all the other types out of the water as far as empathic thinking goes. Empathy is not adjusting yourself to someone else's feelings. Empathy is an identification of how & why someone feels a certain way, and grasping it so deeply you can mimic it inside yourself. That can lead to a sympathetic adjustment, but the two are not always connected.

I never think, "How would I feel in their shoes?", but "How would I feel if I were them in their shoes?". Fi types spend a lot of time exploring their inner self as a template for the human condition, so that the know what it is to feel a great variety of emotions & the nuance of meaning in these. Ne in particular sort of grasps the essence of someone, imaginatively simulates them, and connects it to the grasp of the general human condition so as to get a good likelihood of why they feel as they do. I may not ever feel angry for whatever reason someone else is, but I know what it is to be angry, and I know what that signifies, and so I can appreciate the value someone has assigned to something & the level of violation they are experiencing. Compassion comes in when I feel moved to alleviate it somehow.

FJs have a very hard time with "foreign" feelings. They either need to relate it to themselves or someone they know who has experienced a similar thing or to the general idea of how people feel in such a situation, and then they judge your response by whether it is "normal". If it's normal, then it's deemed worthy of sympathy & compassion, which they are very good at offering. If not, then they can be dismissive or critical, or they may jump to sympathy just to appease you with no empathy behind it.

If you are disturbing the peace with your mood, then FJs get pissy. They like consensus of feeling, where everyone adjusts to the temperature of the room, so to speak. If everyone is sad & you're chipper, then you're being inappropriate to them - genuine inner state is beside the point. FPs allow for individuals to have their own moods, even if not aligned with the group, because invalidation is the horror of horrors.
 
R

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I assume types with the same judging functions could get along better with one another than types with the same perceiving function.

TPs and FJs
FPs and TJs
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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That sounds so FJ to me, I can't even fathom an FP saying it.... Fi is notorious for having an impervious wall to influence from others' feelings & emotions. Your bad attitude is easily ignored by me! I'm waaaay more likely to be on the receiving end of such a statement, and likely from an FJ.

I've had two ESFPs say this to me, and no FJs.

I think it might be more of a Fi aux thing, though. The Fi doms don't seem to really do this.

By the way, read the description for introverted ethics or feeling and how it manifests on Fi auxiliaries. Both of them mention a need to shape feelings of others to better match their own. I can see them getting quite upset when the person refuses to go along.

ENFP

ESfp

SEE has a very sharp understanding of people's attitude towards his suggestions, as well as their mood in general. The primary method of implementation for the SEE's goals is changing people's attitudes to be more in line with his own towards a certain objective.

Attitudes and feelings need to fit the ESFP's (SEE) will. The other person is of secondary importance. Hence, why a person needs to "shape up'' because they are being a "raincloud" and a major bummer.



This is BECAUSE we empathize well. Empathy does not have to lead to compassion. It is simply a grasp of how & why someone feels a certain way. That can be used for evil. People's soft spots are sussed out.

So you admit that FPs are not necessarily the font of human goodness they want others to believe they are?

I don't think Fi actually deserves all the hated I've been placing on it. It's pretty nice when the self-righteous and "authenticity" seeking is in check.

In other words, Fi like Ti, to work properly, has to have reference tot the external world, and not get lost in itself.
 

OrangeAppled

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I've had two ESFPs say this to me, and no FJs.

I think it might be more of a Fi aux thing, though. The Fi doms don't seem to really do this.

By the way, read the description for introverted ethics or feeling and how it manifests on Fi auxiliaries. Both of them mention a need to shape feelings of others to better match their own. I can see them getting quite upset when the person refuses to go along.

ENFP

ESfp

Attitudes and feelings need to fit the ESFP's (SEE) will. The other person is of secondary importance. Hence, why a person needs to "shape up'' because they are being a "raincloud" and a major bummer.

Oh that's socionics, not Jungian types. I don't relate to socionics Fi very much at all & may not even be a Fi type in that system. It sounds ways too....Fe. I use MBTI & Jungian Fi.

ESFPs are most critical of my moods, but these are often the e7s who don't want people raining on their happy parade. I think it's a sensitivity to others' moods in the sense that they take it personally - you don't like them, you're mad at them, etc. But many I know are moody themselves & mostly forgiving of it in others.

I will agree there is a difference with Fi-dom and Fi-aux in general too. EFPs "parent" others with Fi, if you go by function models. But this usually means a kind of championing of the underdog.

EFPs can come off as very opinionated too, IMO, but they tend to direct it at ideas/things (Pe) over individual people.

So you admit that FPs are not necessarily the font of human goodness they want others to believe they are?

That sounds like the INFJs to me. They seem seriously pained to admit any flaw in themselves. Although if you're using socionics, then we're talking about different things again.

I don't know any Fi-dom who desire or promote that reputation. A lot complain that INFP profiles are too saccharine & they wonder briefly if they are INTPs because they are not that "nice" and can get cynical about the world (dashed idealism).

I don't think Fi actually deserves all the hated I've been placing on it. It's pretty nice when the self-righteous and "authenticity" seeking is in check.

In other words, Fi like Ti, to work properly, has to have reference tot the external world, and not get lost in itself.

True of any introvert, yes.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

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Oh that's socionics, not Jungian types. I don't relate to socionics Fi very much at all & may not even be a Fi type in that system. It sounds ways too....Fe. I use MBTI & Jungian Fi.

Well, keep in mind that you are a socionics INFj, also. They go by whether the dominant function is judging or percieving. Since I am an introverted thinker, and not an introverted intuitive by any stretch, I am an INTj.

Socionics is derived from Jung... I've been looking at that to learn more about what the functions are. I haven't been able to find any other source that "systematizes" the functions so well. If you know of one, let me know.
ESFPs are most critical of my moods, but these are often the e7s who don't want people raining on their happy parade. I think it's a sensitivity to others' moods in the sense that they take it personally - you don't like them, you're mad at them, etc. But many I know are moody themselves & mostly forgiving of it in others.

I'm not sure if the people I'm thinking of are e7s or not, but it drives me nuts. Just telling me to "be happy" doesn't do anything! If it was, then why are there any unhappy in the world at all?

I will agree there is a difference with Fi-dom and Fi-aux in general too. EFPs "parent" others with Fi, if you go by function models. But this usually means a kind of championing of the underdog.

It can take that form, but I don't really like when people pity me, because then I always get the sense that they think I would be more happier if I became like them. But I tried being an SP/NF for 4-6 years in my early 20s, and it didn't make me that happy.

EFPs can come off as very opinionated too, IMO, but they tend to direct it at ideas/things (Pe) over individual people.

Do you mean ENFPs? Or was that not a typo. It seems like the ESFP might have a cause, but maybe only one or two of them... otherwise, they're more likely to have opinions about people, which makes them come off as pragmatic rather than idealistic. To be honest, though the image of an ENFP in my mind is the stereotypical hippy. Although, like stereotypes usually are, that's probably way off the mark for most of the actual ENFPs here.

The IxFPs are often more "buttoned down'' than their extraverted counterparts, and it's not unusual for them to be (note the lowercase) much more conservative in their habits.

That sounds like the INFJs to me. They seem seriously pained to admit any flaw in themselves.

My sister is an INFJ, and that doesn't sound like her. She probably has had, over the course of her lifetime, worse self-esteem issues than I ever did.



I don't know any Fi-dom who desire or promote that reputation. A lot complain that INFP profiles are too saccharine

Come to think of it, you're right. They sort of don't like people who are "goody two-shoes" or are too self-sacrificing, either.

& they wonder briefly if they are INTPs because they are not that "nice" and can get cynical about the world (dashed idealism).

Ah, but under every cynic is an idealist. Somewhere inside me is an idealist, as well. I've let it out of it's cage a few times recently here. I think dopey sweet thoughts sometimes, but I usually don't reveal them to people unless I'm very familiar with them and I trust them... like "wow man, we really are all one species." It makes me want to roll my eyes to read that I even wrote that, yet I cannot help but feel that on some level, it's true.
 
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