Fi vs. Ti and active listening skills

[The Great One]

So according to mbti expert Dario Nardi, Fi users are amazing at active listening and Ti users basically suck at it. Do you think that this is accurate? I'm personally a Ti user and I can tell you right now that I suck at active listening. What do the rest of you have to say about this?

 

[Standuble]

This is something that has interested me as well. Speaking primarily from personal experience I would say Fi users have the capacity for active listening but not necessarily the desire (probably Te's influence seeking to resolve the problem instead) whilst Ti users have a poor capacity but an automatic (if sometimes clumsy) desire to due to Fe. However in the end Ti users would seek to analyze the incoming data whilst Fi users would seek to evaluate it. In both cases the process would occupy the conscious mind and distract towards mere hearing.

I need to take another look at Nardi's work I think.

 

[Stansmith]

I suck at listening and I'm a Fi user

 

[The Great One]

This is something that has interested me as well. Speaking primarily from personal experience I would say Fi users have the capacity for active listening but not necessarily the desire (probably Te's influence seeking to resolve the problem instead) whilst Ti users have a poor capacity but an automatic (if sometimes clumsy) desire to due to Fe. However in the end Ti users would seek to analyze the incoming data whilst Fi users would seek to evaluate it. In both cases the process would occupy the conscious mind and distract towards mere hearing.

I need to take another look at Nardi's work I think.

Yeah, but supposedly the Fi users will be more attentive to listening because they relate everything back to themselves. I know that I don't. Personally, like you just said, I basically just analyze everything and it distracts me from listening.

I suck at listening and I'm a Fi user

Sorry I actually meant xxFP types not tertiary Fi users. I should have clarified.

 

[Southern Kross]

I do think Fi users are good at this because we're constantly trying to unlock the meaning behind things. In this sense we're not just hearing the words, our brains are highly and directly engaged with the content. I often approach people and the things they say like they're a puzzle or riddle that I'm trying to decipher.

However, I don't think this means we always listen well, though. At times someone will say something to me that will spark a thought or distract me in some way and then I can end up more engaged in the tangential thinking than the immediate conversation. Both Se and Ne can interrupt that Fi attentiveness.

I don't think that Ti users intend to be bad listeners, or that they're lazy in that regard (just as I don't think Fi does it to be virtuous), but the often don't seem as invested in a conversation. It can be like they're sitting back and watching a sports match; they're taking it in and may be interested in the goings on, but they're not all that personally wrapped up in what happens or who wins. I think Ti values impartiality and personal separation from a system. Ti-users like to set things in motion and just see how things play out. They might encourage things along the way, but they'll leave the personal conclusions to afterwards. Would you agree [MENTION=15607]The Great One[/MENTION]?

 

[21%]

I don't think any function makes anyone a better listener in terms of skills. Most of the time it depends on the individual and how invested they are in the conversation. However, I think other functions will most likely try to 'fix' the situation, and that can get in the way of listening. Ti-users like to summarize the situation and find a principle to apply to it to solve the problem, and Fe-users will try to make you feel better by making suggestions of what you can do to eliminate the conflict. In my experience, Fi doesn't really do theses things, so it gives people the assurance that they are really being heard.

My ISFP friend is the greatest listener ever -- very patient and kind and non-judgmental.

 

[Southern Kross]

I don't think any function makes anyone a better listener in terms of skills. Most of the time it depends on the individual and how invested they are in the conversation. However, I think other functions will most likely try to 'fix' the situation, and that can get in the way of listening. Ti-users like to summarize the situation and find a principle to apply to it to solve the problem, and Fe-users will try to make you feel better by making suggestions of what you can do to eliminate the conflict. In my experience, Fi doesn't really do theses things, so it gives people the assurance that they are really being heard.

My ISFP friend is the greatest listener ever -- very patient and kind and non-judgmental.

I don't think it necessarily makes Fi users more sympathetic and supportive listeners - I don't know that this is a function related factor. From what I remember Nardi said that, when listening, specific parts of a Fi users' brain light up in a way that suggests their brain is highly engaged. But Nardi also said only 2 (I think?) types use the logic centres of the brain, while all other types use other sections to make do. This doesn't mean that only 2 types are 'logical' - it just means that for most types, logical thinking is achieved through other, more unexpectedly indirect, methods.

But perhaps you are right that more engagement may lead to more patient listening.

 

[citizen cane]

It depends on the day and if I really feel like caring.

 

[Stanton Moore]

Why would Fi users be good at listening? ? What is the relationship?

 

[The Great One]

I do think Fi users are good at this because we're constantly trying to unlock the meaning behind things. In this sense we're not just hearing the words, our brains are highly and directly engaged with the content. I often approach people and the things they say like they're a puzzle or riddle that I'm trying to decipher.

However, I don't think this means we always listen well, though. At times someone will say something to me that will spark a thought or distract me in some way and then I can end up more engaged in the tangential thinking than the immediate conversation. Both Se and Ne can interrupt that Fi attentiveness.

I don't think that Ti users intend to be bad listeners, or that they're lazy in that regard (just as I don't think Fi does it to be virtuous), but the often don't seem as invested in a conversation. It can be like they're sitting back and watching a sports match; they're taking it in and may be interested in the goings on, but they're not all that personally wrapped up in what happens or who wins. I think Ti values impartiality and personal separation from a system. Ti-users like to set things in motion and just see how things play out. They might encourage things along the way, but they'll leave the personal conclusions to afterwards. Would you agree The Great One?

I'm not really sure if I agree with the Ti part. I think that Ti users who have not yet developed Fe can be very impersonal, however once you develop strong Fe you tend to be much more emotionally attached to the conversation. Personally, I believe that the reason that I suck at listening is that when a person starts talking about something, my mind instantly trails off and starts analyzing the hell out of situation and this distracts me from the conversation altogether.

Why would Fi users be good at listening? ? What is the relationship?

[MENTION=5684]Elfboy[/MENTION]

Can you explain this to him? You explained it so much better than I the other day on the phone.

 

[Seymour]

I'm not really sure if I agree with the Ti part. I think that Ti users who have not yet developed Fe can be very impersonal, however once you develop strong Fe you tend to be much more emotionally attached to the conversation. Personally, I believe that the reason that I suck at listening is that when a person starts talking about something, my mind instantly trails off and starts analyzing the hell out of situation and this distracts me from the conversation altogether.

That's pretty much what Nardi found (esp for the INTPs). They take in some information and (especially if it might contain a logical or classification flaw) immediately detach externally so they can analyze internally. The INTPs usually listened for a few seconds before switching into analysis mode... which means they stopped taking things in at that point.

Fi doms tend to enter a full brain listening mode (and INFPs in particular, can sustain this mode for a long period of time, while ISFPs tend to listen deeply for a bit, and then move into action).

As far as brain regions, Fi-doms show high activity in T3 (precise speaker) and T4 (Intuitive Listener), F8 (Grounded Believer). INFPs show more activity in F7 (Imaginative Mimic) while ISFPs show more activity in T6 (Purposeful Futurists).

Subjectively, it feels to me like when I listen, I'm not just paying attention to surface content, I'm trying to build up a whole model of the other person's perspective, what's important to them, and what's behind their words. It sometimes feels like it's a kind of "mental simulator," that's trying to run a crude simulation of the other person's perspective and emotional state.

This also makes sense when one considers that each person's Fi values system is different. Unlike the other judging functions, there's no way to directly translate and evaluate objectively (via logic or shared social constructs). Hence, the only thing to do is to try to enter into the other person's perspective, and try to figure out how what they are saying makes sense to them. I found it puzzling as a kid since others wouldn't do the same for me... so it felt very much like a one-way street that way.

Nardi did observe that one's an Fi dom makes up their mind, they may no longer be willing to listen, so isn't like Fi-doms are the understanding saints all the time. One example he was an INFP having a discussion with an ESTJ on gun control. The INFP stated in a full brain, deeply listening state for a full ten minutes (Nardi was astounded). Then, the INFP made up her mind and that was that.

And, while it is possible to use alternate brain regions to do things (and, of course, a subset of people have different brain region arrangements, particularly some left-handers), generally the process is less efficient. Nardi had people do math problems. Although some people used other parts of the brain to do math (verbal centers, for example), they were much slower and less accurate than the people who used the typical brain region for the task.

And again... I like Nardi a lot, but I do take his findings with a few grains of salt. They haven't been peer reviewed or replicated, but he comes across as someone who believes he is honestly researching and reporting what he finds.

 

[Southern Kross]

I'm not really sure if I agree with the Ti part. I think that Ti users who have not yet developed Fe can be very impersonal, however once you develop strong Fe you tend to be much more emotionally attached to the conversation.

No, I didn't mean that they seem cold and aloof or anything. I just feel like a lot of the time there's a slight disconnect. It's not necessarily a bad thing either - to me it's more of a quirk.

Personally, I believe that the reason that I suck at listening is that when a person starts talking about something, my mind instantly trails off and starts analyzing the hell out of situation and this distracts me from the conversation altogether.

But this is what I mean; there's a distance. And I can understand that, because that's just how Ti works. Ti requires constant analysis because it has to keep up with the subjective logic - it needs to OK every step in the that person's thought process in order for it to be meaningful (ie. accurate) information to them.

Subjectively, it feels to me like when I listen, I'm not just paying attention to surface content, I'm trying to build up a whole model of the other person's perspective, what's important to them, and what's behind their words. It sometimes feels like it's a kind of "mental simulator," that's trying to run a crude simulation of the other person's perspective and emotional state.

This also makes sense when one consider that each person's Fi values system is different. Unlike the other functions, there's no way to directly translate and evaluate objectively (via logic or shared social constructs). Hence, the only thing to do is to try to enter into the other person's perspective, and try to figure out how what they are saying makes sense to them. I found it puzzling as a kid since others wouldn't do the same for me... so it felt very much like a one-way street that way.

 

[The Great One]

[MENTION=5871]Southern Kross[/MENTION]

It's true I do constantly have to detach and analyze. The problem is that my thinking is so automatic though. For instance, many times when someone tells me to think about something, then yes, I can do it, and I do, do it. However, my best thinking is done when I'm alone and it's very automatic. My mind will automatically and completely think through every crevice and every detail of a situation, object, problem, thing, etc, and suddenly I will come to sudden realizations that I would have never thought possible, and the solution to the problem hits me like a ton of bricks. I'm not sure if this is Ni or Ti.