• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Fi users and not apologizing

Azure Flame

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
2,317
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
8w7
You do come across as almost cp 6, interestingly enough.

Yes. I've had many people tell me I'm CP6, probably because I have the inner tranquility of a thousand great apes in choir. I associate this with the seven wing and the sp blindspot.

I'm also apparently "adorable" which is apparently not a permitted trait in 8's.
 

Siúil a Rúin

when the colors fade
Joined
Apr 23, 2007
Messages
14,037
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
496
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I am an INTP, so does that mean I never use Fi? E is not part of my four letter MBTI code, so does that mean that whatever holds true about extroverts does not hold true about me?

Whether or not someone apologizes or not depends on the context or the beliefs about etiquette they may hold.
Absolutely. Also, regarding an individual's beliefs and contexts about etiquette, some will adhere to it, others rebel, and others somewhat indifferent to whatever they think people are supposed to do in terms of apology.

In MBTI terms, would that imply that Fe would tend to adhere more than other functions to whatever the social conventions are about apologizing?
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Absolutely. Also, regarding an individual's beliefs and contexts about etiquette, some will adhere to it, others rebel, and others somewhat indifferent to whatever they think people are supposed to do in terms of apology.

In MBTI terms, would that imply that Fe would tend to adhere more than other functions to whatever the social conventions are about apologizing?

For all the issues I have with Fi, I don't think not apologizing is a Fi thing. I've had INFPs apologize to me. They just need to see some kind of "behavioral evidence" that helps them see my point of view. Explaining it with words does not seem to be enough, although it could just be because the words are so emotionally charged.
 

ChocolateMoose123

New member
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
5,278
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Would you happen to be an E6? I find a lot of E6's feel this way toward me.

I tend to make ridiculous and brash decisions which let people know I'm insane. It tends to work. I'm actually much more controlled than I appear to be.

My INTJ 6 brother legitimately thinks I'm the next hitler.

Yes I am an E6 but I'm also a person and my personal observations have little to do with my type or enneagram in this regard. Im more than the sum of those parts. What is the purpose of the above? To let people know you're insane when in reality you are more controlled? I get that you may be more in control than you let on. I don't understand why you let on otherwise. That's why I mentioned the possibility of defensiveness or overcompensation. Genuinely curious here.

To get back to the OP I don't find Fi/Fe to apologize less or more but I guess if the Fi user always thinks they are acting with their best intents and something goes wrong they may not feel a need to apologize because their intent was pure to them.
 

Azure Flame

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
2,317
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
8w7
Yes I am an E6 but I'm also a person and my personal observations have little to do with my type or enneagram in this regard. Im more than the sum of those parts. What is the purpose of the above? To let people know you're insane when in reality you are more controlled? I get that you may be more in control than you let on. I don't understand why you let on otherwise. That's why I mentioned the possibility of defensiveness or overcompensation. Genuinely curious here.

To get back to the OP I don't find Fi/Fe to apologize less or more but I guess if the Fi user always thinks they are acting with their best intents and something goes wrong they may not feel a need to apologize because their intent was pure to them.

Anytime someone reacts to who I naturally am, I take whatever trait they're reacting to and I amplify it as a form of vengeance. Usually E6's will overreact to something I say, so I'll just cross the line even further to stirr them up. With jealous E3's, I'll just do whatever it is that's making them jealous even more than I used to. I do this because I get angry when someone thinks I should alter who I am to make them comfortable.

Its a very abrasive and obnoxious technique. But the end result is that these people end up leaving me alone and no longer bothering me, which is really all that matters.

It doesn't work against enfp's though. I think they secretly love being mistreated, or they're always out to prove the opposite of whatever you tell them.
 

Azure Flame

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
2,317
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
8w7
Can you make a video in which you get angry, and post it here? Thanks.

I don't really have anything to get angry over anymore except how much the navy sucks. I might make a video about that.

I don't know if I was responsible, but my room mate's wife had a miscarriage 2 months after I warcried at her, and she told the cops I was going to murder her. :rock:

She deserved it. She treated me like a guest in my own home and would complain if she heard any tinkling of silverware and would tell me to "please quiet down."

I really don't yell at anyone very often. I think I tried a few times when I was like, 10, and realized that once you shout like that, you tend to not have any cards left over.
 

OrangeAppled

Sugar Hiccup
Joined
Mar 20, 2009
Messages
7,626
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Apparently you missed the "INFPs What Drives You Nuts About INFJs" thread extravaganza.

As a Fi-dom, I dislike a lack of humility, which is how I see a failure to apologize or express remorse.

I find this humorous when many people think F-dom apologize TOO much...for stuff they don't need to apologize for.

If I DON'T apologize for something, then it's because I may feel someone is trying to shame me into something I don't feel was wrong. That's when I may get stubborn. There are times when I realized my manner was inappropriate, even if my stance was not, and I may not have apologized in the past because I didn't see it. I'm better at seeing it now.

I don't assume people's internal states either. I think projection occurs with all types. For me, xxFJs project al kinds of crap onto me that has nothing to do with how I actually feel.
 

Fluffywolf

Nips away your dignity
Joined
Mar 31, 2009
Messages
9,581
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
9
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
When I do something that requires apologizing for (and sometimes it does happens), there's a very high chance that I did it out of spite in the first place, trying to passive-aggressively get the other party to think about the situation a bit more and have more consideration. I rarily apologize for these offences unless the other party shows they realize why I did what I did. In which case I'll readily apologize and mend the fences.

This is a behaviour that is less and less prominent in me however. I can't remember the last instance where this happened. But it was quite prominent in me in my early twenties. Lately I more readily accept that not everyone is able to live up to my fairly high standards and I have little interest in trying to educate them through passive-aggresive behaviour. Which I've long since realized is not particularly helpful at all in most cases.

It may occasionally happen when I get frustrated while being busy with something. But nowadays I am more open about it afterwards and talk things through out of my own accord when I'm no longer frustrated/busy.

Basicly though, I don't really ever to something worth apologizing for. At most, I may be apologizing for being misinterpretted in some cases. In which case I'd be very willing to discuss and clear out those misinterpretations at great length.
 

Halla74

Artisan Conquerer
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
6,898
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
But I'm an ESTP. I don't bottle anything up. When I get pissed off, it shows.

Ti -> Fe FAIL.
Sometimes the worst thing you can do to someone who has angered you is to not let them know they've angered you.
Unexpected feelings of insignificance quickly demoralize those who try to rattle your cage.

People think I'm guilt tripping them simply with my body language. My shoulders sink and I just kinda get lethargic and quiet when my feelings are hurt.

Interesting.
There have been times when my feelings have been hurt and I have chosen to remain silent in an effort to not respond in a manner that was disproportionate; discretion is the better part of valor.
However, that was at a time when I was not very well in tune with my feelings.
Now, if someone were to say/do something that hurt my feelings I would immediately tell them. Maybe they had no idea of their transgression, and if so, not telling them denies them the opportunity to make amends.
No one is a mind reader.

Cheers,

-Halla74
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I actually fail to see the problem here. She asked you to throw a bowl away and you claim you felt pain and resentment and stopped talking to her?

What I want to know is where YOUR sense of entitlement comes from.

I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm not sure anyone else sees this as absurd as I see it.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I've known this girl for 5 months then she pulls this crap out of NOWHERE. I wasn't expecting it.

She asked you to throw something away.

Is this like some kind of first world problem that upper middle class people whose parents never made them do chores has?

What. in. the. hell.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Here we go again with the NFP's telling me I'm a sociopathic narcissist again. lmao. I think you need to leave the house.

I am entitled to reject whomever I choose from my life. I'm not in a begging position to make friends, as I have quite a lot. So if she treats me like her servant, I cut her from my life and meet someone who won't. If that's narcissism then... sure I guess I'm a narcissist. haha.

I shouldn't have to include people in my life who upset me just to prove that I'm not a narcissist, lmao.

Honestly, last post I'm gonna make...but I think you may be a narcissist. I'm not sure how asking you something semi-rudely ONE TIME in an entire five month friendship warrants you feeling "pain" and not speaking to someone with the intention of never speaking to them again.

If anything, I actually think she should run from you. Run far. FAR.

I swear, even if her tone was the slightest bit nasty or something, doing something like this one time in a five month friendship does not warrant your theatrical, exaggerated, sense-of-entitlement response.

This entire thread is a joke to me.

Her: *munches salad* "Throw this bowl away for me, would ya?"

You: *stomps away, cries, vows to never speak to her again, and shrieks about deserved apology to Type C forum*

What you could have done: "Can't you throw it away yourself?" OR "You said that a little rudely." OR "Sure, let me get that for you, attractive woman who has been my friend for the past five months."
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
I don't really have anything to get angry over anymore except how much the navy sucks. I might make a video about that.

I don't know if I was responsible, but my room mate's wife had a miscarriage 2 months after I warcried at her, and she told the cops I was going to murder her. :rock:

She deserved it. She treated me like a guest in my own home and would complain if she heard any tinkling of silverware and would tell me to "please quiet down."

I really thought that was my last post, but no.

You're an abuser.

Your response is one of an abuser, too. Wildly exaggerated with entitlement. Like you said you could clench your teeth in her face aggressively and smash her phone, and now you say you screamed at this pregnant woman because she asked you to be quiet and she called the cops...

But you deserve an apology because she asked you to throw a salad bowl away.

This is the line of thinking a lot of people who commit domestic violence have. I think you definitely have some sort of personality disorder, and just know I don't mean that I think you'll be the next Hitler or that that's scary or cool in any way.
 

Nicodemus

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
9,756
I don't know if I was responsible, but my room mate's wife had a miscarriage 2 months after I warcried at her, and she told the cops I was going to murder her. :rock:

She deserved it. She treated me like a guest in my own home and would complain if she heard any tinkling of silverware and would tell me to "please quiet down."
Talk about the punishment matching the crime...

This is the line of thinking a lot of people who commit domestic violence have. I think you definitely have some sort of personality disorder, and just know I don't mean that I think you'll be the next Hitler or that that's scary or cool in any way.
Right back into old habits.

Love it!
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Talk about the punishment matching the crime...


Right back into old habits.

Love it!

Whatever, it's not old habits. If someone in this man's real life won't tell him that he's dangerous, some one on the Internet should. His pattern of behavior all points to domestic violence: smashing phones because someone messes with his music, screaming in people's faces because they ask him to please be quiet, having the cops called on him, overreacting to something very minor (he only says later that he cussed at her et al at the scene, and yet he still insists he deserves an apology).

I guess you think it's more amusing to enable him, but I don't.
 

Nicodemus

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2010
Messages
9,756
Whatever, it's not old habits. If someone in this man's real life won't tell him that he's dangerous, some one on the Internet should. His pattern of behavior all points to domestic violence: smashing phones because someone messes with his music, screaming in people's faces because they ask him to please be quiet, having the cops called on him, overreacting to something very minor (he only says later that he cussed at her et al at the scene, and yet he still insists he deserves an apology).
Tendentially, I agree with everything except the first sentence.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Tendentially, I agree with everything except the first sentence.

Then I take it to mean that you think "telling the truth" is some kind of dirty habit.
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
Staff member
Joined
Apr 18, 2010
Messages
27,230
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I think I only expect apologies as an ultimatum. Either you apologize or I stop talking to you and move on. And so I'd like to learn if its acceptable to take her sad face and ingratiating tone as enough of an apology. When people hurt me, I delete them from my life unless they apologize. That's just how I am.
There are many ways to apologize. What is important to you in an apology? Only you can decide whether what she has done is acceptable. There is no universal standard.

To be fair, expecting/demanding an apology is basically forcing another person to lower their ego for your sake. I understand that it's also an acknowledgement and reparation for hurt, and I too have expected/demanded apologies to continue relationships, but in a perfect world, we shouldn't need apologies from others.
Yes. The most I will insist on is that the other person understand as fully as possible the impact of their actions on me. Ideally, they will also give me an explanation for why they acted as they did. Expressions of remorse are OK as long as they are genuine, but are incidental to the more important content.

Check out my previous response. Its not so much that I, Fe user, need someone to apologize because "that's what people do when they mess up," so much as it is an objective and visible expression of remorse. This tells me that the person wants to make amends instead of maintain the position of being right. This is also by no means a one sided thing. I feel like I am one of the few people on this earth who apologizes for what he does wrong, and there is nothing in my ego that says I need to be right in the context of a relationship with another person.
The highlighted sounds like your personal standard for an apology. Does this lady's "sad face and ingratiating tone" indicate to you that she wants to make amends? Note that a desire to make amends can be present without an understanding of how one has given offense, but without that understanding reconciliation is more difficult.

That's interesting. Why do you think sympathy is usually empty? I think it's usually well-intended, even if it's not always completely understood.
What do you think sympathy usually contains? Intent is no substitute for substance. To me, it usually comes across as just empty pro-forma words that have no real consequence.

I am an INTP, so does that mean I never use Fi? E is not part of my four letter MBTI code, so does that mean that whatever holds true about extroverts does not hold true about me?
Theories differ on how to interpret this. Some say you use Fi, but poorly and with little conscious control. As an INTP, you would tend to use T(i) for internal judgment, and Fe rather than Fi for values. The highlighted is false and an overgeneralization. You will have certain things in common with some extraverts but not with others, just as with other introverts.
 
Top