• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

Cognitive functions and narcissism

Which cognitive function do you associate the most with narcissism?

  • Se

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • Si

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ne

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • Ni

    Votes: 1 7.1%
  • Te

    Votes: 1 7.1%
  • Ti

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • Fe

    Votes: 1 7.1%
  • Fi

    Votes: 2 14.3%

  • Total voters
    14

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
is it really plausible that the Fi-Te half of the population is immune to NPD?

I'm not sure where you're getting that from... Certainly not from anything I've said. No one is immune from malfunctioning Ti.
 
I

Infinite Bubble

Guest
First of all, I am going to rule out both Pe functions. Their use is merely to take in information from the outside world, and it is objectively orientated, away from the self. This most likely wouldn't cause narcissistic tendencies. Te is also to be ruled out due to it generally not being orientated towards people anyway, although I shall add that it may be used in an unhealthy manner to try to find measurable ways to prove (to themselves or others) that they are more superior. Ni is a contender. It is singular in orientation, towards the user, and often gives the impression that its assumptions are correct. So one I'd say is unhealthy Ni. It could also cause the user to have unrealistic dreams and goals.

There is a difference between narcissism and self-absorption or pure arrogance. Narcissism is an artificial cover to conceal the great negativity they have towards themselves. Narcissism is created out of deep insecurity and fragile self-esteem. It is about themselves in relation to everyone else. They live off other people in an extremely detrimental manner. Thus it makes sense that unhealthy use of Fe would lead to that. Manipulation, seeking constant attention, boastful, hypersensitivity to insults. Ti of course has the duality with Fe, and would fuel the latter function, but the naturally detached way in which it operates means that it probably wouldn't be the primary cause.

About Si and Fi, I am more unsure of. It could be possible that Si gives a similar effect to that of Ni. But Si, with the help of weaker Ne, often takes on a negativistic attitude and sees everything in a pessimistic manner (generalizing here), so perhaps the narcissism wouldn't arise. Fi as a value function could in an unhealthy manner inflate their personal values and beliefs as more important than others. But I think Fi more likely comes under the "self-absorbed" label, rather than narcissistic.

But overall I do not believe it has all that much to do with functions, if at all.
 
S

Society

Guest
I'm not sure where you're getting that from... Certainly not from anything I've said. No one is immune from malfunctioning Ti.
right, i forget you're a proponent of the 8 functions / shadow-function system... it's possible but i don't quite buy into that - i meant TJs & FPs who traditionally don't have Ti or Fe.

anyway - i was thinking more of [MENTION=3567]Blackmail![/MENTION] [MENTION=17588]Asterism[/MENTION] [MENTION=6689]Polaris[/MENTION] & myself.
 

Azure Flame

Permabanned
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Messages
2,317
MBTI Type
ESTP
Enneagram
8w7
Ne essentially thinks it's good at seeing that which isn't there.

Fi thinks it feels and knows what the other person is feeling.

Te doms are almost always the ones telling everyone what the best way is and even ignore Ti.

I don't think Si has very much to do with it. Based on experience I'll go ahead and say ESTJ's are the biggest narcissists, my personal experience being the military and constantly listening to "you should be more like me" bullshit. In descending order of narcissism (just my personal opinion):

ESTJ > ENFP > ENTP > ENFJ > ESTP > ENTJ > INTJ > ESFP > INFJ > everything else.

In otherwords: frequency of enneagram 3's.
 

digesthisickness

✿ڿڰۣஇღ♥ wut ♥ღஇڿڰۣ✿
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
3,248
MBTI Type
ENTP
Your link is more than 12 years old (2001).

Here is a more recent study (2008):

"Prevalence of lifetime NPD was 6.2%, with rates greater for men (7.7%) than for women (4.8%). NPD was significantly more prevalent among black men and women and Hispanic women, younger adults, and separated/divorced/widowed and never married adults. NPD was associated with mental disability among men but not women. High co-occurrence rates of substance use, mood, and anxiety disorders and other personality disorders were observed. With additional comorbidity controlled for, associations with bipolar I disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, and schizotypal and borderline personality disorders remained significant, but weakened, among men and women. Similar associations were observed between NPD and specific phobia, generalized anxiety disorder, and bipolar II disorder among women and between NPD and alcohol abuse, alcohol dependence, drug dependence, and histrionic and obsessive-compulsive personality disorders among men. Dysthymic disorder was significantly and negatively associated with NPD."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18557663

That makes 61% males, and 39% females.

And, race was mentioned too. To the point of saying "significant". Also, a stream of other disorders and drugs. Unless you take those into account, type them as well, and then pinpoint which comes first, type or narcissism, and finally do the math after all that, then the answer to this will never arrive. And, even then it would be doubtful as to its accuracy. Why? Because all of that still hasn't taken into account misdiagnosing and mistyping.

In other words, wut? MBTI does not come any where close to making life a simple as that. It barely makes anything simple when used for what it was meant for, much less something with as many variables as there are humans with brains consisting of hereditary-based problems, brain chemicals altered by drugs and/or diet, and individual life experiences, etc. as narcissism constitutes. Plus, again, misdiagnosing/typing.

And, using others on the forum as examples isn't going to help you at all. It will get you an answer, but not an answer to the question you're asking.
 

Asterism

New member
Joined
Jul 10, 2012
Messages
33
MBTI Type
IxxJ
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
right, i forget you're a proponent of the 8 functions / shadow-function system... it's possible but i don't quite buy into that - i meant TJs & FPs who traditionally don't have Ti or Fe.

anyway - i was thinking more of [MENTION=3567]Blackmail![/MENTION] [MENTION=17588]Asterism[/MENTION] [MENTION=6689]Polaris[/MENTION] & myself.

I'm actually of the mind that NPD is a culture-bound syndrome more than anything else. But, that's not what this thread is about. Or is it?

It's interesting to see how cognitive blind spots play into this particular debate, though. Or, one's relationship with the function in the 7th or 8th position (if you go by 8 function theory). As far as I've noticed, high Fe users don't get Fi and vice-versa and have a tendency to hurl selfish/self-absorbed/narcissistic indiscriminately when that happens. I've noticed INTPs (just a convenient example here) kneejerking a bit in their responses to Fi, and I think that's a combination of inferior Fe plus two subjective modes of processing (Ti/Fi) being largely incompatible and resulting in a Highlander effect.

I also wouldn't say any particular combination of functions results in immunity to NPD or narcissistic traits, although it's easier for me personally to perceive some combinations that way than others, because of my own position of bias. A full-blown narcissist may well be impossible to type, because the personality is so disordered that you'd have nothing to base your assessment on other than a collection of behaviors that change from moment to moment, because persons with this issue are so outer/other-directed and have no sense of self.
 
S

Society

Guest
Ne essentially thinks it's good at seeing that which isn't there.

Ne doesn't do much seeing in the first place - it doesn't passively observe as much as actively creates. it takes the input of existing patterns with old patterns and mixes them to create new ones. most of the times its just ideas, sometimes those ideas can become theories and those are used to understanding, but even then, NPs tend to use their Ji to understand what they see, not their Ne. it isn't much of a passive observer function.
 
S

Society

Guest
It's interesting to see how cognitive blind spots play into this particular debate, though.

that's what's weird here though: so far everyone who made the connection of Ti/Fe & narcissism is a primary Ti/Fe user, except perhaps infinity bubble (and you?). essentially: it should be our blind spot. so why isn't it?

high Fe users don't get Fi and vice-versa and have a tendency to hurl selfish/self-absorbed/narcissistic indiscriminately when that happens.

it goes both ways, and i think a big part of it is actually just here:
1. the current in/out metaphors of Fi & Fe allow for a large room of misinterpretation that seems to have nothing to do with people of either types.
2. Fe in RL is very attune to the facial expressions, tone & social cues from others. so it's manifestation on the internet is much more limited.

INTPs and INFPs argue a lot because they both reach conclusions that to the other side appear like arbitrary assertions.
 

unnamed

Permabanned
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
198
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
4w5
To be honest and fair,I voted Fi.
 

Julius_Van_Der_Beak

Up the Wolves
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
19,444
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I screwed up.

It turns out that the word I'm looking for is actually histronic, not narcisstic.
This sounds closer to the behavior I'm talking about:

*is uncomfortable in situations in which he or she is not the center of attention
*interaction with others is often characterized by inappropriate sexually seductive or provocative behavior
*displays rapidly shifting and shallow expression of emotions
*consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to self
*has a style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail
*shows self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion
*is suggestible, i.e., easily influenced by others or circumstances
*considers relationships to be more intimate than they actually are

That's HPD. Not accusing anyone in particular of being that, I'm just thinking of people who lean sort of close to that.

Meanwhile, this is NPD.

Takes advantage of others to reach own goals
Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
Envies others and believes others envy him
Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence
Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others
Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior
Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic

This is, unfortunately, overlaps a little more with me.

I'm in agreement with Salome, then.

I'll need to do this again. :(
 
S

Society

Guest
This is, unfortunately, overlaps a little more with me.

out of that (wiki?) list:

which applies to me:
- Takes advantage of others to reach own goals
- Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence
- Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior

which doesn't:
- Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
- Envies others and believes others envy him
- Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others
- Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic

on the grey scale:
- Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
i enjoy attention and when the right mood and environment strikes me will attract it and grab onto it, but i don't expect it - there have being environments such as workplaces & classes where i prefered doing my own thing and intentionally kept a low profile, but in jobs that demanded attention (like sales or class-project presentations), i was much much happier.
 

Ghost of the dead horse

filling some space
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
3,553
MBTI Type
ENTJ
I recognize that this thread idea has the opportunity to be offensive, but I find it to be nothing like that. I would have wished though that you had enabled to find the second most potential function for narcissism, too.

IN light of that, I'll examine ideas of the opportunity of each cognitive function's potential for narcissism.
Se. Ooh, look at my face! It's awsome. Look at the beer I'm drinking. It spells awesome. High potential for narcissism here.
Si. This civilization has continued on this basis for this long. I know all about this. Low potential for narcissism.
Ne. Look at that! An albino elephant with a caucasian male. I can do so many jokes on this. Medium potential for narcissism.
Ni. In light of evidence, I would see that this society is primarily motivated by reasons of survival. Very low potential for narcissism.
Te. For fuck's sakes, do this already you son of a bitch! I'll do it myself if you won't do it. Medium low to medium potential for narcissism.
Ti. I found out this thing so cleverly. Although, I'm not stopped by the fact that I'm clever. I can actually tell useful things about this. Medium potential for narcissism.
Fe. Omg! My superiority feeds on my ability to interact, which is already awesome, and which relies on me appearing awesome. Although, I should not appear narcistic in the wrong circles. Medium high chance of narcissism.
Fi. I'm pondering about the feelings this situation gives me about the whole. I might feel it's wholesome, or then, not. I'm deciding this and I'll use it for my own good. I might appear condescending if I take this too far. Medium to low chance of narcissism.
 
S

Society

Guest
I recognize that this thread idea has the opportunity to be offensive, but I find it to be nothing like that. I would have wished though that you had enabled to find the second most potential function for narcissism, too.

if this wasn't in the hidden little alleyway of "MBTI (tm) and other personality matrices", were mostly the over-analytical go to play, i would put my money that this would have turned into another big time Fi vs. Fe war.
 
Top