Do Blacks copy ESTP black culture? Do white people sometimes even copy it too?

[Faceless Beauty]

Because it seems very much like they all want to be gangsters, and your archetypal gangster is a black ESTP (or ISTP I guess).

Okay I'm going for a walk now, so I won't see the responces yet.

What is ESTP Black culture, and how is it different from Black (insert MBTI type here) culture?

 

[Kierva]

Because it seems very much like they all want to be gangsters, and your archetypal gangster is a black ESTP (or ISTP I guess).

 

[Infinite Bubble]

The answer is 42.

 

[Entropic]

Your approach to this subject is haphazard. It could have been a neat topic to read through and discuss, the culture of expectation placed on blacks.


Most of my friends are black, and it's always puzzled me how people say they "act white", or make comments like, "you're the whitest black person I've known". What does that even mean? It goes both ways even, some black acquaintances would rag on my good black friend for not "acting black".


So yeah.... I wish this thread would have been posited in a more constructive manner, but alas, here we are.

In social anthropology we often explain this with the concept of power relations and social discourses. A discourse is simply a collection of ideas about how something should be like that is collectively seen as a dominant point of view. For example many European countries are atheist and reject the notion of religion. There is no rational or logical reason why this is; it is simply so because we as a social collective decide it is so and we uphold these notions because we see it as desireable by valuing atheism over religion and teaching our children that religious views are undesirable.

When looking at ethnic groups, it tends to be in the shape of racial hierarchies with the discourses controlling where you fall in the hierarchy and how you need to be/act in order to be like "your race". There are cultural stereotypes that prevail how one should be like and there is power to be gained as well as submission in relation to how individuals decide to follow or go against the dominant discourse. So we for example have this stereotype that black men are all gangsters. What this means in a power sense is that we degrade all black men into a stereotype. This is how the power relation between white and black people is maintained. So your friends probably make comments like "I act white", they do so because they are inherently aware of these discourses that frame their being due to their skin color and ethnic origin and they submit to the idea that they are in fact subordinate "white culture" where people do not act like gangsters.

In post-colonial studies, a major part of the post-colonial mindset is how power relations are created between black and white people by defining black people as "savages" because black people are not seem to be the hegemonic group. It is exactly this kind of logic that is carried over here, where a projected view that black people are lazy, unable to control themselves both physically and sexually and so on onto modern-day blacks. The prevailing mindset is that a black person will thus never socially be as valued as a white person because our subconscious is so ingrained with the idea of this power relation that blacks should inherently not be trusted. They are dangerous because they are not civilized as white people are, they are savages. So if a black person says, "I did such a white thing today", they basically sadly submit to the idea that they are savages, that their way of being is of less value and it is not in their inherent nature to be "white". This was simply an exception of the rule, they were pretending.

So now that I've painted this very negative image of how the Western society as a whole tends to view race, I also want to stress that there is power to be gained and that power relations can be reversed. When a black person thus says, "I'm such a gangsta nigga", they are doing just that. They are creating value in in the stereotype, making it seen as something desireable to be and thus the power relations become reverse. I think this is very well exemplified in the black hip-hop scene and how white artists ironically tend to struggle simply because they are white. They lack that certain something blacks have which makes their music more authentic compared to the white man's.

Of course, as a whole, the hip-hop scene is still subordinate white culture and I'm uncertain about the values to be found within extreme black culture to be something we should eventually see as something desireable in children, especially when it comes to mascuilnity ideals. Anyway, I think that's a discussion I leave for another time as that is equally complicated. But at least I think you get an idea why your friends might say those things that they say and why.

/end of anthropology vomit

 

[miss fortune]

this seems like an appropriate place to tell a joke!

what's 10 inches long, white and hangs up?

.......


seriously though... if you listened to enough gangsta rap you would note that there isn't even any agreement as to what a stereotypical gangsta should behave like

not to mention that assuming that all black people want to behave like gangstas is downright STUPID do you live in Idaho or something?

 

[Il Morto Che Parla]

One of those times when I saw the thread title and knew it was posted by [MENTION=15371]RaptorWizard[/MENTION] .

a culture is formed by a group of people who live and work together. MBTI is about individual orientations within a culture. Therefore there is no "ESTP culture" or any other "type culture".

#Philosophical

 

[Il Morto Che Parla]

this seems like an appropriate place to tell a joke!

what's 10 inches long, white and hangs up?

Still waiting for the punchline!

 

[miss fortune]

Still waiting for the punchline!

to complete the joke:

what's 10 inches long, white and hangs up? a telephone


what's 10 inches long, white and hangs down? nothing

thought that in lieu of this racist thread I'd try and even things out by making a joke about white people!

 

[Il Morto Che Parla]

what's 10 inches long, white and hangs down? nothing

thought that in lieu of this racist thread I'd try and even things out by making a joke about white people!

harsh!

 

[miss fortune]

harsh!

... and yet still more sensitive than the op!

 

[Il Morto Che Parla]

... and yet still more sensitive than the op!

I didn't think the OP was insensitive, just silly from an MBTI POV.

You UASians have are very sensitive about any race related observations. Prob because of your history.

 

[Jaguar]

what's 10 inches long, white and hangs up?

Does he know you talk about his Johnson in public? I'm gonna tell him.

 

[Il Morto Che Parla]

Does he know you talk about his Johnson in public? I'm gonna tell him.

"He" will be grateful for the marketing I imagine! She should charge commission.

 

[miss fortune]

I didn't think the OP was insensitive, just silly from an MBTI POV.

You UASians have are very sensitive about any race related observations. Prob because of your history.

I'm mostly just sensitive towards stupidity and overgeneralizations... why can't people be less idiotic?

Does he know you talk about his Johnson in public? I'm gonna tell him.

well, we know that it can't be 10 inches, so obviously I'm not!

"He" will be grateful for the marketing I imagine! She should charge commission.

the bill's in the mail

 

[violet_crown]

 

[EJCC]

This forum is off the rails.

YES IT IS. (Especially this week!)

It's so crazy that I feel like it's been driving me crazy too!!!

do you live in Idaho or something?

Aw don't hate on Idaho! They're just naive. (I mean, there are only maybe 2 black people in the entire state!)

One of those times when I saw the thread title and knew it was posted by RaptorWizard.

Yep. It's that particular brand of crazy!

(No offense, RW.)

You UASians have are very sensitive about any race related observations. Prob because of your history.

Definitely. Plus, statistically speaking, it's obvious that there still isn't racial equality in America, even after all that work in the sixties -- and there's a ton of controversy as to why that is. Has been for decades. Stereotypes about minorities (discounting Asians) being "lazy", or not working hard enough to pull themselves up and take their share of the American Dream, has not helped at all.

I'm mostly just sensitive towards stupidity and overgeneralizations... why can't people be less idiotic?

I know what you mean.

 

[Glycerine]

I can never tell when RaptorWizard is being serious or trolling....

 

[skylights]

 

[violet_crown]

I can never tell when RaptorWizard is being serious or trolling....

I like to think of RW as someone who's more of an ideal than an individual. He's like Santa or the Batman. If he wasn't real, the necessity of him is such that we would invent him.

 

[WALMART]

In social anthropology we often explain this with the concept of power relations and social discourses. A discourse is simply a collection of ideas about how something should be like that is collectively seen as a dominant point of view. For example many European countries are atheist and reject the notion of religion. There is no rational or logical reason why this is; it is simply so because we as a social collective decide it is so and we uphold these notions because we see it as desireable by valuing atheism over religion and teaching our children that religious views are undesirable.

When looking at ethnic groups, it tends to be in the shape of racial hierarchies with the discourses controlling where you fall in the hierarchy and how you need to be/act in order to be like "your race". There are cultural stereotypes that prevail how one should be like and there is power to be gained as well as submission in relation to how individuals decide to follow or go against the dominant discourse. So we for example have this stereotype that black men are all gangsters. What this means in a power sense is that we degrade all black men into a stereotype. This is how the power relation between white and black people is maintained. So your friends probably make comments like "I act white", they do so because they are inherently aware of these discourses that frame their being due to their skin color and ethnic origin and they submit to the idea that they are in fact subordinate "white culture" where people do not act like gangsters.

In post-colonial studies, a major part of the post-colonial mindset is how power relations are created between black and white people by defining black people as "savages" because black people are not seem to be the hegemonic group. It is exactly this kind of logic that is carried over here, where a projected view that black people are lazy, unable to control themselves both physically and sexually and so on onto modern-day blacks. The prevailing mindset is that a black person will thus never socially be as valued as a white person because our subconscious is so ingrained with the idea of this power relation that blacks should inherently not be trusted. They are dangerous because they are not civilized as white people are, they are savages. So if a black person says, "I did such a white thing today", they basically sadly submit to the idea that they are savages, that their way of being is of less value and it is not in their inherent nature to be "white". This was simply an exception of the rule, they were pretending.

So now that I've painted this very negative image of how the Western society as a whole tends to view race, I also want to stress that there is power to be gained and that power relations can be reversed. When a black person thus says, "I'm such a gangsta nigga", they are doing just that. They are creating value in in the stereotype, making it seen as something desireable to be and thus the power relations become reverse. I think this is very well exemplified in the black hip-hop scene and how white artists ironically tend to struggle simply because they are white. They lack that certain something blacks have which makes their music more authentic compared to the white man's.

Of course, as a whole, the hip-hop scene is still subordinate white culture and I'm uncertain about the values to be found within extreme black culture to be something we should eventually see as something desireable in children, especially when it comes to mascuilnity ideals. Anyway, I think that's a discussion I leave for another time as that is equally complicated. But at least I think you get an idea why your friends might say those things that they say and why.

/end of anthropology vomit

Very interesting read, thank you for that.


And lol at the bolded. My friends would slap a black man for saying that