The American Delusion Of Personal Interpretation

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

Science regards personal interpretation as merely anecdotal and of no scientific validity.

Nice strawman. I didn't say it has scientific validity. I said it's a stage within the scientific method. And it is. If people couldn't form their own interpretations, own old interpretations would never be challenged and we'd be unable to make any progress in our knowledge. Surely you're not arguing on behalf of stagnation, are you?

 

[Mole]

Nice strawman. I didn't say it has scientific validity. I said it's a stage within the scientific method. And it is. If people couldn't form their own interpretations, own old interpretations would never be challenged and we'd be unable to make any progress in our knowledge. Surely you're not arguing on behalf of stagnation, are you?

For 200,000 years we had personal interpretation and we believed the Sun went round the Earth.

Personal interpretation led us into stagnation for 200,000 years, but in the 17th and 18th centuries the Enlightenment led us out of personal interpretation into evidence and reason.

But still, the protestant reformation of 1517 is still with us and so is personal testimony.

And personal testimony is an authority that can't be challenged by evidence and reason.

 

[Lark]

Looks lets just get this straight, American and Canadian women are more attractive than Australian women.

I introduce as exhibit A a comparison between Victor's and Fidelia's avatars.

 

[Mole]

Looks lets just get this straight, American and Canadian women are more attractive than Australian women.

I introduce as exhibit A a comparison between Victor's and Fidelia's avatars.

Perhaps a more interesting personal interpretation would ask, who is the more attractive, Fidelia or Victor?

 

[Lark]

Perhaps a more interesting personal interpretation would ask, who is the more attractive, Fidelia or Victor?

Dude, seriously, such a comparison is a grevious sin and error.

 

[Mole]

Dude, seriously, such a comparison is a grevious sin and error.

I am prepared, willing and able, for the face-off between Fidelia and Victor. Let the people decide who is the more attractive.

 

[Lark]

I am prepared, willing and able, for the face-off between Fidelia and Victor. Let the people decide who is the more attractive.

The people?!

Make me laugh so hard I'll do myself an injury will you? I'm on to you Victor, well played, well played indeed.

 

[Winds of Thor]

For 200,000 years we had personal interpretation and we believed the Sun went round the Earth.

Personal interpretation led us into stagnation for 200,000 years, but in the 17th and 18th centuries the Enlightenment led us out of personal interpretation into evidence and reason.

But still, the protestant reformation of 1517 is still with us and so is personal testimony.

And personal testimony is an authority that can't be challenged by evidence and reason.

Why? Why not?

 

[wildcat]

For 200,000 years we had personal interpretation and we believed the Sun went round the Earth.

Personal interpretation led us into stagnation for 200,000 years, but in the 17th and 18th centuries the Enlightenment led us out of personal interpretation into evidence and reason.

But still, the protestant reformation of 1517 is still with us and so is personal testimony.

And personal testimony is an authority that can't be challenged by evidence and reason.

Sun does go round the earth. But you are right, personal interpretation is not the only one.

 

[Fidelia]

Have I actually seen any pictures of Victor before? I don't recall it if I have...

 

[Mole]

The Busker and the Flâneur

Have I actually seen any pictures of Victor before? I don't recall it if I have...

What difference would it make, Fidelia?

I mean if I am more attractive than thou, why belabour the point with pictures?

Let the people decide. Let us take it to the streets.

Do the people want a busker, being as Canadian as possible under the circumstances, or do they want Fair Go Victor, an elegant flâneur, a boulevardier, sauntering along, the dream of the boulevard?

I mean, make up your own mind. Sure, it will be a blow to your self esteem but you could content yourself to playing my soundtrack as I saunter along the boulevard, an elegant and attractive flâneur. You could bask, positively bask, in my glow.

 

[Fidelia]

No, I was just mildly curious if you actually looked like my internal vision of Wizard of Oz crossed with Willy Wonka. Somehow I think you should dress unusually, but I can't quite envision what it would be.

Whatever it is, I know that my avatar has me beat for looks by a long shot.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

For 200,000 years we had personal interpretation and we believed the Sun went round the Earth.

Personal interpretation led us into stagnation for 200,000 years, but in the 17th and 18th centuries the Enlightenment led us out of personal interpretation into evidence and reason.

But still, the protestant reformation of 1517 is still with us and so is personal testimony.

And personal testimony is an authority that can't be challenged by evidence and reason.

Right. And I'm telling you that personal interpretation is where science starts, and the means by which Copernicus was able to challenge the assumption about the structure of the solar system. You still haven't addressed that.

 

[Bamboo]

Some things can be interpreted and then analyzed through empirical means to find if they meet up with reality.

Other things are subjective. What is beautiful. Or what meaning one chooses to derive from the bible, or any other document or experience. However, there are certainly practical limitations. If there is a sign that says "no parking" you can interpret it in a lot of ways, but assuming it means what it says, it probably really does mean "no parking". But you might interpret that to mean "no parking unless i'm special, or it's an emergency, or this is actually your parking space" and you might be correct. Or you might be a jerk parking in someone else's parking space.


(of course, there is the whole "are we actually hooked up to machines and this is a projection" issue, but even then it seems like we are able to make measurements that are stable enough to be useful in our realities that they are acceptable as true for some uses, such as physics.)

 

[Mole]

Personal Interpretaton and Personal Convenience

Right. And I'm telling you that personal interpretation is where science starts, and the means by which Copernicus was able to challenge the assumption about the structure of the solar system. You still haven't addressed that.

Well, you are right in that science starts with an hypothesis, then collects data, then applies reason to the data to see if it falsifies the hypothesis.

However personal interpretation alone of say, the Bible or personality type, is not based on evidence (data) and reason, and so can't be falsified.

And so personal interpretation alone is personally convenient.

 

[Mole]

No, I was just mildly curious if you actually looked like my internal vision of Wizard of Oz crossed with Willy Wonka. Somehow I think you should dress unusually, but I can't quite envision what it would be.

Whatever it is, I know that my avatar has me beat for looks by a long shot.

You have been busking, you are a busker, so I was wondering, have you done improvisation?

[MENTION=7111]fidelia[/MENTION]

 

[Fidelia]

I have, though generally not while busking, unless I am playing with other people. However, my busking days are over, other than as a novelty. It was something I mostly did during university years, or while I was travelling. What's up with the recent busking interest?

 

[Lark]

No, I was just mildly curious if you actually looked like my internal vision of Wizard of Oz crossed with Willy Wonka. Somehow I think you should dress unusually, but I can't quite envision what it would be.

Whatever it is, I know that my avatar has me beat for looks by a long shot.

Lies.

The last bit

 

[Mole]

Improvisation on Central

I have, though generally not while busking, unless I am playing with other people. However, my busking days are over, other than as a novelty. It was something I mostly did during university years, or while I was travelling. What's up with the recent busking interest?

My interest is in sharing improvisation on Central.

Improvisation is spontaneous and positive. It can be a theatrical exercise, or a spiritual exercise, or for enjoyment. And I think it may lend itself to Central.

Perhaps a talking point may be at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUO-pWJ0riQ

 

[Little_Sticks]

Mbti purports to measure personality, but mbti doesn't give a reliable and valid measure of personality, rather mbti is an American cult, and part of the New Age spirituality.

It gives a tool that people can use. And some people are much better at using it, even if others choose to ignore/debase their methods. That said, reliability is never absolute and some have been able to use MBTI with reliability. Sure, maybe it's not the MBTI that everyone accepts, but it's the same types nonetheless. It also doesn't help if you are judging it by how it is used here because it is an intuitive theory, not a rational/scientific one, and what's reliable is then an epistemological dillemma.

Anyway, you seem to imply that the world must be scientific/rational for it to make sense. It doesn't have to be and trying to rationalize the irrational (which inductively then couldn't be rationalized) doesn't refute its existence and validity. You take the stance that the irrational doesn't exist when purporting that MBTI is a cult, but...it's a contradiction to want reliability for something that can also be unreliable in nature; some people might be reliably measured, while others not so. Furthermore, it opens the door to statistical correlations which are not absolute in nature and thus inherently unreliable. But you could measure the unreliable and form an understanding of it without expecting that understanding to be absolute and reliable. If something becomes unreliable, you can always remeasure without discarding your tools - I don't need reliability or science to be able to use my eyes and I don't need science to try and tell me how I should use them.