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WALMART

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To provide actual input, perhaps sensor types don't put trust in their own thoughts about things, and are more apt to seek out professional opinions on various matters.
 

Such Irony

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It probably depends on the person. I know an ESTJ who despises self-help books. She sees it as all speculation that can't be proven. She also thinks the author is just writing the stuff to get your money.
 

Venom

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Personally... I would never even consider reading a self-help/motivational books. Unless of course I'd have a hidden agenda, but that is very unlikely.

I consistently noticed S types liking them... A lot. "Books about life" is what they call them. N types, however, don't seem to like them much, in my surroundings (online and offline) at least.

SJs or SPs, they like them. STs or SFs, they like them. Why? Is this "phenomena" widespread, or is it just my surroundings?

Would/have you read such a book? Why?

I would agree, but only to a point. I can't say I'm a "fan" of ANY self help book... However I've skimmed books like "four hour work week", "zen and the art of making a living", certain career oriented books, buddhist practicalities. Basically self help books that focus on happiness are pointless, agreed. Knowing a lot of facts about happiness doesn't actually make anyone happier. However career oriented self help books usually do have practical knowledge and tips. Ive had a lot of career angst growing up and I tend to read nonfiction so go figure
 

cafe

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If I'm not sure about how to do something, I read up on it. Relationships and life skills are no different. I've read stuff about marriage, sex, parenting, dog training, putting on make-up, how to dress, co-dependence, autism, religion, personal finance, soap-making, etc. If I'm lucky, there are a few good things in a book or article, but that makes it worth it to me. I prefer not to have to make all my own mistakes myself. I'm not too proud to take short-cuts when I can get them.
 

Cellmold

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Im not sure but...do books on Jung and MBTI count?

Jung perhaps not as he desired for people to truely know about themselves. But MBTI books...im not so sure about.

I do know ive never read any self-help book of the kind usually straining the 'health' section of a WHSmith shop. Those with titles such as "How to master people and yourself" and "How your dog can drive your car".

If any book has a title similar to my first example I cannot see how it could be anything less than a few thousand pages long. People cannot be mastered by a certain technique of practice, each individual is a step into someone else's mental realm and the complexities therein, even within the most 'simple' of people, are not something to breeze over lightly.

Of course there are fairly objective techniques that can work on people, collective delusions, dissonances and biases, but even so there are always those who throw a nice bit of grit in such systems.
 

PeaceBaby

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Personally... I would never even consider reading a self-help/motivational books. Unless of course I'd have a hidden agenda, but that is very unlikely.

I consistently noticed S types liking them... A lot. "Books about life" is what they call them. N types, however, don't seem to like them much, in my surroundings (online and offline) at least.

SJs or SPs, they like them. STs or SFs, they like them. Why? Is this "phenomena" widespread, or is it just my surroundings?

Would/have you read such a book? Why?


This anecdotally doesn't seem to be the case in my environment.
 

cafe

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Skimming through, I did that to see what those books are about... And to be able to make fun when I want to. :D That falls under the "secret agenda" category.
[MENTION=4]cafe[/MENTION] reading up on how to do something (how to tie my shoes, how to weld a PC case) is not self-help or motivational books. ;)
Whatever you need to tell yourself to make yourself feel superior. I'd rather admit my ignorance and take steps to stop being ignorant, but to each his/her own.
 

Randomnity

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I enjoy them but I don't think they're very useful, they just trick you into thinking that they are. For the most part, anyway. I think they can be enjoyable because they make you feel like you're solving your problems when really you're just hiding from them. Once in a while you'll get a tiny tip that sticks with you, but usually it's just a diversion that doesn't actually change anything in your life.

They seem to be especially popular with the xNFPs I know IRL, if that is relevant. Sample size means that it probably means nothing.

edit: to be clear, I still read them (or far more commonly, the equivalent online articles), even if I do cringe a little at myself the whole time. :laugh:
 

Lark

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Personally... I would never even consider reading a self-help/motivational books. Unless of course I'd have a hidden agenda, but that is very unlikely.

I consistently noticed S types liking them... A lot. "Books about life" is what they call them. N types, however, don't seem to like them much, in my surroundings (online and offline) at least.

SJs or SPs, they like them. STs or SFs, they like them. Why? Is this "phenomena" widespread, or is it just my surroundings?

Would/have you read such a book? Why?

I've read a lot of them, they're of pretty varying quality or usefulness.
 

cafe

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Can you explain to me how I am wrong?

Self-help books are just how-to books for your finances, psyche, or relationships. Those are some of the most important factors in one's quality of life. Writing off a whole segment of potentially useful information because some sources are crackpots is illogical.
 

Il Morto Che Parla

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It's like anything. A good self-help book is very useful, and many have been proven to be so by experiments and results. These are books which use psychological and scientific facts, and proven methods, to inform people fully on how to gain a wide range of specific results according to their own personality and desires. i.e. realize their own potential rather than a "one size fits all" approach.

Really MBTI itself is a self-help tool...so why would someone here dismiss the whole genre but accept MBTI? Seems...ironic.
 

skylights

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I think of self-help books as the NF department, not S.

I generally like them, you just have to sort through the fluff to find the useful ones. I'd say they're more useful as an inspiring touchstone and casual resource than the panacea they sometimes present themselves as.

Basically self help books that focus on happiness are pointless, agreed. Knowing a lot of facts about happiness doesn't actually make anyone happier.

I disagree with this. I think that there's a lot of good literature on paths to happiness. Facts about happiness are generally presented with the point of you figuring out the correlations... If I know, for example, that any increases in my salary past 70K will have no statistically significant impact on my quality of life, then I can apply that in a number of ways.
 

Venom

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I think of self-help books as the NF department, not S.

I generally like them, you just have to sort through the fluff to find the useful ones. I'd say they're more useful as an inspiring touchstone and casual resource than the panacea they sometimes present themselves as.



I disagree with this. I think that there's a lot of good literature on paths to happiness. Facts about happiness are generally presented with the point of you figuring out the correlations... If I know, for example, that any increases in my salary past 70K will have no statistically significant impact on my quality of life, then I can apply that in a number of ways.

Im not going to let this go :p ... Think about those self help books though where it's the psychologist/sociologist who track "happy people".. The happy people almost always are the type of people who DONT ever even think "am I happy?". The researchers are probably no more happy than they were before they started their "quest" for happiness, and that's because happiness is probably a state of being rather than a place to arrive to. Merely asking yourself is probably enough to push you farther from it.

Secondly, not enough books tell the truth about giving up. The easiest way to overcome being a lone wolf with no friends? To get past not having a cool enough house? Give up and stop caring.
 
G

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Stephen Covey himself has been typed as a hardcore ENTJ, and he's been one of the most influential writers for personal/professional development.
I've read a lot of them, they're of pretty varying quality or usefulness.
Same.
 

Lark

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I began reading these sorts of books in my late teens when I read How to Win Friends and Influence People, I wanted to read it because I was lead to believe it was a classic book and when I did I liked the style of writing and thought it imparted knowledge which deserved to be common sense or common place and it wasnt.

Then when I was at university for the first time I read books from this genre with a sort of deconstructionist view, I wanted to discover things about what these books were and who the target market where. I would not have said that at that time I had a positive view of them and then I read a few which made a negative impression, in particular Norman Vincent's books.

Today I am largely neutral because while I think people who are talking negatively about these books are usually talking about Norman Vincent's kind of writing I take the view that the books are much, much wider in scope than they are generally given credit for. If you read the instructions on hardware its essentially "self-help", although its not motivational, it could be but that's not the intention I guess. I also think that all the books for the business savy, the vicious, the machavellian, the PUA books etc. are all "self-help" and "motivational".

There was a storyline in a Batman comic once about a cult leader who horribly disfigured his followers with a molten hot metal mask which removed their faces and he was motivated by a madness stoked by self-help or "can do" books.
 

highlander

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I began reading these sorts of books in my late teens when I read How to Win Friends and Influence People, I wanted to read it because I was lead to believe it was a classic book and when I did I liked the style of writing and thought it imparted knowledge which deserved to be common sense or common place and it wasnt.

That was the first one I read. I have always enjoyed the psychology and self help section at the book store though I seldom go there anymore. I tried reading a couple "motivation" books before and couldnt make it very far. Otherwise, my approach to anything I want to get good at is to read about it. In the past, this has included things like learning about how to be a good leader and manager, reading technical books and manuals to be technically proficient at work, how to understand people better (mbti). I even read books about sex when I started having that. I got a masters degree and did my thesis on things that were very dirctly related to work. So, when I am new to something or want to get good at it, I study and research it. It is what I have always done.
 

cascadeco

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Yeah... I'm inclined to be disinclined to trend this by temperament. :smile:

I think it's more of an individual thing, and every type could be compelled to go for these books and find value in them.

And, of course, part of that is due to my own little bubble of perception/anecdotes - I have an NFJ friend who eats these books up and reads them a lot; contrast that with me, I haven't read any of it and prefer to sit in my apartment and muse through all of it on my own (maybe it's the masochist / 'I will figure this out on my own' thing :laugh:). It's arguable which would yield better results; I'm perfectly fine with how I've gone through life minus the books, but I'd need to send a clone back in time to go about life reading all of the books, and see whether that clone or me as I am now is in a better position. I wouldn't be surprised if we'd be in the same position (I think there would be a tradeoff..things gained via either mode) - I think the books could conceivably misdirect just as often as they assist. :shrug: Suffice it to say... it's individual.
 

FDG

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Self-help books are just how-to books for your finances, psyche, or relationships. Those are some of the most important factors in one's quality of life. Writing off a whole segment of potentially useful information because some sources are crackpots is illogical.

It's just that oftentimes, what they try to "teach" you is common sense with a little bit of motivational kool-aid.

Personally, I like studying and researching, but I'd rather devoted my time to something more groundbreaking, or at the very least...not so obvious.
 

cafe

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It's just that oftentimes, what they try to "teach" you is common sense with a little bit of motivational kool-aid.

Personally, I like studying and researching, but I'd rather devoted my time to something more groundbreaking, or at the very least...not so obvious.
Well, that's all well and good for people that have common sense. I'm notoriously lacking in that department. As a matter of fact, if it ever looks like I have common sense, I generally read it in a book or screwed it up enough times to finally figure it out.

Not saying I go out and buy books all the time and then do whatever they say, but I pick up helpful tidbits here and there when I come across them or look for help when I've got something that needs troubleshooting.

Honestly, I really hate to see where my marriage would be right now if I hadn't read Mars and Venus. I got, like, one or two useful things from the whole book, but what I got helped a lot. It wasn't even rocket science, but I was honestly stumped. Every bit of self-help bologna I've read before or since was worth it for that one little bit of information: You have to tell men what you want because they aren't just going to figure it out from observation or hints. I was raised by women and had no idea. Stupid looking back on it, but there you go. We don't all have common sense.
 
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