Undiplomatic INFJ?

[Ribonuke]

Okay, so...I have this character who is definitely an INFx. I'm thinking she's an INFJ, but...well, I don't think she has a past that affords her the level of diplomacy and social awareness that I've heard people tell me that is key to an INFJ (i.e. she doesn't know how to properly execute Fe). At the same time...I dunno, she doesn't quite seem like an INFP to me either.

So...are there any universal traits to an INFJ or INFP that I can use to help pin her down?

 

[Rosabel]

Couldn't she be an INFJ in a Ni-Ti loop?

 

[Ribonuke]

Couldn't she be an INFJ in a Ni-Ti loop?

Come to think of it...yes, yes that is very possible. That, or her Fe is VERY immature in comparison to how it should be, so she uses her Se instead? (I kinda went through a phase like that as a kid...where I realized I wasn't able to communicate very well socially and so I started acting out physically due to my frustration, until I was heavily reprimanded for it in school and I stopped.)

I basically started out life in a Ni-Ti loop, I think, and didn't get a head start on my Fe.

 

[cascadeco]

I suppose an INFJ could be undiplomatic if they became bitter and rather than learning to stand up for themselves and set their own boundaries, thus avoiding becoming a doormat or some such thing, they instead blame everyone else for their own position and start hating on everyone.

 

[EJCC]

I suppose an INFJ could be undiplomatic if they became bitter and rather than learning to stand up for themselves and set their own boundaries, thus avoiding becoming a doormat or some such thing, they instead blame everyone else for their own position and start hating on everyone.

I've seen something similar in an INFJ counterphobic 6 who hangs out with some of my friends. She gets along well with my cynical INTJ 1w9 former roommate because both of them are extremely cynical and jaded and both of them tend to characterize themselves as "hating everyone". I don't know what happened in her life to make her so cynical about everything but considering how extremely loyal she is (6 alert!), it wouldn't surprise me if someone had taken advantage of her trusting nature and stabbed her in the back.

 

[cafe]

The other thing that can happen is that one can make a values decision to be 'honest' and it can go horribly wrong. Sometimes you have to bumble around a little bit before you can find a functional happy medium when you are driven to follow your values to the extent INFJs can sometimes be.

For me, I eventually came to the conclusion that a truth told cruelly was not better than telling a lie. I made it my goal to 'speak the truth in love' rather than saying whatever I wanted and justifying it by what I said being true.

Or, and I struggled with this as a teen/young adult, too, you don't always realize how what you're saying is going to sound to someone else. Because INFJs look at things from a sort of backassward perspective, you can sometime think you are just stating the obvious, but to others it's not and sometimes it can make you look like a dick. The obvious thing still trips me up sometimes, but after getting in trouble with my mom and grandma enough, I started to think about how I would feel if someone said some of the stuff I was saying to me and realized I would have been hurt/offended/angered by it and it helped to improve my filters a bit.

Some of this stuff just has to be learned.

 

[INTP]

not everyone can use their aux function. universal traits doesent exist(even tho some people think they do and attempt to type based on those traits, which can lead to mistyping), because typology isnt about traits, its about different types of cognition(cognitive functions and their hierarchy in the psyche).

what comes to not using Fe, cuz its immature. undeveloped functions are about you not being consciously aware of them, not being able to consciously direct/use them, contents of the functions mixing up with the other contents of the unconscious which leads to different sorts of cognitive dissonances(you hate and love someone at the same time would be an example of this happening with undeveloped F) or just simply not recognizing the value of the function, thus ignoring what it 'says'.

even if some of the four functions were not developed, that doesent mean that they are not there, you do judge value of things, give definitions to things, perceive what is and possibilities, whether you do those things consciously or not. the thing is that if you dont do those things consciously, its not you who is being in control, but you are being controlled by the functions which gets mixed up with your unconscious emotional complexes around things.

i agree with cafe that INFJs might come off as rude/impolite/dick without realizing it, even if they would just like to help(i think they share that with ITPs). i dont think this not realizing how one comes off to others is about Fe, Fe is about making judgments of value, based on objective criteria, which can be social niceties, but definitely is not limited to that, but it can just as well be something else. for example one INFJ(female) has almost made my INFP(male) friend cry few times for calling him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_obstructive_pulmonary_disease and his name(lol that disease has long/hard name in english) and criticizing him from some related stuff, and she just wanted to help.. and she isnt someone who lacks social awareness in general, unlike the INFP(who btw would never say such things to someone and would cry himself if he made someone else cry or hurt someones feelings).

if you want some indication how to differentiate INFP from INFJ, INFPs try to have some structure inside their heads(which can be shaken, but also balanced by Fi) and their external world has next to no structure, except when Te comes to play at times. INFJs on the other hand try to have structure in their external world, while going all over the place inside, except when Ti manages to make some sense of it all.

 

[Ribonuke]

I guess this all makes sense, but now this makes me wonder...

Is it possible for an INFJ to completely cross over to their animal side, bypassing their Aux Fe and crossing over into an almost animalistic, violent use of Extraverted Sensing? Like...realizing they can't properly deal with other people and so becoming withdrawn from society as a whole and participating in violent underground subculture?

 

[cafe]

I would imagine anything is possible. I have a hard time imagining going to that extreme. Believing that I *can't* do something at a basic level of proficiency that moderately mentally handicapped people can learn isn't terribly plausible to me.

I mean, I know I'm kinda weird and quirky and I have gotten to the point where my free time almost never involves social interaction outside my immediate family but wouldn't a violent underground subculture involve dealing with people?

And then if you accidentally say the wrong thing somebody might slice open your throat with a broken beer bottle instead of saying something passive aggressive about you on facebook.

I'm going to go with possible, but unlikely under most circumstances on this one, I think. Mental illness beyond the typical depression/anxiety a lot of people suffer from could throw things off as could growing up in or around violent underground subculture or maybe running away from home because of abusive parents and falling into the subculture as a survival mechanism. You'd think with this kind of imagination I'd be able to write fiction . . .

 

[cascadeco]

I'm going to go with possible, but unlikely under most circumstances on this one, I think. Mental illness beyond the typical depression/anxiety a lot of people suffer from could throw things off as could growing up in or around violent underground subculture or maybe running away from home because of abusive parents and falling into the subculture as a survival mechanism. You'd think with this kind of imagination I'd be able to write fiction . . .

Yeah... this is more along the lines of what I was thinking.

[MENTION=15358]Ribonuke[/MENTION], how important, really, is it for you to stick to INFJ-ness and cog functions? I mean, I'm of the opinion that with a lot of things - behaviors, notably, and tied to that decisions made / people one surrounds oneself with - it extends into general psychology, upbringing, experience-set, abuse, defense mechanisms, and the like. How one was raised, the safety and trust, or lack of, one was surrounded with growing up, etc. Broadening beyond cog functions can account for a lot of aspects of a person.

So in theory you can have people of all types in an underground sub-culture, it's just once they're in that culture, for whatever reason, they'll then 'process' that in ways based on their own personality/ hit a niche within that subculture based on their cog functions.

(It's like... you have people of all types who are in abusive relationships for one reason or another, and those who are not, and so on)