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FPs: Do You Feel Fi Is Sourced Within Your Chest?

FPs: Do You Feel Introverted Feeling Is Sourced Within Your Chest?


  • Total voters
    21

SD45T-2

Senior Jr.
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Feb 18, 2012
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4,229
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so/sp
You sound just like my husband. lol
Thanks. I think. :unsure:

inappropriate-joe-meme-generator-i-feel-your-pain-let-me-release-your-chakra-991667.jpg
:rofl1:
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
Ok, so I said I was going to post my thinking, so here it is:

Studying the enneagram over the last several months, one of the major issues for 6s is that we supposedly lose connection with our source, with our own inner authority. Furthermore, in Claudio Naranjo's book 'Character and Neurosis', he says that the Jungian type most resembling the enneagram 6 is the ENTJ (frankly, I think Naranjo seems to have a poor understanding of MBTI/Jung, and that his MBTI-Enneagram correlations are poor, but I thought this one was actually pretty decent). So, these two observations got me thinking: it seems like part of the enneagram 6s problem, at least when it comes to TJs, would be a loss of connection with their source, their own inner authority, their Fi.

In large part, I came to this hypothesis while in a yoga class on a Saturday morning, when, about an hour into the class, I had a profound realization, and I sort of just let go of trying to make my practice "objectively perfect", to "conform to some external standard of correctness" (both very Te), and just said "fuck it" and started listening to my own internal guide (very Fi) (this is a lesson my instructor continuously preaches to his class).

Anyway, it's a subtle shift, and one I could probably speak to in more detail, but one of the main qualities that changed was that I got out of my head, and into my gut/chest (kind of in both the solar plexus region [the yellow chakra], as well as higher up in my chest [the green chakra]). This sensation was similar to what is described in the enneagram books, as a way for enneagram 6s to get out of their heads and into their bodies, and I carried it with me pretty steadily for the next couple weeks (while walking around, it also felt like the orange [gut] chakra was part of it all as well).

It all reminded me of a feeling I'd had back in my last year of college, around the time I came out of what very much resembled what Jung describes here, and which was probably one of the best years of my life. I've described it in pretty good detail here before, and I've often associated this "going under" and "coming back up" with the development of my Fi and Se (i.e., in typological terms: the shadow). I don't know what happened exactly, but I think over the next several years I kind of lost contact, at least to the degree I'd had during that year, with that inner authority, and the feeling I was now experiencing was the strongest connection with that source I remembered feeling since that last year of college.

Anyway, this is why I'd been thinking about starting this thread for several months.
 

Betty Blue

Let me count the ways
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Fi is at my core but it's not stationary, it flows.
 

uumlau

Happy Dancer
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From what I've seen/discussed on here and in real life is that Fe/Ti users seem to be able to say exactly why they're feeling what they feel (not that Ti dom/aux wants to talk about it!). It has a name, and a label, and the moment the circumstances change the cause, the feeling changes to something else. I'm generalizing, of course, but it's the tendency I've seen. Fe/Ti types should feel free to correct/clarify my observations.

With Fi, on the other hand, feeling doesn't have the labels/names. I find it interesting with all of the NFPs have colors and places for their feelings. Oro has asked me the same, and I said I didn't have any colors or places. I just feel, kind of all over, though certain emotions such as anxiety tend to center around my heart. These colors and places aren't really "names" though; it seems to be some kind of manifestation of tert/inf Si, mapping feelings onto Si-ish mental impressions. It appears to be much more difficult for Fi to determine the "real reason" for a feeling. Once Fi types determine that "real reason", they have a very precise idea of what the feeling is, and will recognize it immediately should it resurface, but they'd still be hard-pressed to say anything definitively concrete about it in the way Fe/Ti seems to be able to.

In my INTJ case, I just feel the feeling. It takes a long while, however, to identify what I'm feeling, and it's remarkably difficult to determine why I'm feeling it. Usually I have to let it "settle", and once it does, it makes sense. But on the fly, they tend to be confusing, so I postpone dealing with them. Having an ENFP girlfriend, I have to be more aware of these: she can pick up on my moods, where other people just assume I'm being cold/distant/spaced-out. I've had to learn to say, "Yeah, I'm kind of upset, but I'm not sure about what. I'll let you know when I figure it out, OK?"

Like the cat in my sig, I can't take the feeling apart and see what it is. I have to let it crawl around in my mind for a while and watch it. Once I've watched it for long enough, I know it, more or less.

[EDIT - I do have a tendency to associate feeling with music, but not particular songs or themes. The music writes itself.]
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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From what I've seen/discussed on here and in real life is that Fe/Ti users seem to be able to say exactly why they're feeling what they feel (not that Ti dom/aux wants to talk about it!). It has a name, and a label, and the moment the circumstances change the cause, the feeling changes to something else. I'm generalizing, of course, but it's the tendency I've seen. Fe/Ti types should feel free to correct/clarify my observations.

In my INTJ case, I just feel the feeling. It takes a long while, however, to identify what I'm feeling, and it's remarkably difficult to determine why I'm feeling it. Usually I have to let it "settle", and once it does, it makes sense. But on the fly, they tend to be confusing, so I postpone dealing with them. Having an ENFP girlfriend, I have to be more aware of these: she can pick up on my moods, where other people just assume I'm being cold/distant/spaced-out. I've had to learn to say, "Yeah, I'm kind of upset, but I'm not sure about what. I'll let you know when I figure it out, OK?"

[EDIT - I do have a tendency to associate feeling with music, but not particular songs or themes. The music writes itself.]
All of the above makes sense. Most of the Fe users I know are INTP, and they certainly do avoid talking about their feelings. If anything, I am more willing to do so, but find it difficult. For me, the middle falls out. I feel the feeling, and can point to what caused it (e.g. something bad that happened at work), but can't understand or even name the feeling itself, especially if it involves several emotions all intertwined. This is why I usually bypass that step entirely and focus on the causal events. Those are external, I can see them, describe them, and ultimately do something about them. Your observation about music is on target, too.
 

Rasofy

royal member
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From what I've seen/discussed on here and in real life is that Fe/Ti users seem to be able to say exactly why they're feeling what they feel (not that Ti dom/aux wants to talk about it!). It has a name, and a label, and the moment the circumstances change the cause, the feeling changes to something else. I'm generalizing, of course, but it's the tendency I've seen. Fe/Ti types should feel free to correct/clarify my observations.
That makes a lot of sense, ime. I tend to find the why part pretty intelligible. Hardest part is actually getting aware of the feeling, as I find it hard to acknowledge a feeling before I'm able to make a cause/consequence connection that justifies and supports it. The feeling has usually been lingering unnoticed for a while before I register it.
 

Poki

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From what I've seen/discussed on here and in real life is that Fe/Ti users seem to be able to say exactly why they're feeling what they feel (not that Ti dom/aux wants to talk about it!). It has a name, and a label, and the moment the circumstances change the cause, the feeling changes to something else. I'm generalizing, of course, but it's the tendency I've seen. Fe/Ti types should feel free to correct/clarify my observations.

With Fi, on the other hand, feeling doesn't have the labels/names. I find it interesting with all of the NFPs have colors and places for their feelings. Oro has asked me the same, and I said I didn't have any colors or places. I just feel, kind of all over, though certain emotions such as anxiety tend to center around my heart. These colors and places aren't really "names" though; it seems to be some kind of manifestation of tert/inf Si, mapping feelings onto Si-ish mental impressions. It appears to be much more difficult for Fi to determine the "real reason" for a feeling. Once Fi types determine that "real reason", they have a very precise idea of what the feeling is, and will recognize it immediately should it resurface, but they'd still be hard-pressed to say anything definitively concrete about it in the way Fe/Ti seems to be able to.

In my INTJ case, I just feel the feeling. It takes a long while, however, to identify what I'm feeling, and it's remarkably difficult to determine why I'm feeling it. Usually I have to let it "settle", and once it does, it makes sense. But on the fly, they tend to be confusing, so I postpone dealing with them. Having an ENFP girlfriend, I have to be more aware of these: she can pick up on my moods, where other people just assume I'm being cold/distant/spaced-out. I've had to learn to say, "Yeah, I'm kind of upset, but I'm not sure about what. I'll let you know when I figure it out, OK?"

Like the cat in my sig, I can't take the feeling apart and see what it is. I have to let it crawl around in my mind for a while and watch it. Once I've watched it for long enough, I know it, more or less.

[EDIT - I do have a tendency to associate feeling with music, but not particular songs or themes. The music writes itself.]

Sometimes I know why I feel something sometimes I dont. I dont feel very often though so its interesting when it happens. I get the impression that this is very different then the people that surround me. For example my son feels songs and then will judge his feeling either positively or negatively. I dont feel songs. They make me think, not feel. And sometimes they end up tied to people they make me think of. Music like clasical I dont feel either, but I love the how the sounds flow together, especially pianos.

When I do feel it is usually easy for me to pinpoint. The problem is sometimes when I get really beat down I dont know why. Its kinda like a form of depression, but its usually temporary(an hour to a couple hours before I get out of it). I dont normally get depressed for very long. I avoid that feeling and just redirect myself and it goes away. I dont really deal with it or understand it. Sometimes I can even pin it to an exact event/situation, but dont know what to do to fix it...change how I feel other then just becoming absorbed in something else. I know I bottle up feelings, but I am not the type of person who will focus on a feeling and all the things associated with and just stew in it. I just experience it and then things can add to it until the bottle overflows. My thoughts I can stew in though. But I dont try to find a deep meaning to my feelings, they just are and they are simple...doesnt mean they are deep, but I dont try to find some deep underlying meaning like others may try to do.

Ne/Si likes to create maps, I dont. I like to just understand and know. The map creates itself overtime by understanding and experience.

edit: One example is when I was going through some extremely rough times I laid in bed with a song on repeat and my mind was just processing and running through things. Just everything that was happening to me at the time. My feelings were firing off, but I was lost in thought. I also had issues with hyper-tension (my low would get really close to my high, the sensation of this hypertension happened at the dentist once when my ex walked into the office and I was told I was at stage 2 hyper-tension). When I felt it coming on I would just lay there and focus on it mentally, try a few things like getting up and walking around, and then just lay back in bed. When I focused it didnt seem to get worse. I could even focus my mind on the things that caused the situation I was in and it didnt get worse. This was an extremely hard time for me and was considering letting everything go(not suicidal, just all of lifes responsibilities). I never did because as I ran it through my mind I didnt feel like dealing with cleaning up everything it would have screwed up. I had no desire to let everything go and never build it back up again, I just wanted out of where I was. When I become emotional I tend to just walk off on my own and deal with it, usually just experience it. Its almost like I am a seperate entity then my feelings.

As a non Fi person I feel in my chest mostly.
 

cascadeco

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From what I've seen/discussed on here and in real life is that Fe/Ti users seem to be able to say exactly why they're feeling what they feel (not that Ti dom/aux wants to talk about it!). It has a name, and a label, and the moment the circumstances change the cause, the feeling changes to something else. I'm generalizing, of course, but it's the tendency I've seen. Fe/Ti types should feel free to correct/clarify my observations.

Once I know what I'm feeling, yes, I am able to articulate it and work through it; talk about it with someone if it also affects them/ is tied to our relationship.

But there can definitely be long lag times before I get to the point where I really know what's going on. I tend to think it's tightly wound with Ni, whenever this occurs... that I'm simultaneously waiting for the 'ping' of Ni to know what direction to take or what's wrong. For example, from April-July I was in a highly transitory state of confusion/uncertainty, knowing I was unhappy on some level but not sure why or what else was tied to all of that, or what exactly I wanted/needed to do. It wasn't until the end of July that I finally realized what was going on and acknowledged some things and reached internal clarity and direction.

I might be able to name an element of what I'm feeling - 'i.e. confusion' - but like you I'll also tell the person that I'm trying to figure things out and I can't talk about anything atm, because I simply don't know what exactly is going on atm and haven't solidified yet.
 

PeaceBaby

reborn
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If I simplistically think of Fi as the right / wrong axis, it's a little easier to answer this.

The ping of wrong is felt in the solar plexus area for me, slightly higher perhaps. Sometimes a twinge, sometimes feeling as heavy as a blow.

The ping of right just feels neutral to good, sometimes a glow, but mostly just maintains status quo. No bells. No warnings. All clear.

Examples of what would trigger that feeling would be if I say something uncharitable from a value perspective (spreading gossip about someone, ping of wrong) or witnessing something that is contrary to my values, esp if I am in a position to take action to counter it (people taking advantage of others, gong of wrong) or even while trying to write or build something (ping of ick tells me I might be going in the wrong direction).

Somethin' like that. A compass, a geiger counter, a metal detector. On all the time.
 

Lady_X

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i know the ping...except mine is more of mini kaboom with boiling lava n stuff
 

Anarkandi

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There are two flavour Fi's and if you'd locate them in a certain body region one flavour of Fi is in the gut instincts and one is in the chest area, related to shame and the 4 in the enneagram. The gut area would often be related to the 8 or 9 in the enneagram. The flavourings come with if the Fi-dom has developed to withdraw their feelings to avoid criticism, or if they have learnt to put it forward in a challenger way, basically, to avoid others hurting them, the Fi would push it's Fi from the gut upwards down towards the other person, and basically shut it's ears to the criticism that would arise and then re-withdraw into 4. The 4 is the natural state for Fi and the 8 is more the Te in the Fi. The 4-9 combination is different, that one barely even uses Te and mostly withdraws it's opinions, until it boils over or they learn to present it in a diplomatic manner. The Fi is generally more chest-centered alas, but there's definitely gut reactions too.
 

Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
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I think Fi is in your ears...as it hears injustices that it personally wants to condemn.
 

stalemate

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I feel like it is more in my throat.

(TWSS)
 

the state i am in

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the chakra map is what i now use. i think noticing chakra energies is the most useful self-awareness tool that i've discovered so far. more than the enneagram, which is useful for making predictions and getting the meaning organized so that you can see larger patterns, but doesn't really open you up to fully being present with yourself.

http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/energyhealing4.php

c4 is equanimity and compassion. in yoga class when they say, "open up your heart center," and when your postures do that, you are more in an embracing perspective. for Fe, i feel like i can more fully mirror someone, like a ferris wheel of ups and downs that binds us together, that we mutually share, that i can kind of enter into the performance of and be with the whole performance. you identify with the gestures of the body in interaction, and you feel like a kind of consubstantiality to the relation as you feel identified to them so strongly. c4 is hard to integrate, and it seems to me like e4s know the c4 experience generally better than other types, especially those that have moved away from a deep-seated need for originality to one instead focused on equanimity. who feel originality as more of a fact, and equanimity as more of a goal that comes out of that fact (rather than confusing themselves with the meaning, and the contest to have the best meaning, the best image of originality, to be the object that is declared the most unique).

e9s, for instance, are really defined by c2. 7s kick in more c3, although 7w6s and so types sometimes tend to be less solid in this regard. e4s generally show stronger c2 than e5s. all the chakras have an emotional element or experience, but i think Fi relates across c2-c5 at least somewhat clearly. as does Fe. c3 does seem more about forcefulness, self-efficacy, self-responsibility. it's more of an engine/drive. more instinctual. more anger, fast response, yes/no, spring into action, focus, etc. the instinct triad seems to really relate to c2 and c3.
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
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the chakra map is what i now use. i think noticing chakra energies is the most useful self-awareness tool that i've discovered so far. more than the enneagram, which is useful for making predictions and getting the meaning organized so that you can see larger patterns, but doesn't really open you up to fully being present with yourself.

http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/energyhealing4.php

c4 is equanimity and compassion. in yoga class when they say, "open up your heart center," and when your postures do that, you are more in an embracing perspective. for Fe, i feel like i can more fully mirror someone, like a ferris wheel of ups and downs that binds us together, that we mutually share, that i can kind of enter into the performance of and be with the whole performance. you identify with the gestures of the body in interaction, and you feel like a kind of consubstantiality to the relation as you feel identified to them so strongly. c4 is hard to integrate, and it seems to me like e4s know the c4 experience generally better than other types, especially those that have moved away from a deep-seated need for originality to one instead focused on equanimity. who feel originality as more of a fact, and equanimity as more of a goal that comes out of that fact (rather than confusing themselves with the meaning, and the contest to have the best meaning, the best image of originality, to be the object that is declared the most unique).

e9s, for instance, are really defined by c2. 7s kick in more c3, although 7w6s and so types sometimes tend to be less solid in this regard. e4s generally show stronger c2 than e5s. all the chakras have an emotional element or experience, but i think Fi relates across c2-c5 at least somewhat clearly. as does Fe. c3 does seem more about forcefulness, self-efficacy, self-responsibility. it's more of an engine/drive. more instinctual. more anger, fast response, yes/no, spring into action, focus, etc. the instinct triad seems to really relate to c2 and c3.

Thank you for this excellent post.

It seems you've already put a good deal of thought into this.

I've practiced hatha yoga for a good while now (7-8 yrs), and have just recently gotten into studying the deeper dimensions of yoga.

A lot of what you said makes sense (my ESFP 7w8 ex often used to talk of her "belly fire" [c3]), but one question:

Do you then think that the T functions are somehow associated with the higher chakras?

I am willing to say that, if I had to, I would definitely associate Ni with c6/c7.

And I'd probably be willing to say I'd associate Te with c5/c6.

:thinking:
 
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