INFJ and ISTJ -- Why do we irk each other?

[Tiltyred]

I'm trying to figure out a way to get a handle on the high degree of IRK I feel when forced to be around the ISTJ person in my life for long periods of time. (Work thing) It may not be explainable in MBTI terms; maybe it has to do with something else entirely, but I figure this is a place to start. Are there standard reasons why would we want to kill each other from time to time?

 

[Fidelia]

Using very different functions?

ISTJ not communicating most of their thoughts verbally, so there is little to go on?

ISTJ tendancy towards details?

I have an ISTJ dad whom I am not at all irked by, but whom I do not understand well. With him, I'm not sure either though if it's an individual thing or a type thing. He just tends not to discuss anything that requires a decision. He either tries to guess what my mum or I want or else quietly digs in his heels and does what he wants. Either way, he skips straight past the information gathering to the decision-making, usually without articulating what decision has been made.

 

[zelo1954]

Some ISTJs will have an inner certainty that they are always right. They may not have understood that there are other angles involved. I can see an INFJ - or indeed many an INxx - in fairyland being intensely frustrated.

 

[Ene]

I am with an ISTJ's everyday, one male, one female.

The male ISTJ in my life likes assurance that physical issues can be resolved. He likes to know that the bills are going to be paid on time, that the yard will mowed every Thursday and that the food on his plate will always be arranged in the same fashion. He wants to know well in advance what he's eating for super and becomes disturbed if plans get changed. He can be a stick in the mud when it comes to a snap decision that absolutely has to be made and often panics in a crisis, BUT he is dependable and honest. The only way he knows to show friends and family he cares is by doing practical things, like washing the dishes or taking out the trash. He likes to have conversations about theoretical subjects and feels both cornered and threatened when forced to talk about his deep desires or feelings, because his main desire is to be respected and for someone to spend time doing "little" things with him, like playing pool or watching a movie. The female ISTJ in my life...well dog it all, guess what? She's exactly the same way...oh, except she's also BOSSY! However, if I just ignore her bossiness and thank her for reminding me that I am a minute late or that such and such a piece of paper is due, she feels good about herself and thinks I am a wonderful person. Haha...it really does work. She used to dog me all of the time and nit-pick me to death over the fact that she thought I was unorderly because I kept things in my head instead of color coded binders, but I bought a purse off her and started telling her how much I appreciated her organization and that I veiwed it as a great talent. Now, we are friends and I have discovered that she is often a very lonely person, because MOST people don't want to be around her due to her excessive OCD tendencies. Both of these people are good, decent souls and they can't help the way they perceive and understand the world. I just keep it in my head that they operate from a different frame of reference. Trust me. It wasn't easy, but when I started looking for the lovely things in them and for the motives behind their obsessiveness I grew to love them both.

OH, and YES! They both have to be right. So I let them. No harm done.

 

[21%]

My best friend is an ISTJ -- and I used to get so annoyed why she would do things a certain way. Then I learned about the MBTI and I read up on how ISTJs operate and that shed light on so many issues. I now really appreciate our differences and I love her just the way she is.

Things that used to annoy me:
- Distrust of people who were 'out of the norm' or 'weird'
- Being so safe and sensible, not letting herself go and have fun with new experiences
- Slightly pessimistic attitude about the world and people

Things I love about her:
- She is always responsible, dependable and loyal
- She is stable and constant and is always there for me
- Because she is so practical, she can help me see problems from a practical real-world point of view (not blown way out of proportions by emotions)
- Her secret gooey Fi that is totally irrational, which is kinda cute

Anyway, she's a great friend and I'm lucky to have her

 

[Reverie]

There are a few resident ISTJs at the INFJ forum and they are a hoot. Real sweethearts. Always coming up with great funny deadpan remarks.

 

[Tiltyred]

Definitely the always being right. The issues about food are quite something. I think my ISTJ is borderline Aspie. I had a long discussion with a doctor friend of mine about what I observed, and the doctor (gp) believes this. It would explain a lot. What's funny is, she says I act like a schoolmarm and thinks of herself as the big iconoclast -- but to me, she's just being inappropriate (that does sound kind of schoolmarm-ish) and after a few days' contact, I start to feel so agitated inside that I get exhausted from it and really short of patience. The other night at a team dinner, she insisted on standing up most of the time. I realized sometime late in the day that it was because she was jealous of a younger woman sitting across from us who was stealing the attention from the alpha male at the head of the table. I don't know why she thought that standing over her would help anything -- it didn't -- she just looked really peculiar. So I was like, "Sit down, would you please sit down? Why are you standing up?" and she pretty much says because she feels like it and continues to stand there glowering over the younger woman and sometimes crossing her arms over her chest -- AT DINNER, with 20 of us sitting there eating and talking. Does ISTJ get extremely threatened if anything looks like it might take their place? I mean, I guess we all do, but to my mind, it would be better to pretend to be more laid back -- I'm of the "never let them see you sweat" clan.

 

[Society]

Some ISTJs will have an inner certainty that they are always right. They may not have understood that there are other angles involved. I can see an INFJ - or indeed many an INxx - in fairyland being intensely frustrated.

from what i've gathered, that's a common thing for IxxJs in general - whether your information is processed by dominant Ni or dominant Si, patterns within patterns or associations within associations, the nature of the information provided by it tends to create a very focused and singular vision from that information, it can be framed positively as cohesive and transcending, it can be framed negatively as tunnel vision (though only truly justifiable when the Ti/Te is still too under developed to maintain healthy self-doubt or when the self esteem is to unhealthy to withstand it), but the results are similar in this aspect, while being completely different in their source, or in "why that is the vision".

the result of an unhealthy ISTJ and an unhealthy INFJ, is two people who are always right in their own minds, can't agree on it within the external leveled playing field, and can't communicate to each other why. how worst can it possibly get?

 

[Tiltyred]

Heh. You may have hit the nail on the head. I gotta cop to being set in my ways. Next time I'll take half a xanax and shrug it off.
(I realized when I read your post that my attitude was "Of course I'm set in my ways. My ways are right!" ooops)

 

[zelo1954]

Just remember though that ISxJs are the salt of the earth. They are the glue that holds society together. They may have their faults (though I never seem to see any in the ISFJ female ) but we'd all fall apart without them.

 

[Ene]

Does ISTJ get extremely threatened if anything looks like it might take their place?

I have witnessed this, too, and often.

 

[RaptorWizard]

Just remember though that ISxJs are the salt of the earth. They are the glue that holds society together. They may have their faults (though I never seem to see any in the ISFJ female ) but we'd all fall apart without them.

I would have thought that its the ESxJs that are the real pillars of society and that the ISxJs just work for them quietly behind the scenes.

 

[spirilis]

I would have thought that its the ESxJs that are the real pillars of society and that the ISxJs just work for them quietly behind the scenes.

The ESxJs might explode if the stuff they are directing folks to do didn't get done.

 

[zelo1954]

I would have thought that its the ESxJs that are the real pillars of society and that the ISxJs just work for them quietly behind the scenes.

I'm thinking more at the family level. Sure the ESxJ types gravitate towards pillar jobs that make them look good and enable them to tell someone else what to do but real grassroots society is glued by the ISxJ (always imo of course).

 

[sulfit]

I'm trying to figure out a way to get a handle on the high degree of IRK I feel when forced to be around the ISTJ person in my life for long periods of time. (Work thing) It may not be explainable in MBTI terms; maybe it has to do with something else entirely, but I figure this is a place to start. Are there standard reasons why would we want to kill each other from time to time?

INFJs and ISTJs are in relations of super-ego going by socionics intertype relations chart. These types don't share any functions and belong to opposite quadra and same temperament, so they are bound to grind against each other.

 

[Tiltyred]

It's really miserable.

 

[Eric B]

All eight functions in reverse order, or "Enigma" according to TypeLogic's version of intertype dynamics

http://www.typelogic.com/pairs.html:
"Enigma - a puzzle: totally foreign in nearly every facet"

One's dominant or "hero" is the other's Demon, and one's Auxiliary or Good Parent is the other's Trickster. And so on.

Though they do seem similar on the surface in having the same Interaction Style (Chart the course) or sociability temperament (IJ)

 

[tommyc]

don't think its mbti-related. My step dad's ISTJ and we get on really well.

 

[Eric B]

There's no guarantee that types will get along or clash based on functions, but if there is a clash like this, you can look at the functions and archetypes as clues. It might be something like maturity level that determines these things. People more set on ego's way of seeing things will clash more with others with different preferences, and those who've expanded consciousness will clash less.

 

[Wolfie]

They are the glue that holds society together.

Well society SUCKS!

Can we blame that on ISxJs?