Mystical Thinking and Type

[Siúil a Rúin]

This topic came up in another thread, and it is something I am curious about.

What do you consider to be mystical thinking?

Do you have thoughts and beliefs that reflect this concept of mysticism?

Which function(s) do you think contribute to your mystical thinking and describe how do you approach it?

 

[Qlip]

I'm as about as mystical as they come. To me mysticism is an attempt to tie everything I know into a whole, it's a bid at the great big picture. And on the flip side, it's an understanding that the minutiae, being a part of the whole also somehow contains it. Mysticism is an attempt at understanding of gaining knowledge of the only thing that really matters. Which is ?.

So, yes, I have thoughts and beliefs that reflect it.

It really engages all of my functions. I feel in a way Perception is paramount, my Ne taking in everything and not throwing anything away.

 

[RaptorWizard]

The "mystical" types I would imagine are the NFs along with some really crazy INTJs, INFJ being the most mystical of all.

 

[Stanton Moore]

The "mystical" types I would imagine are the NFs along with some really crazy INTJs, INFJ being the most mystical of all.

Based on what? Personal experience? A blog somewhere? What? Does 'mystical' mean 'delusional'?

 

[RaptorWizard]

Based on what? Personal experience? A blog somewhere? What? Does 'mystical' mean 'delusional'?

Mystical means:
1.
mystic; occult.

2.
of or pertaining to mystics or mysticism: mystical writings.

3.
spiritually symbolic.

4.
Rare . obscure in meaning; mysterious.

I think of mystical as meaning arcane, magical, and mysterious as well as possibly being superstitious.

 

[Stanton Moore]

Mystical means:
1.
mystic; occult.

2.
of or pertaining to mystics or mysticism: mystical writings.

3.
spiritually symbolic.

4.
Rare . obscure in meaning; mysterious.

I think of mystical as meaning arcane, magical, and mysterious as well as possibly being superstitious.

It seems pretty obvious that the definition of a term should not include that term or a derivative thereof, but I understand what you intended.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I should probably let this thread develop more before posting, but oh well. Maybe because I've been considered an INFJ for so long and I know it is the type tagged with this style of thinking, and it is a burden to me when I encounter it.

What do you consider to be mystical thinking?
Technically it is relating ideas based on unexplained sense of cause-and-effect. The danger of it is that our minds can filter our perceptions based on expectation, and we see what we expect to observe, and so experience can give us a sense of consistent, yet unexplained cause-and-effect. Astrology is a pristine example of it.

Do you have thoughts and beliefs that reflect this concept of mysticism?
I am surrounded by astrologists, many of whom are intelligent and respectable. It disturbs and troubles me to an emotional level. Perhaps this is because I feel hood-winked by experience and don't care to repeat it and so have adopted a more rationalist process for forming actual beliefs - assumption of facts. I was religious, or rather spiritual within the context of religion, for years. I did have experiences in nature sitting quietly in which I felt connected to everything around me. Many conclusions I drew from this sense of reality coincides with Buddhist philosophy. I wouldn't call these beliefs, but various levels of speculation. I am fascinated with speculation, but find it is necessary to separate this style of thinking from "fact". Meaningful approaches to investigation do not always require a process for determining facts, but it is important not to draw factual conclusions from various levels of speculation. Reasoned speculation can form hypothesis which are then subjected to scientific reason.

Which function(s) do you think contribute to your mystical thinking and describe how do you approach it? Since I honestly don't know if I'm INFJ or INFP (although in the past people always tell me I'm INFJ), it could be Ni-Fe or Fi-Ne, but I have a few bizarre, intuitive reactions to my perceptions. For one example, when I'm tired and unfocused, I can unintentionally view an entire range of emotional expressions when observing a stranger. If I'm sitting in a restaurant and watch the people walk by, I'll get vivid images of what they look like when crying, when (and if) angry, happy, etc. I don't know if this is because the lines of the face and movement of the body imply this wider range of expression or because I am imaginative, but it happens. I don't consider it factual, but an interesting phenomenon. When communicating one-on-one in focused environments like teaching, I will get rather strong gut feelings about what the other person is feeling on the inside. I can't prove if it is accurate and so I consider it is a weird sort of social anxiety on my part, perhaps empathy that approximates their emotional states based on external cues, etc. I will respond to it for lack of other sources of information.

These impressions are some sort of combination of N and F - probably Fe filtered through Ni since the emotion is absorbed from the outside world and I have an intuitive response that tries to make coherent sense of the impression, and my analysis of them likely Ti.

It can feel like a pretty dangerous way to approach the world to just go off of impressions and so I try to be rigorous about keeping it at arms length and observe it over time to integrate as much rationalistic thinking into my conclusions about it as possible. Coherent thought processes are highly important to me, and so having these various systems can cause some level of cognitive dissonance which I try to resolve by using intuition as an approximation which is always scrutinized by reason to attempt to sharpen its focus.

 

[rav3n]

I question the sanity of anyone who allows astrology and mysticism to impact on their real life decisions. But it can be entertaining, if kept in the realm of fantasy.

 

[Qlip]

I question the sanity of anyone who allows astrology and mysticism to impact on their real life decisions. But it can be entertaining, if kept in the realm of fantasy.

Hmmm... mysticism isn't what you think it is. At least not for me. I'm not sure how to explain it.

I guess an aspect of my life is using things like Astrology (but not that) to inform me.. but It's with an understanding that whatever it is I'm using is an externalized aspect of myself. If it puts you more at ease, it could be said that I'm accessing my subconscious in a controlled manner. People can do this, of course, without even realizing exactly what they are doing, yet obtain useful guidance.

Even all that ^^^ isn't what I personally would call mysticism, though.

 

[Ene]

This topic came up in another thread, and it is something I am curious about.

What do you consider to be mystical thinking?

Do you have thoughts and beliefs that reflect this concept of mysticism?

Which function(s) do you think contribute to your mystical thinking and describe how do you approach it?

What do I consider to be mystical thinking?

Eek...I'm not so sure there is such a thing. I think I just think. I don't believe that mysticism has to be connected with palm reading, astrology and so forth. I think it is merely having the ability to see past the surface. For example, I attend a lot of festivals where I sketch people. They sit in a chair and I draw them and while I draw them, I begin to "understand" things about them, things they aren't even aware of. I've seen people break down and cry while I drew their faces, because I made a comment about their eyes or about how I can tell they are a family person and so on and so forth.

Do you have thoughts and beliefs that reflect this concept of mysticism?

Yes. I do.


There is nothing so hidden that it can't be revealed with time, patience, a teachable and open spirit and a relentless desire to understand. Perhaps, the key to mysticism isn't in seeming mystical or attempting to prove what you can do, but just in being open to what's already there. Or maybe, it's just the culture I come from. In my world all things are connected. Life is like a bike wheel with the core being the center and all things radiating out from it to form a never ending circle. I was raised to believe that the veil between the spirit world and the physical world is very thin. I was taught that the spirit world is always trying to communicate with us, but we have to be willing to listen to it. Everybody has the potential to be spiritual/mystical but it's just stronger in some people than others because they hone it.

Which function(s) do you think contribute to your mystical thinking and describe how do you approach it?

I guess it's just a matter of careful observation and intuition combined, that coupled with a genuine compassion for people, a caring for their well being. For example, when I draw people, it's like they're getting their palms read while I draw their faces, but I don't go around claiming to have some mystical power and I'm not into astrology. I did read Tarot cards for a while at the urging of a friend, and I was really good at it, but I quit. I quit because it broke my heart how people wanted some "magic bullet" or "card" to tell them who they were, to define them, to guide them. I realized that in doing that I was enabling people to be spiritually crippled, even lazy. I wasn't really helping them. I felt a strong conviction that people need to learn to pray for themselves, to meditate on their own, move their own chi and so forth. I came to the realization that everybody has the ability to know truths about themselves if only they are honest enough to really look and then accept what they see. Maybe personality typing is kind of that way, too. Maybe we all have an image of what we want to be. But there's nothing wrong with what we are. For example, I'm an INFJ. I was one before I knew I was one. In college people told me I was "mystical". I was amused. I didn't see where they got that, because to me, I was just me--well, normal. At least I was normal for me. Then a professor enlightened me that my experiences weren't normal. Who knew? In my family they were normal. In my culture, they were normal. I think mysticism is partially being able to look at yourself and others without being judgmental [not the same as a judging function], because only then can we begin to see things objectively.

I get really tickled at a lot of people who run around doing all sorts of things to be "mystical" and "spiritual" and I think, "Geesh, people, just open your eyes and get outside your own desires." But then again, maybe I'm no different. Who knows? I know one thing, anyone who possesses himself/herself to be wise is probably foolish or at least very near-sighted.

***Oh, and I don't really mind if others question my sanity. You would find me amusing and maybe entertaining! My insanity has served me well. I just get online because, well, I have an insatiable desire to learn.

 

[Qlip]

I get really tickled at a lot of people who run around doing all sorts of things to be "mystical" and "spiritual" and I think, "Geesh, people, just open your eyes and get outside your own desires." But then again, maybe I'm no different. Who knows? I know one thing, anyone who possesses himself/herself to be wise is probably foolish or at least very near-sighted.

Yeah, I do see a lot of people who use this stuff to be able to do what they want without having to justify their actions.

 

[Capricorn Moon]

I wouldn't be honest if i say i am not attracted to everything hidden, unconventional, or say it, mystical.
As for astrology or other kinds of reading, it's not just what people think. It's more about symbols and hidden meaning of symbols, and their combination, not about predicting future. One symbol in combination with another, and another... build some kind of system and you get totally new picture what opens door to many possibilities. Like letters makes written words, or notes makes music... And except there, in astrology is history of human kind, reading old textes from it and pay attention on way they are written, you learn about past, about believing of people who lived many years before you, to learn about myths they created. Understanding past is the key for understanding future, for me. And present keeps ''pictures'' of both past and future. But signs are not only in astrology, they are everywhere around us, and in us. However, i know it's totally wrong to take money from people for some readings or predictions, and i wouldn't suggest to anyone to do it. If there is something you shoud know, you will find out when it's time for that. Astrology alone, can't give much answers.

 

[Reverie]

I echo [MENTION=16382]Ene[/MENTION] on this subject. I feel very similarly on the subject and have had an interest in Astrology and the Tarot but decided to not pursue them for the same reasons. I would say in defense of astrology that it is definitely not what people generally think it is.

What do you consider to be mystical thinking?

Well I think for me I've always just had a feeling there is something of a different reality, beyond or embedded in reality as it's generally considered. I'm issuing a disclaimer though. What I'm saying on this subject is symbolic, an approximation, and I don't mean to use words with their concretely meaning but more as arrows shot into the dark in the general direction of... Mystical thinking as I see it is noticing certain signs and symbols in your environment or within you that seem to point at this fuller reality, that others would consider arbitrary. For someone who trusts this mystical reasoning these signs don't seem arbitrary but telling of something about the true nature of reality and ourselves or God if you like. Paying attention to the sign and keeping your heart connected to others can give you insights and information you shouldn't otherwise posess (generally considered impossible).
Do you have thoughts and beliefs that reflect this concept of mysticism?
I would consider myself at core a mystical thinker. I resonate strongly with buddhist thought, Tao Te Ching, Meister Eckhart and many mystics' writings from different traditions because they describe something familiar. I get what [MENTION=16382]Ene[/MENTION] is saying about the bike wheel. This is how I feel reality is also. ...though I don't think mine or people's feelings or thinking or not thinking about it makes a difference. It's there. It's not something you can empirically prove or reason yourself into so. Or necessarily strive for. At the same time it's the most democratic thing as it's in everyone's reach and in some way our birthright. Just not often found because we're overlooking it. Myself included.

Which function(s) do you think contribute to your mystical thinking and describe how do you approach it?
If you want to model this in MBTI speak I would say that that type of irrational symbolic reductionist thinking may be Ni+Ti and the reality of indivisible human to human interconnectedness maybe Fe. Ni-Se akin to the view of looking at a thing impersonally from a kind of a bird's eye view and at the same time aiming to be rooted strongly in the present reality.


I do periodically try to reframe my own reality in several ways, MBTI could be one, or you could just look at it more empirically, or which you wish. For me personally I choose to live looking at life this way. It's never stopped me from being a functioning part of society in the traditional sense or from being "normal". It's my internal disposition.

 

[Little_Sticks]

What do you consider to be mystical thinking?

Truth is, I stumbled on it accidentally while trying to figure out the phenomenon of things like light, electromagnetic waves, gravitational fields, "space", etc. The pondering ended up directing me into philosophical problems that I had to create answers/solutions for in order to figure out what I wanted. This basically means taking opposing ideas and integrating them, which I guess is nonsensical to someone who refuses to entertain the notion as inherently absurd, as well as dealing with certain paradoxes by finding answers/solutions that incorporate them axiomatically.

I guess, basically any thinking that exceeds what is thought to be common sense and can't be demonstrated without some level of abstraction, could be labeled mysticism and shrugged off by ... the less thoughtful.

Do you have thoughts and beliefs that reflect this concept of mysticism?

...

Which function(s) do you think contribute to your mystical thinking and describe how do you approach it?

Ni and Fi (not MBTI - not JCF - but Jung).
Sometimes I think Fi is mystical since its domain deals exclusively with its relation to others, a focusing upon the abstract mental landscapes of others and the judgments that result from it. But Ni is probably more mystical, since it can abstract dimensions of thought by infusing them into archetypes, creating higher dimensions of understanding, whereas Fi is more like a collectively parsed kind of understanding.

The approach is kind of implicit in the function, I'd say. Well Jung's seem that way, maybe not MBTI though that believes Fi is just "values" and silly uninspired shit like that.