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ISFP Is Not A Type

Mal12345

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ISFP is not a type, it is a combination of two types, ISTP and ESFP.

About a year ago on this forum I stated that the ISFP was an odd type, in that it seemed to be some kind of exception to the rule. Of course my assertion was met with skepticism at that time, although it was only a hypothesis. But it should have been obvious all along.

The following video isn't proof of my hypothesis, but it does give a good example. Notice how the "mood" of the video changes dramatically around the 3:04 point


from "touchy-feely" to "fast cars." Since I have been married to an ISFP for almost 6 years, I can personally vouch for its accuracy.

As I said a year ago, the "ISFP" is really a true ambivert, a type not allowed for by the MBTI or Jung. This is a personality with two dominant functions, but never with both featured prominently at the same time. They war with each other, they push and pull within the psyche of the "ISFP," producing a character having a single label.
 

Pod'lair

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ISFP is not a type, it is a combination of two types, ISTP and ESFP.

About a year ago on this forum I stated that the ISFP was an odd type, in that it seemed to be some kind of exception to the rule. Of course my assertion was met with skepticism at that time, although it was only a hypothesis. But it should have been obvious all along.

The following video isn't proof of my hypothesis, but it does give a good example. Notice how the "mood" of the video changes dramatically around the 3:04 point


from "touchy-feely" to "fast cars." Since I have been married to an ISFP for almost 6 years, I can personally vouch for its accuracy.

As I said a year ago, the "ISFP" is really a true ambivert, a type not allowed for by the MBTI or Jung. This is a personality with two dominant functions, but never with both featured prominently at the same time. They war with each other, they push and pull within the psyche of the "ISFP," producing a character having a single label.

Wouldn't there still be a distinction between the two other types though? I mean, could we really consider all traits that appear on an ISFP to be due to innate fixations of ISTP and ESFP.

Also, should we now consider an ISFP to have a bit of Ti related functioning within consciousness?
 

jixmixfix

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ISFP is not a type, it is a combination of two types, ISTP and ESFP.

About a year ago on this forum I stated that the ISFP was an odd type, in that it seemed to be some kind of exception to the rule. Of course my assertion was met with skepticism at that time, although it was only a hypothesis. But it should have been obvious all along.

The following video isn't proof of my hypothesis, but it does give a good example. Notice how the "mood" of the video changes dramatically around the 3:04 point


from "touchy-feely" to "fast cars." Since I have been married to an ISFP for almost 6 years, I can personally vouch for its accuracy.

As I said a year ago, the "ISFP" is really a true ambivert, a type not allowed for by the MBTI or Jung. This is a personality with two dominant functions, but never with both featured prominently at the same time. They war with each other, they push and pull within the psyche of the "ISFP," producing a character having a single label.

Ok well ISTP is not a type either it's a mix of ESTP and ISFP.....lol I don't see how ISFPs are any more special than anyone else that's just bad logic.
 

Mal12345

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Wouldn't there still be a distinction between the two other types though? I mean, could we really consider all traits that appear on an ISFP to be due to innate fixations of ISTP and ESFP.

I'm seeing it more holistically, or rather, more dialectically. Something is created out of the conflict of motives, I called that a "character" in the OP, and not a personality. A character is the representation that results. It may create a negative or a positive character, either self-destructive or creative in its goals depending. I'm not saying there isn't a personality, there's actually quite a bit of it, deep in some ways and shallow in others.

Also, should we now consider an ISFP to have a bit of Ti related functioning within consciousness?

When you say "Ti," do you mean contemplative and deep, or scheming? Or something else? As far as "deep thinker," no. Personality analysis breaks down when I take it to the function level, because a personality is more than that. The problem is that every time I have analyzed the "ISFP" in terms of functions, the personality is no longer captured.
 

Mal12345

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Ok well ISTP is not a type either it's a mix of ESTP and ISFP.....lol I don't see how ISFPs are any more special than anyone else that's just bad logic.

My observation of the ISTP type (viz, real people) hasn't revealed any such dichotomy.
 

Pod'lair

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I'm seeing it more holistically, or rather, more dialectically. Something is created out of the conflict of motives, I called that a "character" in the OP, and not a personality. A character is the representation that results. It may create a negative or a positive character, either self-destructive or creative in its goals depending. I'm not saying there isn't a personality, there's actually quite a bit of it, deep in some ways and shallow in others.



When you say "Ti," do you mean contemplative and deep, or scheming? Or something else? As far as "deep thinker," no. Personality analysis breaks down when I take it to the function level, because a personality is more than that. The problem is that every time I have analyzed the "ISFP" in terms of functions, the personality is no longer captured.

Personality can be defined in everything that I've outlined.

In the case you've provided, do you identify your understanding of this kind of personality as innate? Also, what do you mean by "ambivert"?

Are you referring to ones preference at a given time of day? In this case, I'm not sure I would identify this as a sort of "push and pull within the psyche".
 

Craft

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Nah. The ISFPs i know are "pure" FiSe, especially my mom. Her most FiSe statement was "how i feel depends on the quality of my sensations", she said that in our own language so translation might be off a little.
 

INFPneo

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ISFPs are dominant FI. Although their Auxiliary is SE, neither their Tertiary, nor Inferior are TI. I would say it's their auxiliary that makes them seem childish, but it doesn't mean they are the same as an ESFP. A lot of ISFPs and ISTPs I know are so different that it's ridiculous.
 

Mal12345

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ISFPs are dominant FI. Although their Auxiliary is SE, neither their Tertiary, nor Inferior are TI. I would say it's their auxiliary that makes them seem childish, but it doesn't mean they are the same as an ESFP. A lot of ISFPs and ISTPs I know are so different that it's ridiculous.

"Childish" (or better, "child-like"). I don't think in any of the terms you use here.
 

Mal12345

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Personality can be defined in everything that I've outlined.

In the case you've provided, do you identify your understanding of this kind of personality as innate? Also, what do you mean by "ambivert"?

Are you referring to ones preference at a given time of day? In this case, I'm not sure I would identify this as a sort of "push and pull within the psyche".

What have you outlined? Cognitive functions such as Ti are not personality. I can't break a personality down into itty-bitty cognitive functions without losing the personality.
 

Mal12345

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Personality can be defined in everything that I've outlined.

In the case you've provided, do you identify your understanding of this kind of personality as innate? Also, what do you mean by "ambivert"?

Are you referring to ones preference at a given time of day? In this case, I'm not sure I would identify this as a sort of "push and pull within the psyche".

What have you outlined? Cognitive functions such as Ti are not personality. I can't break a personality down into itty-bitty cognitive functions without losing the personality.
 

zelo1954

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ISFP is not a type, it is a combination of two types, ISTP and ESFP

My gut feeling here tells me that ISFP is as critical to the Myers-Briggs typology model as the charmed quark or the muon neutrino is to the standard model, or the element technetium is to the periodic table. No ISFP and the model falls apart.
 

Mal12345

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My gut feeling here tells me that ISFP is as critical to the Myers-Briggs typology model as the charmed quark or the muon neutrino is to the standard model, or the element technetium is to the periodic table. No ISFP and the model falls apart.

The only thing holding the MBTI together is faith.
 

zelo1954

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The only thing holding the MBTI together is faith.

I think this is unfair. I'm sure most if not all people on this forum can see themselves fitting into the model. Most of us don't fit one type exclusively but stray into neighbouring types on the model. If there's anything wrong with it I'd say it's more a case of being incomplete rather than being wrong. 4 dimensions equates to 16 types. Someone smarter than we are may eventually suggest another dimension and develop the model further. A number of people on this forum come at the MBTI using function analysis. This imo further validates the model. Even Newtonian mechanics is incomplete but, hell, it's a pretty good approximation for the real world we live in. So is the MBTI imo.
 

Savage Idealist

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ISFP is not a type, it is a combination of two types, ISTP and ESFP.

That's nonsensical. The arbitrary model of typology is nothing without an even amount of 'types'. That and considering ISFP as not a type is . . . just silly. Couldn't then anyone say the exact same thing regarding ENFJ, ENTJ, ESTP, etc.?
 

Mal12345

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That's nonsensical. The arbitrary model of typology is nothing without an even amount of 'types'. That and considering ISFP as not a type is . . . just silly. Couldn't then anyone say the exact same thing regarding ENFJ, ENTJ, ESTP, etc.?

I don't see any reason to say the same thing about those 3 types (not counting the etc). I've been considering the ISTJ as another possible candidate for elimination as a type, but that's the only other one. Because that's the only other type I've always considered an ambivert, a mixture of extraversion and introversion.
 

wolfy

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I think there is something funny about the isfp type. It seems like a catch all in typology systems.
 

Mal12345

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I think this is unfair. I'm sure most if not all people on this forum can see themselves fitting into the model. Most of us don't fit one type exclusively but stray into neighbouring types on the model. If there's anything wrong with it I'd say it's more a case of being incomplete rather than being wrong. 4 dimensions equates to 16 types. Someone smarter than we are may eventually suggest another dimension and develop the model further. A number of people on this forum come at the MBTI using function analysis. This imo further validates the model. Even Newtonian mechanics is incomplete but, hell, it's a pretty good approximation for the real world we live in. So is the MBTI imo.

It sucks to be a split type, but only if you hold the MBTI model sacred. It also sucks to be the type of person I've seen in real life: one who is in a quandary due to being split between two very different motives and having to decide between them.

If there is more explanatory power, even healing power, in revealing this dichotomy, then I think that's more than fair.

I'm not seeing this in terms of functions, that's just an assumption-based model for the MBTI. It assumes that the P or J in a type comes from the ordering of functions, for example, that the Ni/Te type has to pursue J-closure. It also breaks down where I see the ESFP/ISTP division in terms of Se/Ti, because the resulting type is more than a combination of its functions. IOW, ESFP is not equal to Se+Fi. Yet the ISFP comes across as a divided type, as if two dominant personalities, not functions, are present in the psyche.
 

Giggly

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I think there is something funny about the isfp type. It seems like a catch all in typology systems.

I agree, and I think this might be why I formally tested as ISFP.
 
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