DAMN IT! I WANT TO HEAR FI USERS EXPRESS THEIR FEELINGS!

[Randomnity]

Hmmm, maybe it's kind of like that Auto-play thread. I posted in there out of principal, even though I am annoyed by autoplay and I realize the majority of others are as well. It has nothing to do with the 'needs of the many'. Do Fe users often feel the need to defend things that they and even most people don't like?

uhhh what? no? Why would I think something is "right" and yet not hold that opinion myself? If I thought it was the best choice, I'd have chosen it. Devil's advocate and arguing all sides of a story are a bit different, but I wouldn't argue for a side I didn't believe in because of....principles? Particularly when the points have already been brought up by others.

I don't get it at all.

 

[Randomnity]

and wtf, are you guys implying that the arguments in the autoplay thread were completely meaningless because all the fi users in a huff over there don't even believe what they're saying?

please tell me that I'm misunderstanding, because...omg.

 

[Lady_X]

edit: responding to my post up there.

wait...not that way ^^ like that obnoxiously aggressive way...but the right of someone to make that choice for themself in however way they want to express themself on their page or in their house or with their art or whatever freedom of expression man!!

 

[KDude]

[MENTION=9214]KDude[/MENTION]

That is a type of principal, what would you do if you felt everybody else was wrong.. except for the guy who wasn't your friend? Would you go task for it?.

If I got involved, I know I'd have to muster up some kind of persuasive Fe/Ti approach there. Reason with them if they were friends. I'd think twice of getting aggressive. If it got ugly, I'd get him out. Tell them "Screw it.. what can you do?"

 

[Qlip]

uhhh what? no? Why would I think something is "right" and yet not hold that opinion myself? If I thought it was the best choice, I'd have chosen it. Devil's advocate and arguing all sides of a story are a bit different, but I wouldn't argue for a side I didn't believe in because of....principles? Particularly when the points have already been brought up by others.

I don't get it at all.

I differentiate between what I like and what is 'right'. They're not always the same thing.. and what's right is usually paramount.

 

[Lady_X]

and wtf, are you guys implying that the arguments in the autoplay thread were completely meaningless because all the fi users in a huff over there don't even believe what they're saying?

please tell me that I'm misunderstanding, because...omg.

haha this is so funny to me

i have no idea what other fi users position was. "i" don't think it's rude. i do think it can be annoying but it's not my place to tell you not to annoy me. i think it's more rude to tell you what to do. haha oh shits its all convoluted.

 

[Randomnity]

I differentiate between what I like and what is 'right'. They're not always the same thing.. and what's right is usually paramount.

Oh ok, that makes more sense. I do that too, but I guess I don't really interpret it in the same way because it's like....my personal feelings are X, but I think the right thing for the overall situation is Y, and therefore I'll make an argument for Y (as "my opinion of the best thing to do") in the thread and maybe mention X off-handedly, or maybe not. Which kinda sounds the same on the surface, only it seems like my "the right thing" is based on what I perceive to be best for everyone overall, and your "the right thing" is based on....your internal principles?

edit:
whereas to me it would seem like a lot of Fi users either argue for X in the thread, or argue for a new option, Z: what they think is the most "moral" thing to do, more or less regardless of how it affects people?

Maybe this is really just a false dichotomy. I'm confusing myself again.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

My Fi serves more as a guidepost, and a way of understanding right and wrong than it is any immediately conscious emotional interpretation of whats going on right now.

I hate to have to do it, but when an emotional issue arises that needs dealing with, I will seclude myself and try to figure out how I feel about it. This only happens rarely, and usually entails some sort of big life decision.

I do unto others what I would want done to me, more than I gauge what would make everyone happy.

I share my mirth easily, and love to talk and crack jokes, but that is just the social me keeping my positive emotions at the forefront in an effort to keep my deep how do I feel about this thoughts under wraps.

I can mask myself socially until I know how I want to respond to a situation that displeases me. I'm much less duplicitous with close friends, family etc.

That being said I am becoming a better listener. I'll keep those who I'm not a fan of at a distance, but it is very easy to become a friend of mine. Getting any closer than that requires a good bit more.

In my book kindness must occasionally make way for fairness or justice. Responsibility, duty, loyalty and honor mean a lot to me.

But so does love.

 

[Qlip]

Oh ok, that makes more sense. I do that too, but I guess I don't really interpret it in the same way because it's like....my personal feelings are X, but I think the right thing for the overall situation is Y, and therefore I'll make an argument for Y (as "my opinion of the best thing to do") in the thread and maybe mention X off-handedly, or maybe not. Which kinda sounds the same on the surface, only it seems like my "the right thing" is based on what I perceive to be best for everyone overall, and your "the right thing" is based on....your internal principles?
edit:
whereas to me it would seem like a lot of Fi users either argue for X in the thread, or argue for a new option, Z: what they think is the most "moral" thing to do, more or less regardless of how it affects people?

Maybe this is really just a false dichotomy. I'm confusing myself again.

Grr, I have to retype this because I lost my last response.

My answer is yes, and I think maybe a better word for principals is 'ideal'. Like for auto-play, I had to say a word for the ideal that in a personal space an owner should have more control over content than the visitor. And I hesitated to type that last sentence, because I don't want to sound like I'm campaigning. Another ideal I have is that everybody should face each other on equal ground, even if that means hobbling myself with somebody else in a conflict.

I think we both have principals, it's just their focus is different.

 

[KDude]

I can't even address "autoplay" with any moral dynamics to it. That's kind of crazy to me that it's going that far.. I haven't really read that thread. I'd agree that it's no one's business though.

 

[Lady_X]

Grr, I have to retype this because I lost my last response.

My answer is yes, and I think maybe a better word for principals is 'ideal'. Like for auto-play, I had to say a word for the ideal that in a personal space an owner should have more control over content than the visitor. And I hesitated to type that last sentence, because I don't want to sound like I'm campaigning. Another ideal I have is that everybody should face each other on equal ground, even if that means hobbling myself with somebody else in a conflict.

I think we both have principals, it's just their focus is different.

yes yes perfect explanation thank you. sometimes i just can't find the words.

 

[Randomnity]

Grr, I have to retype this because I lost my last response.

My answer is yes, and I think maybe a better word for principals is 'ideal'. Like for auto-play, I had to say a word for the ideal that in a personal space an owner should have more control over content than the visitor. And I hesitated to type that last sentence, because I don't want to sound like I'm campaigning. Another ideal I have is that everybody should face each other on equal ground, even if that means hobbling myself with somebody else in a conflict.

I think we both have principals, it's just their focus is different.

I guess that makes sense. I have a hard time understanding how any principle could be more important than how something affects other people, but I guess that's just a difference of opinion.

But then I guess I could take an extreme example like "does a murderer still need to be punished if nobody still living is hurt by his actions", and I would have to say yes, so I guess there is the principle of fairness outweighing how it affects people (i.e. the murderer)....but then, if the punishment was perceived to be unfair, that is still affecting the people who are perceiving. So it's hard to say if it's really the principle there or if it's the reason for the principle in the first place (fairness isn't necessarily a virtue in a vaccuum - it's more that it's a good practice both for civilized society and to avoid hurt feelings etc.)

don't mind me, just rambling.

 

[MacGuffin]

Do Fe users often feel the need to defend things that they and even most people don't like?

No.

 

[prplchknz]

ok so my fi goes bleep blip bloop when it goes off, but its nice because i know it exists, so all you have to do find your bleep blip bloop and you'll be free. but its nice, it knows when its wanted and when it needs to be tucked away. it serves me well, but sometimes its not right, but it's ok so really what do i have to complain about? you can't describe fi in words, or at least i can't. and i don't mean that to be mysterious, i mean i can't i've tried but i just can't.

 

[Qlip]

I can't even address "autoplay" with any moral dynamics to it. That's kind of crazy to me that it's going that far.. I haven't really read that thread. I'd agree that it's no one's business though.

Maybe it has to do with having a tertiary feeling function? I guess Randomnity has that too, maybe that gets expressed in everyone differently.

I guess that makes sense. I have a hard time understanding how any principle could be more important than how something affects other people, but I guess that's just a difference of opinion.

But then I guess I could take an extreme example like "does a murderer still need to be punished if nobody still living is hurt by his actions", and I would have to say yes, so I guess there is the principle of fairness outweighing how it affects people (i.e. the murderer)....but then, if the punishment was perceived to be unfair, that is still affecting the people who are perceiving. So it's hard to say if it's really the principle there or if it's the reason for the principle in the first place (fairness isn't necessarily a virtue in a vaccuum - it's more that it's a good practice both for civilized society and to avoid hurt feelings etc.)

don't mind me, just rambling.

Haha.. it's after lunch and I'm slightly drowsy, thanks for letting me off the hook. I get the gist, though. Fi doesn't come from nowhere, though. I'm quite sure my ideals are based in the principals of how it would be best for everybody. They seem more crystalized than Fe, they're formed in a different process.

 

[Coriolis]

On top of that, sharing that part of yourself, when it isnt welcome, causes intense feelings of rejection and shame, as we dont want to burden the person with that type of intense messy shit, if it isnt welcomed (we know first hand how difficult that stuff can be to wade through).

Even my tert Fi has this one figured out. A critical criterion for my sharing this sort of stuff with someone is that they must sincerely want to hear it. A generic kindly shoulder to cry on just won't do. Only a handful of people have ever met this criterion.

 

[Lady_X]

I guess that makes sense. I have a hard time understanding how any principle could be more important than how something affects other people, but I guess that's just a difference of opinion.

But then I guess I could take an extreme example like "does a murderer still need to be punished if nobody still living is hurt by his actions", and I would have to say yes, so I guess there is the principle of fairness outweighing how it affects people (i.e. the murderer)....but then, if the punishment was perceived to be unfair, that is still affecting the people who are perceiving. So it's hard to say if it's really the principle there or if it's the reason for the principle in the first place (fairness isn't necessarily a virtue in a vaccuum - it's more that it's a good practice both for civilized society and to avoid hurt feelings etc.)

don't mind me, just rambling.

think of it like this...

there's 15 kids all surrounding a bully and the kid he's picking on. the kids watching are egging him on. they wanna see a fight. they laugh at the bully's cruel jokes.

the majority as i see it does not win. their rights do not outweigh the individual because of the inherent truth of what is right.

 

[MacGuffin]

think of it like this...

there's 15 kids all surrounding a bully and the kid he's picking on. the kids watching are egging him on. they wanna see a fight. they laugh at the bully's cruel jokes.

the majority as i see it does not win. their rights do not outweigh the individual because of the inherent truth of what is right.

Except you're the aural bullies!

 

[greenfairy]

so difficult to put into words...truly it is.

but i'll try...imagine for a moment that i have been to heaven and back and i have seen and felt the truth. i know with every thing that i am what love is...i know how utterly sacred the human spirit is.

and here i am walking around with this knowing...this knowing of the value of each individual...and what rights we each have to experience all the depth of beauty this life has to offer...so when i see someone step on that right...or attempt to take it from another...it hurts my heart...truly pains it. not in some slight way but in a blasphemous deep deep hurt...like they are going against all that is right...all that should be and all that each individual deserves. it is a sense of knowing something is wrong by emphatically feeling what it does to others...if it causes hurt to you...if it in anyway takes away your inherent rights. it is wrong.

i feel that the individual spirit is sacred and should be protected at all costs.

i feel my way through the world...i experience the world not only through the sights and sounds but the feeling impressions that i encounter throughout the day. i am terribly nostalgic and idealistic and my thoughts wander like that of a child playing make believe...so how i feel is often determined by what i'm imagining at the time....certain activities/places can be enjoyable because maybe it reminds me of a beautiful scene in a movie i saw once...or a favorite memory...or whatever place my mind has wandered off to

Well, I can relate to this. I feel inextricably connected to all the life energy on Earth in all its forms, and the Earth itself. When other beings are harmed it hurts me too. Could Fe not feel this way too? Because of the collectivism?

My feelings aren't what I would call grandiose though. More like dramatic in a glamorous way- like I wouldn't see any use for them if they didn't impress an audience. Maybe that's unusual. Like I'm a movie star in my own mind, except it's more about attitude than drama. Any Fi users feel this way? Or are they just about the allure of the drama?

 

[Lady_X]

Except you're the aural bullies!

^^ that's only because you think the profile should be controlled by the community not the member.