Ask me about introverted feeling (Fi).

[Fluffywolf]

Tricky questions (but very interesting nonetheless).

As a tertiary Fi user:

-How do you deal with people that follow a certain path that is different from the path you, as a Fi user, think is right for that person.
-How far are you willing to go in order to try and help/steer that person in your direction?
-Where do you draw the line of respecting other peoples ways, regardless of the fact it is right for them or not.
-How does it make you feel when you can't persuade or force a person to conform to your ideal.

 

[SilkRoad]

As an Fe user, I have a feeling that there is an internal consistency to Fi...but I can't see it and don't understand it at all. Or not very much.

Visibly, Fi users often seem inconsistent to me - sometimes extremely inconsistent - but I have a feeling they are staying true to their own values. Can you help me to understand this better? Sorry, it's a bit vague but I hope you know what I'm getting at.

 

[Anew Leaf]

As an Fe user, I have a feeling that there is an internal consistency to Fi...but I can't see it and don't understand it at all. Or not very much.

Visibly, Fi users often seem inconsistent to me - sometimes extremely inconsistent - but I have a feeling they are staying true to their own values. Can you help me to understand this better? Sorry, it's a bit vague but I hope you know what I'm getting at.

I really get that Fi can look quite inconsistent on the surface. I sort of dislike that about myself at times, but I can't help it. Fi is very fluid to me. I think I compared it to a Newtonian Solid one time in another thread a long time ago, but I think it's quite true. I like keeping my ideas to myself so I can change them if I need to once I get more information. I have a very small but key set of values tucked way deep within me that I will almost never budge on, but everything else is fair game to change.

I don't know if it's that I dislike being wrong or if it's more that I dislike stating something and having to retract it (makes me look flaky) but it's a big piece of why I like keeping things to myself. It's like in dating... I may start off thinking, oh this guy is awesome, I <3 him. And I am feeling all warm and cuddly deep below the surface and I want to express it, but I realize I may not know enough about him quite yet to truly be decided... So I keep it to myself. Then I find out he chews with his mouth open, never wants to travel outside of the cities, or has no working knowledge of the solar system, and my attraction completely dies. I am relieved because I can now change my mind and disengage without it having to be a Big Talking Deal.

There is a giant inherent flaw in this system that I am more and more realizing. I am not sure how to change it, however. Perhaps being aware of it will be enough.

 

[SilkRoad]

I really get that Fi can look quite inconsistent on the surface. I sort of dislike that about myself at times, but I can't help it. Fi is very fluid to me. I think I compared it to a Newtonian Solid one time in another thread a long time ago, but I think it's quite true. I like keeping my ideas to myself so I can change them if I need to once I get more information. I have a very small but key set of values tucked way deep within me that I will almost never budge on, but everything else is fair game to change.

I don't know if it's that I dislike being wrong or if it's more that I dislike stating something and having to retract it (makes me look flaky) but it's a big piece of why I like keeping things to myself. It's like in dating... I may start off thinking, oh this guy is awesome, I <3 him. And I am feeling all warm and cuddly deep below the surface and I want to express it, but I realize I may not know enough about him quite yet to truly be decided... So I keep it to myself. Then I find out he chews with his mouth open, never wants to travel outside of the cities, or has no working knowledge of the solar system, and my attraction completely dies. I am relieved because I can now change my mind and disengage without it having to be a Big Talking Deal.

There is a giant inherent flaw in this system that I am more and more realizing. I am not sure how to change it, however. Perhaps being aware of it will be enough.

It's interesting that I kind of relate to what you say, in terms of not wanting to put yourself out there too much (in a way) to then get shot down or look like an idiot - if that's more or less what you're saying! But I am definitely Fe. I have a feeling that for an Fi user, this impulse might be more about wanting to protect your inner feelings, which are valuable and potentially fragile; for an Fe user it might be more about not wanting others to perceive you as inconsistent... Something like that.

I do think that Fe users will do something apparently "inconsistent" because they've "gone along" with a situation they're uncomfortable with for too long, so as not to rock the boat or to be polite, or they're not sure how they feel about it, and then the volcano erupts. With Fi users maybe it's more that they're genuinely kind of go-with-the-flow until you hit a deeply held inner value?

 

[Anew Leaf]

It's interesting that I kind of relate to what you say, in terms of not wanting to put yourself out there too much (in a way) to then get shot down or look like an idiot - if that's more or less what you're saying! But I am definitely Fe. I have a feeling that for an Fi user, this impulse might be more about wanting to protect your inner feelings, which are valuable and potentially fragile; for an Fe user it might be more about not wanting others to perceive you as inconsistent... Something like that.

I do think that Fe users will do something apparently "inconsistent" because they've "gone along" with a situation they're uncomfortable with for too long, so as not to rock the boat or to be polite, or they're not sure how they feel about it, and then the volcano erupts. With Fi users maybe it's more that they're genuinely kind of go-with-the-flow until you hit a deeply held inner value?

For me, it's not necessarily wholly about not getting shot down per se. It's more like I want the ability to change my mind and not be pinned down with the least amount of effort required. In the dating example, if I keep things to myself for awhile I can change my mind whenever I need to, and not have it be a big deal. I dislike immensely the idea of letting someone think I am into them when maybe I find out that isn't true. It bothers me because I a: may hurt their own feelings and b: will feel trapped into honoring my initial emotions.

However, there is definitely something to wanting to protect my inner self. It's a combination of many things.... If I feel really strongly about someone then it becomes hard not to express myself and just put myself out there, vulnerability be damned. But there have to be the right kind of circumstances for that moment.

I guess in the end I find I have control over a situation if I can keep people guessing on what I am really thinking/feeling and that makes me feel secure. Once I can be pinned down into a section of emotion then I feel incredibly vulnerable and I have learned that there are many people out there who will take full advantage of such an occurrance. Which is too bad because it reinforces my need to keep myself walled off, when I really should be learning how to unfold.

Edit: I am generally go with the flow because it requires less energy. There is a very very small, select sub-set of things that will change that desire... and that's what I reserve energy for. Otherwise, I just don't see the point.

 

[Kayness]

As an Fe user, I have a feeling that there is an internal consistency to Fi...but I can't see it and don't understand it at all. Or not very much.

Visibly, Fi users often seem inconsistent to me - sometimes extremely inconsistent - but I have a feeling they are staying true to their own values. Can you help me to understand this better? Sorry, it's a bit vague but I hope you know what I'm getting at.

I think I do but do you have a specific situation/scenario in mind?

 

[The Iron Giant]

How does Fi manifest itself in inferior Fi users? How do inferior Fi and inferior Fe differ?

That's a great question. I have observed that inferior Fe can manifest as a somewhat challenged demeanor where social etiquette is concerned. I read a description of the INTP once that seemed very accurate to my observations. It said that an INTP who feels crossed may explode angrily, alienate and even frighten a number of people, and then settle down and have no idea quite what just happened... and feel very embarrassed at the abrupt loss of control.

I would surmise that inferior Fi could manifest in times of great stress as an explosion of defensive rage... I would love an ExTJ's input on this though.

 

[The Iron Giant]

Tricky questions (but very interesting nonetheless).

Hit me!

As a tertiary Fi user:

-How do you deal with people that follow a certain path that is different from the path you, as a Fi user, think is right for that person.

Openly and patiently. I try not to offer advice when it is not solicited, and I try not to give advice with the expectation that it will be followed.

-How far are you willing to go in order to try and help/steer that person in your direction?

If I care a lot, as much as they want to be helped or steered, and no more.

-Where do you draw the line of respecting other peoples ways, regardless of the fact it is right for them or not.

I draw that line very distinctly. Who am I to decide what is right for another person? My daughter, who is seven, is the only one I can imagine as the exception to this.

-How does it make you feel when you can't persuade or force a person to conform to your ideal.

I don't think I persuade or force anyone to conform to any ideal that they're not asking me to help them with.

 

[The Iron Giant]

As an Fe user, I have a feeling that there is an internal consistency to Fi...but I can't see it and don't understand it at all. Or not very much.

Visibly, Fi users often seem inconsistent to me - sometimes extremely inconsistent - but I have a feeling they are staying true to their own values. Can you help me to understand this better? Sorry, it's a bit vague but I hope you know what I'm getting at.

As I described earlier (in the active grenades post), the values an Fi user protects form in ways that are very private. I think from the perspective of an Fe user, behaviors that fit the social standard may seem to support that social standard, when instead they may only support something peripheral to it. Since you're only seeing the silent end resulting action, it's impossible to tell where that motivation comes from. So yes, there's a fierce commitment to consistency: harmony between values and actions, in ways that may seem incongruous from the outside.

Overall, Fi is pretty sedate... as I said, silent. It's only when something conflicts with those deeply held values that the Fi user feels uncomfortable, and the nature and scale of their response depends on their stability and development.

 

[The Iron Giant]

I really get that Fi can look quite inconsistent on the surface. I sort of dislike that about myself at times, but I can't help it. Fi is very fluid to me. I think I compared it to a Newtonian Solid one time in another thread a long time ago, but I think it's quite true. I like keeping my ideas to myself so I can change them if I need to once I get more information. I have a very small but key set of values tucked way deep within me that I will almost never budge on, but everything else is fair game to change.

I don't know if it's that I dislike being wrong or if it's more that I dislike stating something and having to retract it (makes me look flaky) but it's a big piece of why I like keeping things to myself. It's like in dating... I may start off thinking, oh this guy is awesome, I <3 him. And I am feeling all warm and cuddly deep below the surface and I want to express it, but I realize I may not know enough about him quite yet to truly be decided... So I keep it to myself. Then I find out he chews with his mouth open, never wants to travel outside of the cities, or has no working knowledge of the solar system, and my attraction completely dies. I am relieved because I can now change my mind and disengage without it having to be a Big Talking Deal.

There is a giant inherent flaw in this system that I am more and more realizing. I am not sure how to change it, however. Perhaps being aware of it will be enough.

And yet it's totally consistent with Fi. If you bust out those feelings early and let yourself roll with the happy experience of falling into the guy, you're totally exposed and vulnerable. Your early opinion of him becomes your reality. Then, when he turns out to be something other than what you believed, he becomes "false" in your mind, corrupting your reality, and this violates your values... which hurts your feelings and reminds you that next time, you'd best keep this stuff to yourself until you're sure it's safe. It also very likely turns the man into a monster in your eyes... when it's possible that all he is is a regular homebody who doesn't know astronomy.

 

[Mia.]

That's a great question. I have observed that inferior Fe can manifest as a somewhat challenged demeanor where social etiquette is concerned. I read a description of the INTP once that seemed very accurate to my observations. It said that an INTP who feels crossed may explode angrily, alienate and even frighten a number of people, and then settle down and have no idea quite what just happened... and feel very embarrassed at the abrupt loss of control.

I would surmise that inferior Fi could manifest in times of great stress as an explosion of defensive rage... I would love an ExTJ's input on this though.

I think someone - I've forgotten who, but it might have been [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] - said in the ESTJ thread the very same things about inferior Fe and Fi. The bolded has been in keeping with my experience.

 

[Phoenix]

[MENTION=15167]Stephen[/MENTION] [and others]

Do you have any thoughts on how to differentiate between Fi as an aux function and Fe as a dominant function?

 

[The Iron Giant]

Do you have any thoughts on how to differentiate between Fi as an aux function and Fe as a dominant function?

Sure. Let's see, Fi aux would be ExFP, Fe dom would be ExFJ.

Keep in mind that the function others will see in use is your first extraverted one. The ExFP has Se or Ne out front, while the ExFJ has Fe out front, while for me, it would be Te.

I think the ExFP would be more outgoing and extraverted seeming, more exuberant. Friendly, playful, excitable people. ExFJ will be a bit quieter I think, more sedate, more calculating about their behavior and actions due to a greater sensitivity to their impact on those around them.

Of course these are all generalizations and will not apply to everyone, but if I was told one person of two was an ExFP and the other was an ExFJ, this is how I would attempt to distinguish them.

 

[Phoenix]

I think the ExFP would be more outgoing and extraverted seeming, more exuberant. Friendly, playful, excitable people. ExFJ will be a bit quieter I think, more sedate, more calculating about their behavior and actions due to a greater sensitivity to their impact on those around them.

Of course these are all generalizations and will not apply to everyone, but if I was told one person of two was an ExFP and the other was an ExFJ, this is how I would attempt to distinguish them.

See -- the reason why I ask is that even though ExFP's are creatures of experience/exuberance as you put it - but what if the problem starts occurring when an ExFP has not been "allowed" to break out like a typical ExFP would --- having been forced into a life of structure/control/restraint - and basically made subservient in order to please and get by through life.

The actual creation of values for ExFP's comes through scanning the environment for possibilities [Ne], or experiencing life in the moment [Se] imo ---- but what if that scanning of possibilities was limited and structured and dictated and forced to conform to a way of believing by being fed information. What I'm trying to state is that even through Fe is generally considered to be the function where people base their values around the values of the group they're around --- would it possible for xxFi to make a similar assessment under a highly structured environment.

Finally, Here's where I really got really confused. Wouldn't Enneagram type really dictate the development of Fi values. ExFP's are typically assumed to be Type 7's --- but an ExFP Type 2 could almost come across as an ExFJ because of her/his inherent motivation to helping people ... Therefore the formulation of values in a Type 2 ExFP's case would revolve around placing a higher value on helping people, being kind, being considerate -- as opposed to the life exploration and self-preservation/pleasure-seeking of Type 7's ---- which is where Fi sounds eerily similar to Fe.

PS. I don't think there's really a question in there -- and more like a verbalization of my thoughts and ideas [I'm an extrovert thinking type I need to verbalize my ideas for them to make sense xD]. Would love to here your thoughts on this.

 

[The Iron Giant]

[MENTION=14235]Phoenix[/MENTION] All good points. One of the problems with mixing these two typologies is that they're really very different. I made the mistake of trying to tie behavior to cognitive functions, when they're really about cognition alone, which is then extrapolated into behavior. It's very difficult to project down the line that way because of the kinds of things that form what is described as an enneagram type, and you've illustrated this issue very well.

The more precision approach is to break them down further, into Ne dom, Se dom, and Fe dom, and distinguish them that way. ENFPs perceive what is not apparent first, then judge it according to their values. ESFPs perceive what is apparent first, then judge that according to their values. ExFJs will perceive an impression of something, based on how they've experienced it in the past, and readily judge its suitability within their understood framework of social expectation. It's much harder to turn this into outward behavior, but it's a more fair approach, because it asks the user to interpret in context.

 

[SoraMayhem]

Is dominant Fi likely to "correct" other people the same way an Fe user would? How 'pushy' is dominant Fi, and does it make a difference whether it's paired with an intuitive function or a sensing one?

 

[Pseudo]

I'm studying cognitive functions, and I have several of them down completely, including Fi. Ask me about it, and let's learn more together.

Why don't Fi users or specifically INFPs understand teasing? No matter how often I apologize or explain to my INFP friend he can't understand that people are joking with him because they like him.

 

[Burger King]

Why don't Fi users or specifically INFPs understand teasing? No matter how often I apologize or explain to my INFP friend he can't understand that people are joking with him because they like him.

Give examples.

Maybe you are being too harsh.

 

[Pseudo]

Give examples.

Maybe you are being too harsh.

We went to dinner one time. Me, his wife (ESFJ) and his brother in law (ESTP). My friends is a pretty big hipster the ESTP is an ultimate frat guy. When they walked in the restaurant the ESTP says "Hey man, nice jorts" in regards to the iNFPs insanely tight cut off jean shorts. Everyone snickers a bit. Nothing else is said. FOUR HOURS LATER on the car ride home he's sulking an trying to get us to admit that we think his clothes are stupid and that we don't like hanging out with him.

 

[Ribonuke]

I have a question...what do you imagine life would be like without good use of Fi? I mean, say if your Extraverted Feeling were just fine, but your Introverted Feeling wasn't?