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How do you use Ti?

The Great One

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I wouldn't expect an Ne to settle on one authoritative statement. But since you had an ESTP boss, maybe you have a better idea than most. Just like me, with my ESTJ boss, who demonstrates plain as day how strongly Si comes through in this strict belief in tradition (although over the years he's allowed an INTJ Mastermind to gently manipulate him away from all that stuff alot of which was nonsensical and purely traditional.)

No, I've worked with actually several ESTP types. The ESTP's would be able to use Ti in the moment, take action, and solve a problem using minimal effort. I would just be dumbfounded. He just took action too fast for me, and I literally had no idea how to solve the problems that fast. My mind has to philosophize for a while and then it will think of a lot of solutions for a problem, including how to make solve a problem. Both of the ESTP types thought I was a useless dumb ass because I would spend too much time contemplating over ways that we could solve a problem and not taking action. I didn't like working with them.

Dominant: Extraverted intuition (Ne)Ne finds and interprets hidden meanings. This intuitive play weaves together insights and experiences from various sources to find the whole, which can then become a catalyst to action.[19] Ne allows the ENTP to effortlessly identify complex interrelationships between ideas, people, and things that are often invisible to most other personality types.[20]

[edit] Auxiliary: Introverted thinking (Ti)Ti seeks precision, such as the exact word to express an idea. It notices the minute distinctions that define the essence of things, then analyzes and classifies them. Ti examines all sides of an issue, looking to solve problems while minimizing effort and risk. It uses models to root out logical inconsistency.[21] In the ENTP, Ti analyzes the constant stream of information that Ne provides. Ti develops structure and reconciles any inconsistencies in the ENTP's belief system. However, Ti cannot match the activity of Ne, which leads the ENTP to juggle multiple projects and theoretical enterprises at any given time, in various stages of completion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENTP

I relate to everything with Ne, and the bolded Ti parts.
 

Mal12345

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No, I've worked with actually several ESTP types. The ESTP's would be able to use Ti in the moment, take action, and solve a problem using minimal effort. I would just be dumbfounded. He just took action too fast for me, and I literally had no idea how to solve the problems that fast. My mind has to philosophize for a while and then it will think of a lot of solutions for a problem, including how to make solve a problem. Both of the ESTP types thought I was a useless dumb ass because I would spend too much time contemplating over ways that we could solve a problem and not taking action. I didn't like working with them.

Too bad you can't describe the Ti in ESTP. To me, sometimes I doubt that JCF works on the ESTP. Or sometimes they just make me think of Se (activity in the world) with some detached moments of reflection that you may not have noticed but which have nothing to do with their activities.
 

The Great One

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Too bad you can't describe the Ti in ESTP. To me, sometimes I doubt that JCF works on the ESTP. Or sometimes they just make me think of Se (activity in the world) with some detached moments of reflection that you may not have noticed but which have nothing to do with their activities.

No, I can't describe it a little better if you want. It was like the Ti wasn't used but in the present moment. It wasn't used constantly and almost in a philosophical way like in the NTP types. It's sort of like the way the ESFP types use Fi.
 

Mal12345

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No, I can't describe it a little better if you want. It was like the Ti wasn't used but in the present moment. It wasn't used constantly and almost in a philosophical way like in the NTP types. It's sort of like the way the ESFP types use Fi.

We're getting somewhere. I wouldn't think it would be philosophical. Just a function to keep them from running all different directions.
 

The Great One

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We're getting somewhere. I wouldn't think it would be philosophical. Just a function to keep them from running all different directions.

I can tell you that his decisions were must faster than mine. Also, he didn't think about things before hand or afterwards either. For instance, I would foresee many company problems that needed to be solved and I would constantly pitch ideas to him. He would always get annoyed at the fact that I was pitching him ideas before we actually had to solve the problems. His mind set was like, "Party hard, screw hot chicks, have fun, make money, don't worry about the future....then once the problem came up he would just go into action mode and solve the problems in a ridiculously fast-paced manner." I was blown away by how he could do this. I don't think I could do this, if my life depended on it.
 

Mal12345

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I can tell you that his decisions were must faster than mine. Also, he didn't think about things before hand or afterwards either. For instance, I would foresee many company problems that needed to be solved and I would constantly pitch ideas to him. He would always get annoyed at the fact that I was pitching him ideas before we actually had to solve the problems. His mind set was like, "Party hard, screw hot chicks, have fun, make money, don't worry about the future....then once the problem came up he would just go into action mode and solve the problems in a ridiculously fast-paced manner." I was blown away by how he could do this. I don't think I could do this, if my life depended on it.

I would suggest that his method for solving the problem was to quickly remove the obstacle in the way of having more fun and living in the moment.
 

The Great One

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I would suggest that his method for solving the problem was to quickly remove the obstacle in the way of having more fun and living in the moment.

Yeah that and like I said, when Se wants to, it goes into super action mode where it just takes action and doesn't stop "doing". Also, the main just couldn't think about the future to save his life. I don't think he could think of even a week ahead.
 

The Great One

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[MENTION=13589]Mal+[/MENTION]

I actually think that I am better at cracking the code of systems and improving them than creating them.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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Hey Doc,

Either my memory is going or I missed out on your original posting of that video here. Probably the former. One thing that always comes up lacking in these kinds of analyses is the emotional aspect of the INTP thought-process. This might include the ISTP's, where the ISTP is into concrete systems and the INTP is into intellectual systems. But to me there is a certain beauty to systems, most particularly the mathematical. The idea of "Analysis" misses half, and perhaps the most important, part of it. Comprehension of systems is more immediate than analysis, and it is accompanied by an immediate experience of truth that can sometimes be overwhelmingly emotional. Analysis is emphasized over synthesis, but this is understandable as synthesis is harder to describe. I agree that analysis is an objective process, and truth has objective content; moreover, I agree that objectivity is absolutely desirable. However, the manner of arriving at objective truth is not analytical, it is synthetic; it is more than the sum of its parts. The truth behind this mysterious process of obtaining truth is partially emotional. I wouldn't say that emotion drives this process so much as accompanies and even rewards it. And despite the idea that objectivity is the goal, there is a certain subjectivity that goes into the process. This is the point of indefinable mystery that is not what some would call Ni but is instead the basis for all that is Ti.

I don't think it's an emotional thing, at least how you describe it above. There can be an immediate sense of satisfaction. Which, can be worth it but it isn't dwelled upon or delved into. ( at least for myself).
 

Mal12345

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I don't think it's an emotional thing, at least how you describe it above. There can be an immediate sense of satisfaction. Which, can be worth it but it isn't dwelled upon or delved into. ( at least for myself).

I'm pointing away from the idea of pure intellect, because Ti doesn't mean "floating brain" or "no emotional investment." Satisfaction works for that too. There are also abstract feelings.
 

The Great One

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Just curious, [MENTION=5356]Speed Gavroche[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION] how do you use Ti? I want to see how Ti manifests itself in the ESTP?
 

Mal12345

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Just curious, [MENTION=5356]Speed Gavroche[/MENTION] and [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION] how do you use Ti? I want to see how Ti manifests itself in the ESTP?

I came back here to point out that PersonalityPages describes the Ti in ESTP as, "they make decisions based on facts and logic." At least that is explained by the logic part. But the person I was talking to about this speaks as if these ESTPs (his old bosses) are just a bundle of mindless energy dreaming about fast cars and faster women. But I would suggest that he hasn't been close enough to them to gain more than a superficial idea.

In my lifetime I have been close enough to two ESTPs to know that they do ponder things while also making decisions based on logic. They don't make decisions based off their gonads or their feelings. One example: "I didn't have sex with him while we were dating because I didn't want children yet." This was told to me by an ESTP female who is extremely energetic in behavior and often says the first thing that crosses her mind. But she has a logical impulse-control mechanism that prevents her from making mistakes of an impulsive kind, as do people who follow the desires of their gonads. She also had a habit of asking a lot of "why" questions, some of them I had to deal with, and it was obvious that she put a great deal of thought into things that she wanted answers to. But they mostly involved practical issues of a general nature. Or she would start a sentence with "Sometimes I wonder..."

Years before, when I was in my later teens, I had an ESTP friend who was more impulsive and angry in character. But he too would sometimes come up to me and ask questions out of curiosity, such as "Why do people always...?"

I just think that the closer one gets to such people, and gains their trust (which is hard won), the more the auxiliary function becomes evident.
 

The Great One

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I came back here to point out that PersonalityPages describes the Ti in ESTP as, "they make decisions based on facts and logic." At least that is explained by the logic part. But the person I was talking to about this speaks as if these ESTPs (his old bosses) are just a bundle of mindless energy dreaming about fast cars and faster women. But I would suggest that he hasn't been close enough to them to gain more than a superficial idea.

In my lifetime I have been close enough to two ESTPs to know that they do ponder things while also making decisions based on logic. They don't make decisions based off their gonads or their feelings. One example: "I didn't have sex with him while we were dating because I didn't want children yet." This was told to me by an ESTP female who is extremely energetic in behavior and often says the first thing that crosses her mind. But she has a logical impulse-control mechanism that prevents her from making mistakes of an impulsive kind, as do people who follow the desires of their gonads. She also had a habit of asking a lot of "why" questions, some of them I had to deal with, and it was obvious that she put a great deal of thought into things that she wanted answers to. But they mostly involved practical issues of a general nature. Or she would start a sentence with "Sometimes I wonder..."

Years before, when I was in my later teens, I had an ESTP friend who was more impulsive and angry in character. But he too would sometimes come up to me and ask questions out of curiosity, such as "Why do people always...?"

I just think that the closer one gets to such people, and gains their trust (which is hard won), the more the auxiliary function becomes evident.

Listen I would love to have done a further analysis as to how he used Ti but he wouldn't talk about himself ever. It was hell to every get him to chat about anything personal.
 

Mal12345

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Listen I would love to have done a further analysis as to how he used Ti but he wouldn't talk about himself ever. It was hell to every get him to chat about anything personal.

I wrote, "They don't make decisions based off their gonads or their feelings." That was a very generalized. It depends on the amount of impulse control they have.

But I say your difficulty had to do with the level of personal trust granted to you.

I have a bazillion ESTP stories based not on glancing from afar but from actually hanging with these types.
 

The Great One

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I wrote, "They don't make decisions based off their gonads or their feelings." That was a very generalized. It depends on the amount of impulse control they have.

But I say your difficulty had to do with the level of personal trust granted to you.

I have a bazillion ESTP stories based not on glancing from afar but from actually hanging with these types.

I used to live with the dude and work with the dude for God's sake. Oh, this continued for a year
 

Mal12345

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I used to live with the dude and work with the dude for God's sake. Oh, this continued for a year

I thought there was more than one ESTP in your past? But I'm talking about friendship, "eliciting personal trust" as I said. Not living and working with.
 

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Ti is deliberatly infinite, although processes and ideas can be put at a hold, and temporary conclusions may be reached, Ti will never put a stamp on a process or idea and be done with it. Ti will often go back and forth different thinking processes, often revising their previous temporary conclusions. Ti is quite skilled at taking apart even the toughest of problems, and it most likely to achieve the best possible understanding of them, transcending set requirements, but can have problems with finalizing that process. Ti is the ultimate beta tester.

Te is deliberatly finite, it will focus on completion and results, getting processes and ideas out of the way in order for it to engage new ones. Te can be forceful in pushing the envelop when it comes to reaching conclusions, but is skilled enough for it to be acceptably accurate to whatever standards are set to be met.

Ti leaves smudges, Te leaves marks.
 

The Great One

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Ti is deliberatly infinite, although processes and ideas can be put at a hold, and temporary conclusions may be reached, Ti will never put a stamp on a process or idea and be done with it. Ti will often go back and forth different thinking processes, often revising their previous temporary conclusions. Ti is quite skilled at taking apart even the toughest of problems, and it most likely to achieve the best possible understanding of them, transcending set requirements, but can have problems with finalizing that process. Ti is the ultimate beta tester.

Te is deliberatly finite, it will focus on completion and results, getting processes and ideas out of the way in order for it to engage new ones. Te can be forceful in pushing the envelop when it comes to reaching conclusions, but is skilled enough for it to be acceptably accurate to whatever standards are set to be met.

Ti leaves smudges, Te leaves marks.

Thank you for that.
 

RaptorWizard

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Ti seeks to fit all the components of the engine into the blueprint of Creation to form a single and significant whole, ever expanding in grandeur as new information presents itself from which we can build to.
 

JocktheMotie

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What aspect of that demonstrated introverted thinking? How he was getting philosophical with everything or because he took the vehicle apart, broke it into pieces, and put it back together again?

You've got Ti, you should be able to figure it... oh.
 
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