How to practice engaging Ni

[Doctorjuice]

Long-term planning. Devising really complex long-term plans, maybe writing them out. Try making a flow-chart of the plan. Once you've finished writing out the plan come up with another one (You don't actually have to do the plans, just come up with them). Try to be innovative with the plan maybe? In coming up with a plan first come up with a problem or a unique, innovative goal. Maybe certain puzzles require you to have an epiphany moment, similar to Ni? I don't know. But I do think long-term planning would be a good exercise in Ni.

 

[INTP]

Long-term planning. Devising really complex long-term plans, maybe writing them out. Try making a flow-chart of the plan. Once you've finished writing out the plan come up with another one (You don't actually have to do the plans, just come up with them). Try to be innovative with the plan maybe? In coming up with a plan first come up with a problem or a unique, innovative goal. Maybe certain puzzles require you to have an epiphany moment, similar to Ni? I don't know. But I do think long-term planning would be a good exercise in Ni.

the problem with this is that Ni is perception, planning is not perceiving, its an combination of different functions. in order to plan, you need to define what things are(T), which is worth more doing than another thing(F), to look at possibilities and connect the dots between things(N) and to see what actually is(S). it being long term or short term doesent change this. nothing of what you said has to do with Ni more than any other functions

 

[garbage]

Thank you!!

I'll search the internets for bits and pieces from the Exegesis. I know I've seen them floating around.

Ooh, look what I found!

To experience Introverted Intuition:
• As you come across any sign (e.g. an advertisement, a sentence, a logo, a choice of color for a restaurant's decor, even a non-man-made sign like a cloud), say to yourself, "So I'm supposed to think ______ but really this is just ______" and fill in the blanks. This creates conscious awareness of the assumed interpretations of things, and distances you from them. For example, if you see a restaurant sign with very ornate, curly characters in thin white strokes on a black background, say, "So I'm supposed to think this is a posh place for high-class people, but what I really see is just a slab of plastic with black paint on it, minus some curlicues where the white shows through." If you see a sign on a door inside the restaurant, that says "MEN", say, "So I'm supposed to think there's a bathroom behind that door, and it's only socially appropriate for men to use it, but really it's just a piece of wood with some marks on it." You must name the thing you're supposed to think in words, and describe the object in words; no mere pointing or saying "like that" is allowed. A feeling of smugness may set in at first. Keep going, until it becomes a feeling of freedom.

Well, it's tangentially related to practicing Ni, which is itself tangentially related to the base theory.

 

[Doctorjuice]

the problem with this is that Ni is perception, planning is not perceiving, its an combination of different functions. in order to plan, you need to define what things are(T), which is worth more doing than another thing(F), to look at possibilities and connect the dots between things(N) and to see what actually is(S). it being long term or short term doesent change this. nothing of what you said has to do with Ni more than any other functions

I disagree. Part of Ni is envisioning the future, coming up with a vision, or seeing how things will play out long-term.

 

[INTP]

Part of Ni is envisioning the future, coming up with a vision, or seeing how things will play out long-term.

according to who?

 

[Doctorjuice]

according to who?

Well some of this comes from my direct experience with Ni (which is hugely important in understanding MBTI, observation through direct experience, IMO). Think about INTJs and INFJs. They're extremely good at thinking long-term and they often have a vision that they are working towards.

But I'm sure if you look up definitions of Ni, parts of them include "working towards a vision" or "coming up with a vision" or "envisioning a certain future." Here's some:

Introverted iNtuiting involves synthesizing the seemingly paradoxical or contradictory, which takes understanding to a new level.

Using this process, we can have moments when completely new, unimagined realizations come to us.




A disengagement from interactions in the room occurs, followed by a sudden "Aha!" or "That's it!" The sense of the future and the realizations that come from introverted iNtuiting have a sureness and an imperative quality that seem to demand action and help us stay focused on fulfilling our vision or dream of how things will be in the future.

Using this process, we might rely on a focal device or symbolic action to predict, enlighten, or transform.

We could find ourselves laying out how the future will unfold based on unseen trends and telling signs.

This process can involve working out complex concepts or systems of thinking or conceiving of symbolic or novel ways to understand things that are universal.

It can lead to creating transcendent experiences or solutions.
From: http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/Cognitive-Functions/Introverted-iNtuiting.cfm

Ni’s continually think about the future, what it may hold, and what they are currently doing

http://www.famoustype.com/Ni.htm

Ni is often described as the long-term system building function
From: http://personalitycafe.com/articles/84275-cognitive-function-ne-vs-ni.html

Also, I want to make clear that the qualities I mentioned are just a part of what Ni is. The point of my exercise was not so much to learn how to plan (which can overlap with Te and other functions) but to be able to come up with and envision a future, to think long-term.

 

[INTP]

Well some of this comes from my direct experience with Ni (which is hugely important in understanding MBTI, observation through direct experience, IMO). Think about INTJs and INFJs. They're extremely good at thinking long-term and they often have a vision that they are working towards.

But I'm sure if you look up definitions of Ni, parts of them include "working towards a vision" or "coming up with a vision" or "envisioning a certain future." Here's some:







Also, I want to make clear that the qualities I mentioned are just a part of what Ni is. The point of my exercise was not so much to learn how to plan (which can overlap with Te and other functions) but to be able to come up with and envision a future, to think long-term.

there are not jungian cognitive functions, these are something else, which are called jungian for some reason. its also funny that they say that this is MBTI, which it is not. MBTI only consists of 4 functions, these guys use 8 function model, which is neither jungian or MBTI. if you use 4 functions and say that Ni envisions future, that would mean that only types that use Ni are able to do that.

what these guys are doing is taking aspects of type and thinking that they are the functions, when in fact they are mostly combination of functions that some type uses frequently, because he prefers those functions. like with this Ni envisioning future, its not that Ni does it, its just that types with preference for Ni over Ne or S are more likely to envision the future. this is because of the nature of N, its tendency to imagine future possibilities, by filling in what is not seen, this is something that is evident in both Ni and Ne, therefore its not Ni that envisions the future, but is just N in general that imagines possibilities. now its true that Ni types tend to think of the future more rationally, thats because Ni is working with judging functions and Se, while Ne comes up with possibilities more randomly and according to external world, not according to internalized rational data.

everyone, be it Ni user or not are able to come up with visions and working towards them, therefore its not Ni that does this, its multiple functions at work, N only perceives, its a perceiving function, it does not plan, it does not judge whether some future possibility is plausible or not. intuition is a perception by intermediate links and you only get the results of that whole chain of associations to your conscious mind, thus it is an perception via unconscious. Ni sets the links between things according to how it fits his own subjective view on things. Ne sets the links according to objective factor, how things have been before and what seems plausible according to the things that have been before.

its this vision thing that some people most likely confused with Ni envisioning future. do note that this is about Ni dominant type, not Ni function

 

[INTP]

INTP

If Ni does not possess a strength or quality of long-term system building (and the other qualities I mentioned) then why are these qualities not nearly as pronounced in say, SFJ types (or any of the other types for that matter)? Take an ISTJ and an INTJ. The only difference in their functions is the Si and the Ni. INTJs are better at long-term thinking and system-building therefore Ni lends itself more towards long-term thinking and system building than Si. Agreed?

imagining possibilities is essential for planning, N does the possibilities thing, its not Ni or Ne, its N, it happens no matter whether the libido is moving towards the objective of subjective, the main thing is that it does move according to principles of intuition.

i didnt say that Ni users arent good at that, i said that its not Ni alone that does it -> its not Ni, but its a combination of functions. again, there are judging and perceiving functions, judging functions determine whether something is plausible or not, defines things, determines if something is right or wrong etc etc. perceiving functions only perceive, but does not judge. in order to come up with plan, you need both perception and judging, you need to see what things are(s), what those things actualy are/analyze them(t), determine which is more important(f) and see what sort of possibilities they have.

btw i know two ISFJs and one INTJ in real life, both ISFJs have built better long term system for their lives, going through schools, getting a career with good working experiences, one is married and pregnant etc etc. INTJ dropped out of school, works in a supermarket and thinks that he might go study math..

 

[Doctorjuice]

imagining possibilities is essential for planning, N does the possibilities thing, its not Ni or Ne, its N, it happens no matter whether the libido is moving towards the objective of subjective, the main thing is that it does move according to principles of intuition.

Ne is much more of a burst of creativity and then moving onto the next new idea, Ni takes an idea and really goes all out with it working with it long-term. I would definitely say Ni lends itself more towards long-term planning than Ne.

i didnt say that Ni users arent good at that, i said that its not Ni alone that does it -> its not Ni, but its a combination of functions. again, there are judging and perceiving functions, judging functions determine whether something is plausible or not, defines things, determines if something is right or wrong etc etc. perceiving functions only perceive, but does not judge. in order to come up with plan, you need both perception and judging, you need to see what things are(s), what those things actualy are/analyze them(t), determine which is more important(f) and see what sort of possibilities they have.

Right, I understand, you are arguing that it is a combination of functions that contributes to planning (and I agree with that). I was trying to point out that Ni lends itself more towards long-term planning and system-building, working towards a vision. I was trying to show this by isolating Ni and showing the difference with Si.

btw i know two ISFJs and one INTJ in real life, both ISFJs have built better long term system for their lives, going through schools, getting a career with good working experiences, one is married and pregnant etc etc. INTJ dropped out of school, works in a supermarket and thinks that he might go study math..

One particular does not make the general. Also, many of the long-term plans that SJs make for their life are simple and conventional, involving things that are mostly common knowledge, dealing with logistics, and thus not really requiring much long-term thought. Trying to realize an innovative vision is something that requires much greater long-term thinking skills.

 

[INTP]

Ne is much more a burst of creativity and then moving onto the next new idea, Ni takes an idea and really goes all out with it working with it long-term. I would definitely say Ni lends itself more towards long-term planning than Ne.

Ti can do that sort of working with long term planning thing just as well. take my ENTP friend as an example, he started developing this speech recognition thing like 4 years ago and is still developing it.

this bursts of creativity in Ne vs more stable creating in Ni is basically just about the fact that external world keeps on bombarding stuff in your face and Ne tries to grasp all of that, see patterns and missing links in them to create possibilities. Ni users on the other hand perceive external world according to what is(Se), so their unconscious mind isnt constantly bombarding them with possibilities in external world, but they are more concentrated on the possibilities on internalized/processed info, the subjective factor.

Right, I understand, you are arguing that it is a combination of functions that contributes to planning (and I agree with that). I was trying to point out that Ni lends itself more towards long-term planning and system-building, working towards a vision. I was trying to show this by isolating Ni and showing the difference with Si.

but you didnt isolate Ni, you isolated something else, with a hint of N. i know what the differences between Ni and Si are quite well, only reason you need to show those to me is to prove that you know it too, you didnt success very well. you cant just cut type into 4(or 8) parts and think that those are the functions. functions are actually very simple things, its the combination of the functions that gives the complexity of type. this being said, if you just cut type into parts and think those are the functions, you will get a twisted view of the functions, as those parts you think are functions, contain things that come from interactions between functions, not the functions themselves. this is where you failed on this, this is where the 8 function model fails and this is where other people often(including those who wrote those function descriptions you linked) fail.

One particular does not make the general.

yea but thats the whole point, people are individuals, and individuals have this sort of differences, its stupid to try to make everything into stereotypes. this whole typology thing is how people use their brains, not how they act or what decisions they make. you know there are other things in the human mind than just the functions. functions are just a very small aspect of the mind and it seems like you(and many others) are trying to put too much weight on the functions, which is most likely due to unawareness to other stuff in psychology.

 

[Doctorjuice]

[MENTION=7595]INTP[/MENTION]

Alright well, my opinion still stands. I'm just going to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[INTP]

[MENTION=7595]INTP[/MENTION]

Alright well, my opinion still stands. I'm just going to agree to disagree on this one.

okay. but just out of curiosity. how well have you studied typology from jungian point of view and other things that relate to typology somehow, like complexes, archetypes, jungian model of the psyche, self-regulation of the psyche, individuation, differentiation etc etc? if you dont have equally good understanding about it from that point of view, how can you make an judgment about the superiority of your neo-jungian self help typology?

 

[Doctorjuice]

okay. but just out of curiosity. how well have you studied typology from jungian point of view and other things that relate to typology somehow, like complexes, archetypes, jungian model of the psyche, self-regulation of the psyche, individuation, differentiation etc etc? if you dont have equally good understanding about it from that point of view, how can you make an judgment about the superiority of your neo-jungian self help typology?

I've read his main works.

And really? Labeling my judgements as neo-jungian self help typology? Grow up.

 

[INTP]

I've read his main works.

And really? Labeling my judgements as neo-jungian self help typology? Grow up.

lol, mbti, lenores work etc is neo-jungian typology and is for self help..

you know, you can read one book from jung 10 times and learn something new every time

 

[21%]

but the thing is that the functions are just N S T F and I/E of a function just determines whether you see the subjective(in line with deductions or other stuff that you constructed in your head) or objective aspect(in line with the external world or things learned from the external world without making any conclusions/deductions about them) of a function as more trusted one. thus use it as a starting point for a thought, compare the opposite(of subjective/objective) to it and lead back to modify the the preferred attitude if needed. this is why jung usually talked just about N or T when defining the functions, definitions are pretty much the same on the core level, whether you prefer introverted or extraverted attitude of a function, only real difference is whether you see subjective or objective as the more trusted one. naturally the orientation of a function gives some peculiarities to the type, but mostly just when the function is dominant.

also in jungs view the deal with the undifferentiated/undeveloped functions is that they lack orientation(they dont see objective or subjective aspect as more trusted one), because they arent in conscious control, thus they arent directed to either way, but simply follow/lead other functions in a chain. undifferentiated thinking would be an afterthought of something.

once you start to develop the function, your ego will start to prefer one subjective or objective aspect of it over another and start to prefer to direct your psyche according to the preferred one, that doesent mean that you dont see the opposite, it simply means that you dont prefer to make decisions according to it or blindly trust the perceptions by it and because this Ni vs Ne is just about preferring one aspect of the function over another, you cant have both Ni and Ne at the same time.

I agree with the view that there are two perceiving functions and two judging functions, and each has their own orientation (internal or external). But I can't help but feel that you can 'develop' your 'unused' orientation to become a more complete individual.

But I kinda believe that if that really happens for all the functions, you are sort of consciously deconstructing the ego and that will lead to nirvana or something

 

[527468]

Ni is often claimed in a basic sense to orient people to making decisions with little information, and aids the function of living a structured EJ lifestyle. This is just a documented manifestation of the function, and it's a one-way ticket. So in other words, much that I think if you're a P who comes into living a J lifestyle or have grown up that way from the start, it won't really effect your core cognition as an Ne type. Just will effect how you are used to living. Thus, tapping into introversion is really the way to explore Ni, because it doesn't bow to any structure. It's a function dependent on the self only. This is my view of all the functions really, but seems to ring truer for introverted functions.

Most importantly terms like Ni and Ne from my experience are just indistinct categories we use to separate personalities, and we each assign something unique to ourselves and look for similar people. Putting a billion people into 16 categories more or less. The closest I can come is one questioning how to become more introverted, like how an introverted ENFP is much like an INFJ in that they wield the same strengths, just in opposite spectrums. They are both intuitive types ultimately and have the most commonality within themselves. The question is rather not how to become more Ni, it's fairly easy for an intuitive to use Ni or Ne setting your mind to that style of information for a moment in time, but rather why you chose to be Ne instead and come to terms with who you want to be, already decided by your true terminal self.

So if you can be intuitive in your extraverted lifestyle, try being intuitive in your introverted lifestyle. The more extraverted you are the more difficult you will find it.

 

[UniqueMixture]

Meditate of course. Also learn to superimpose your "mind's eye" on the world you actually see like a HUD. Do the latter in a way so that there is no conflict between what you see and what "is actually" there.

 

[INTP]

I agree with the view that there are two perceiving functions and two judging functions, and each has their own orientation (internal or external). But I can't help but feel that you can 'develop' your 'unused' orientation to become a more complete individual.

But I kinda believe that if that really happens for all the functions, you are sort of consciously deconstructing the ego and that will lead to nirvana or something

i have quite opposite view on function development. imo undeveloped/undifferentiated functions work unconsciously(arent consciously directed) and when they arent consciously directed, they lack orientation and work sort of as slaves to developed functions.
but this view comes from how unconscious mind works, i think the unconscious mind works with themes, while conscious mind works in concrete concepts. these themes are formed from unconscious associations around the theme that the unconscious mind works with, while the concrete concepts are formed from consciously recognized things that make up the concept.
so when a function that works unconsciously works with the theme(or complexes in other words), they lack orientation, because the thing that its working with is not consciously recognized either as external or internal and it works with things that are mixture of unconscious associations.
i should mention that the thing with developed functions is that its an conscious process(or at least developed through lots of conscious processing), or at least specialized process, where it has done the same thing consciously so many times that it works automatically. even tho this automatic process is not conscious, its not what is meant as unconscious in psychoanalysis or analytical psychology, so its not equivalent to jungian shadow or freudian unconscious. both of those theories lack this concept of automatized functions of mind(not talking of cognitive functions, but i think it applies to them also in many cases), which are evident in todays psychology.

but when functions do work consciously, even if its one of those four functions that you suck at, then they do have an orientation.

however i think inferior makes an exception with these undeveloped functions lacking orientation. thats because orientation of dominant function is the one that ego prefers and opposite it wants to repress. this repressed content goes into shadow and shadow manifests itself through inferior. i think while ego is the central operating system in the consciousness, shadow operates the unconscious mind in similar ways and has its opposite preferences to ego(this is why inferior for INTP is Fe, its the repressed judging function, which also has the repressed attitude).

but im just rambling here and most likely arent making much sense