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Physiognomy Project: Visually Reading Cognitive Configuration

1487610420

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[MENTION=1180]whatever[/MENTION] Heh, hey, that's not how it is.
Just trying to address everyone, 's all.

But, regarding what you said, I actually doubt that. The reality is we don't have full control over our face, and it's precisely because of this that we're able to read people's facial expressions to discern their type. As the brain thinks, signals manifest naturally in the face as a direct byproduct of the specific processing the brain is undertaking. So when you are consulting memory, your face does specific things. When you consult your internal compass, other signals are emitted. And the sixteen types have sixteen distinct signatures of facial manifestation which cannot be faked.

@ bold: do you have any data to back that up?

And how do you account for induced/learned deviations from whatever one could say the norm to be, e.g. environment, upbringing, education, et cetera ad infinitum ? :dry:
:einstein2:
 
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Anew Leaf

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I find it humorous that there has been a 0 correlation between the type the poster has declared for themselves and how they are being typed here.
 

Thalassa

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I find it humorous that there has been a 0 correlation between the type the poster has declared for themselves and how they are being typed here.

Actually she said I was correctly typed.

And you know what? The first time ISFP was suggested was when someone saw that video.

And then JTG is pretty sure of it, knowing me better than anyone attending this forum.
 
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Anew Leaf

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Actually she said I was correctly typed.

And you know what? The first time ISFP was suggested was when someone saw that video.

And then JTG is pretty sure of it, knowing me better than anyone attending this forum.

Well, I suppose one out of hundred isn't bad.
 

Auburn

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@ bold: do you have any data to back that up?

And how do you account for induced/learned deviations from whatever one could say the norm to be, e.g. environment, upbringing, education, et cetera ad infinitum ? :dry:
:einstein2:

Ah. At last. I was wondering when I'd get some opposition..

The template of signatures was first made from people who are not actors or trained in any form of facial control. Mostly they were extracted from people I/we had firsthand exposure to; people who we know personally and psychically - people whose type we're sure of. These closest to us were observed, then we noted when and why their face manifested certain expressions - depending on what mental process they were engaging at that exact time. When doing memory recall, certain things were noticed, and when articulating, others. When explaining an ethical decision, others still. And the template expanded.

And as we/I have applied that template outside of them to those who have had education in acting/etc I have seen that off-stage even actors default to their natural facial manifestations. There is one function that is most prone to facial control, however: that being Fe. Fe has the ability to manipulate the face to put on a charming or hostile presentation to others. But ironically, in its ability to control the face it also gives itself away. There are also more than just one cue we check for each function, and generally even if one is blurred by culture/environment the others will still come through.

But for the slight possibility of a habit obstructing the read, this danger is dramatically reduced when the interviewee is asked challenging questions. When engaged in a conversation that forces a person to dig deep into their thoughts/memories and articulate all at once, it is near impossible to also keep control over your face. It is like trying to speak two languages at the same time, it doesn't work.

For instance, if you are an Ne+Si user (and those of you who are can try this out) and you try to not deflect/divert your eyes as you do intense memory recall or brainstorming, you'll find that your ability to think will dramatically lower, if not be entirely unable to think. For Ne/Si, the eyes need to be left loose/free to roam about for the mind to properly cross-contextualize imaginations with information.

For Se+Ni users, the opposite is true. Their eyes need to be steady/focused in order to process. If they're asked a very challenging question, like describing a place in exact detail, while their eyes spastically look everywhere they will have a hard time coming up with an answer. This would be no problem for Ne+Si users.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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[MENTION=5746]Auburn[/MENTION]

[YOUTUBE="2bpWoSYiHeE"].[/YOUTUBE]
 
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011235813

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I'm with Saturned on this one; I find it hard to believe that so many people would have mistyped themselves. I still want to upload a video at some point though - ze curiosity is killing me!
 

Auburn

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[MENTION=5746]Auburn[/MENTION]

Video
Hi there. Nice to meet you.
It took me a while to figure out where the other voice was coming from! Thanks for using those questions though, they really helped make things easy/clear. I suspect you're Si(Fe)

You have a healthy personality too. Your use of Fe is free and you appear to be accepting of it (that is not always the case for males especially). Your use of Si is also well-combined with your use of Ne, creating a fair flow of information.

You display the Si Searching Scowl, Deflecting as well as Inertial Force. Your face and smile is warming and your articulation has the meticulous quality of Ti. Your Ne eyes freely look around the environment when brainstorming and have a general looseness to them; which also courses through the rest of your body.

[MENTION=13147]senza_tema[/MENTION] - Heh, by this point it probably seems like I'm pulling these types out of the air, but the reality is that the MBTI test is ridiculously poor at discerning people's type. And a self-analysis based on reading the profiles is only marginally better, due to the structure of the profiles.

We've dedicated a lot of time to correcting the errors of the MBTI (and are still doing), and we are hoping to create a better written test, although it would only be there as a soft-estimate. Video-reading would still remain a much more accurate option, as the body says so much more than what a questionnaire could gauge. It is simply a matter of interpreting the language the body is emitting. :)

[MENTION=8031]Ginkgo[/MENTION] - I haven't forgotten you, don't worry.
 
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Betty Blue

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Hi there. From this video you appear to also be: Te(Si): ESTJ

You are definitely a discernment (T/F) lead, with your mind primarily concerned about the logical and ethical arrangement of the world and one's individual self. Information is a tool to those ends, and for you that comes from Si+Ne, I think.

The Si+Ne duality works as a dialogue between stored information and the manipulation of that information into new forms that can better serve the purpose of truth-forming. Truth: both morally and logically.


Wouldn't the bolded be Fi? Also WAT? Haha, wow... if your descritpions of the types are completely different to the MBTI types and ESTJ more closely resembles ENFP (in mbti terms) then yeah i'll give you ESTJ. Damn i wish i was more ESTJ-ish at times... they get so much done.
 

KDude

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Maybe he's on to something. I remember the last guy who came in here with another "physical" typology theory, and typed me ITP (which I didn't consider then). And some of us argued with him to the point that he left the site. It pissed me off because he was insistent about it, and didn't know anything about me.. Yet here I am now, typing ISTP.

It's no substitute for coming to your own conclusions though. One major fault of socionics VI to me is not the idea itself, but that it's practitioners get lazy. They have no rationale for why they type things other than the visual methods, or don't offer a secondary arguments about function usage to prove it.
 

miss fortune

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Maybe he's on to something. I remember the last guy who came in here with another "physical" typology theory, and typed me ITP (which I didn't consider then). And some of us argued with him to the point that he left the site. It pissed me off because he was insistent about it, and didn't know anything about me.. Yet here I am now, typing ISTP.

Yeah, well the last person here thought that I was an ENXJ, so no correlation there! :laugh:

Even more fun? Have other people come up with input on what you're like... A different type yet! :holy: what an adventure!
 

Kurt.Is.God

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Maybe he's on to something. I remember the last guy who came in here with another "physical" typology theory, and typed me ITP (which I didn't consider then). And some of us argued with him to the point that he left the site. It pissed me off because he was insistent about it, and didn't know anything about me.. Yet here I am now, typing ISTP.

Typing one person correctly isn't enough to convince me when the theory he claims it's based on makes no sense.
 

Auburn

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Wouldn't the bolded be Fi? Also WAT? Haha, wow... if your descritpions of the types are completely different to the MBTI types and ESTJ more closely resembles ENFP (in mbti terms) then yeah i'll give you ESTJ. Damn i wish i was more ESTJ-ish at times... they get so much done.

Well, the Te(SiNe)Fi type would be more cognitively similar to Fi(NeSi)Te. But this is referring to the way they experience their reality and identity. As far as manifestation they'd still be quite dissimilar.

Perhaps one of my colleagues can give you a second opinion. Though the functions are definitely correct. :)
It's also not uncommon for Te(Si) to be in touch with their Ne. Take for instance Lady Gaga, Miley Cyrus and Madonna. Or the vast Avatar universe that emerged from James Cameron's mind, all of which are also Te(Si).

Having said that, you do have a lot of Ne Momentum. But it is a momentum that does not overtake the body with it's fluidity. Instead it bubbles under the more rigid/directive frame of your Te. An Ne dominant experiences a visceral flow of thoughts and navigates through reality very much the way a breeze navigates itself.

I hope that explains a bit. Of course, you're free to doubt, but I do believe if you give it a bit more thought you might come to see it. But don't use the profiles, look instead more at the cognitive functions and how they operate psychically. How they manifest (i.e. organized/planned) habits in reality, is secondary.
 

cascadeco

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Hello! Oh my, lots of reads. This is awesome.
You are definitely Ne(Fi) : ENFP.
I'm also quite confident in this read.


Ne(Fi) are primarily data-collectors, data-manipulators and synthesizers. Most of the time this happens intuitively, as their minds are constantly in a stream-of-consciousness and viewing the environment constantly in the abstract: every object eludes to a different thing. Because Ne is connected to Si, they are also often trivia kings/queens. The more facts they know the easier it is for them to surf through them and draw connections.

It is also a misconception that the are "extroverts". Ne is stimulus-oriented but is often able to satiate that need with it's own thoughts alone. Though, it'll still manifest a level of restlessness and natural energy in the body. The user may not enjoy talking with other people (using other people as stimuli) but will generally find another creative outlet to engage with and often be consumed with/by.

Well...that's a very surprising verdict, but I'm afraid I'd make a very sad version of an ENFP (I don't at all perceive, execute, or interact w/ what's around me the same as ENxP's I know of; I mean, my life story is very un-ENxP) .. but thanks for checking the video out!
 
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garbage

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Well, I suppose one out of hundred isn't bad.
Granted, Auburn and I also agreed with my assessment of strong Judging + Ne, with strong Articulation and strong Ne-associated traits. Je + Ne (plus some Ni) describe me pretty well inward and, apparently, outward as well.

The only problem is that the way the JCF system lays out the functions into types and the way we subsequently tie those types to behaviors and characteristics sucks. In order to reconcile Je > Ne, I'd be forced to type myself as an ESxJ. I'm not against it, of course, but the traditional characteristics of that type don't describe me well at all.

Perhaps if we looked at the types differently, the typings would make more sense.
 
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Anew Leaf

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Granted, Auburn and I also agreed with my assessment of strong Judging + Ne, with strong Articulation and strong Ne-associated traits. Je + Ne (plus some Ni) describe me pretty well inward and, apparently, outward as well.

The only problem is that the way the JCF system lays out the functions into types and the way we subsequently tie those types to behaviors and characteristics sucks. In order to reconcile Je > Ne, I'd be forced to type myself as an ESxJ. I'm not against it, of course, but the traditional characteristics of that type don't describe me well at all.

Perhaps if we looked at the types differently, the typings would make more sense.

Yes, the two people that this has sort of worked for find it completely plausible. It reminds me of astrology.

I mean they typed [MENTION=9160]HelenOfTroy[/MENTION] as an ESTJ and [MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] as an ENFP. Two people that are thoughtful and knowledgable about the system. And what cracks me up the most is how easily words like "clearly" are being tossed around. "you are clearly x type.)

I have an inkling that there is a decent percentage of people who have typed themselves incorrectly for whatever reason, but these two people as small examples, Lolz no. or the fact that 90% of the people in this thread have supposedly typed themselves wrong? Not likely.
 

Auburn

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[MENTION=8031]Ginkgo[/MENTION] - Your psychological type is Se(Ti), roughly correlating to ESTP.
Hmm.. I'm not too sure about your type.

I think you may be a perception-lead. In this video it seems you were a bit low on energy, but your body still gave off the 'uneasy' signs that accompany Se momentum. Your eyes often zone-out into Ni, and your face remains deadpan for the majority of the video. There are some moments of Fe expressiveness but it is easily neutralized by Ti and your face cools back down.

A celebrity that kinda reminds me of you:
Sam Worthington: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXujTKIrUR0
 
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garbage

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Yes, the two people that this has sort of worked for find it completely plausible. It reminds me of astrology.

I mean they typed [MENTION=9160]HelenOfTroy[/MENTION] as an ESTJ and [MENTION=1206]cascadeco[/MENTION] as an ENFP. Two people that are thoughtful and knowledgable about the system. And what cracks me up the most is how easily words like "clearly" are being tossed around. "you are clearly x type.)

I have an inkling that there is a decent percentage of people who have typed themselves incorrectly for whatever reason, but these two people as small examples, Lolz no. or the fact that 90% of the people in this thread have supposedly typed themselves wrong? Not likely.
I'm just calling attention to another data point--I don't intend to say that this system is absolutely correct because it rang somewhat true for me. After all, as I say, Ne + Je makes sense for me; ESxJ absolutely does not.

I think that this has promise as a tool to dig into the roots of people via surface-level traits, but that it might very well fare better if either (a) it cut the string that tied it to JCF/MBTI, or (b) we all completely revised how we looked at types. One of these is easier to pull off than the other.

Hell, I personally don't think that JCF is in and of itself the right way to view typology, let alone any extension of it--but that's just me.
 
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