Signs of Ni

[Nicodemus]

I'm curious, do you think there is anything that an average INTP can do better than an average INTJ?

I think most Ps are better at relaxing than most Js.

 

[Zarathustra]

[MENTION=8413]Zarathustra[/MENTION]
I'm curious, do you think there is anything that an average INTP can do better than an average INTJ?

Seriously, tho: yes, of course.

I think each type has its relative strengths, and that includes INTPs.

I think plenty of what I've stated in this thread has pointed to that fact.

 

[Rasofy]

I think most Ps are better at relaxing than most Js.

Aww, that's flattering.

Seriously, tho: yes, of course.

I think each type has its relative strengths, and that includes INTPs.

I think plenty of what I've stated in this thread has pointed to that fact.

 

[Zarathustra]

:yim_rolling_on_the_

 

[Zarathustra]

 

[Mal12345]

Your just playa hatin'

And what about Z's sig? Not typism then? Just another "joke," right?

 

[Poki]

And if the switch is not wired correctly, it turns the light neither on nor off. So much for universal truths (a daft concept, by the way). I think both the INTJ and the INTP in the example understand 'turns the light on' as 'can turn the light on'.

Or if you hook the switch up to a TV. If its wired to the TV and your light turns on and off then you have serious problems.

 

[Poki]

And what about Z's sig? Not typism then? Just another "joke," right?

Did that come from Wildcat or Z? Just playing devils advocate.

 

[Zarathustra]

Well, logically, the INTP is wrong when he claims it is 'not true' that the switch turns the light on, because it does; that it also turns it off does not make the on-part wrong.

The INTP claims: "The switch turns the light on" is not true. But, "'The switch turns the light on' is not true" is false, therefore the INTP is wrong.

If the light is on then the switch does not turn the light on. Therefore that is not a universal truth in all situations. The switch turns the light on or off is more true. I still think its anal when the situation is so obvious as a light switch that the whole argument is just considered anal retentive. The INTP is more stuck on teaching universal truths based on whats said instead of what the other person understands. At the end of the day its all a matter of how far pulled into or out of the situation you are.

The thing is that an INTJ may disregard what was said as important and not even pay attention...hence not learn something outside of the current situation. While the INTP may not realize INTJs know everything that the INTP said and just sees them as anal retentive because there really is no reason as its already known and understood and at this point the arguing is over wording not understanding.

This was actually pretty good, too, Poki.

Of course, all INTP bashing is good, isn't it, z.

He wasn't INTP bashing.

He actually contradicted what an INTJ said, by providing a fuller Ti perspective.

And, aside from that, it was good because he offered a rather fair appraisal of the situation.

But you do make yourself look really foolish by not realizing that that's the reason I said those things.

Of all the things you could point to, for that to be where you "call me out" on INTP bashing is hilarious/absurd.

That's just your cognitive bias speaking.

I dont see how what I wrote is bashing.

That's just your cognitive bias speaking.

No, it's not really.

Well, in one sense it is.

It is me being objective (TeSe).

I'm sorry you have such difficulty in that regard.

ETA: Interestingly, though, what you're trying here is probably what I was pointing to with "Fe-shaming".

Of course, all INTP bashing is good, isn't it, z.

Your just playa hatin'

I feel like I'm being buffaloed here.

Dont trust your feelings, embrace your T

So are you still working on the divorce finalization stuff?

Yes. Long story. Will be finished within a month or 2. Just waiting on finalization paper work right now to be drawn up.

Your just playa hatin'

And what about Z's sig? Not typism then? Just another "joke," right?

Did that come from Wildcat or Z? Just playing devils advocate.

It's also completely unrelated to my evaluation of Poki's comment.

And, as such, as another Ti dom has basically been telling you, Mal: you're being irrational.

And, as such, once again, your behavior pretty much *reeks* of inferior Fe...

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...nality-matrices/28987-form-inferior-itps.html

 

[Patches]

Off-topic tangent removed. Stick to the Ni discussion.

 

[Coriolis]

INTJs are always changing the problem space, either by redefining the problem, or understanding that the problem is something else entirely. This goes along with what Uumlau wrote about staying current with changing reality.

This currently known version of reality is the key here. INTPs only accept one version of reality, but this version of reality is unknown. INTJs on the other hand claim to know the reality, even tho its just their version of the reality, not the real reality. Reality doesent change, only the perception of it does. The perception of reality isnt same as the reality, even tho INTJs see it as so and make the judgments(and the big picture based on them) based on the perception of reality and see it as the real reality.

This is the crux of the matter. It reminds me of the static vs. dynamic interpretation of Ti/Ne vs. Ni/Te that was discussed a few pages ago. INTJs (or anyone) can see that as a practical matter, reality is a constantly moving target: yesterday it rained, but today is sunny; my computer was fine for months but now won't boot; the boss promised me a raise, but then funding was cut. Solutions must take these changes of condition into account. INTPs on the other hand see a reality encompassing all possibilities at once: it can rain, or be sunny, or even snow or hail; my computer can fail in may other ways; organizational funding is governed by various influences, some of which are predictable.

INTP then might look for an all-encompassing solution that will covere every possibility. The problem is it might require too much time or money, or be too cumbersome ever to be implemented. INTJ will realize that a useful solution need not include all cases. We are contingency planners, so our solutions usually do include some built-in flexibility (we plan a picnic, and specify a rain date), but we probably are not going to cover all the possibilities that the INTP ideal solution will. We will come up with something that can actually be used, though.

In asking whether INTP or INTJ solutions are better, there is a third route: combining them. I work with a number of INTPs, and my SO is one as well. Sometimes it feels as though when we work together well, there is nothing we can't accomplish.

 

[Mia.]

In asking whether INTP or INTJ solutions are better, there is a third route: combining them. I work with a number of INTPs, and my SO is one as well. Sometimes it feels as though when we work together well, there is nothing we can't accomplish.

*Ding Ding Ding*

Mmhmm.

 

[Zarathustra]

It reminds me of the static vs. dynamic interpretation of Ti/Ne vs. Ni/Te that was discussed a few pages ago.

Another nitpick (getting enough evidence to start pondering on this one now): that was more about Ni/Se and Ne/Si, I think.

INTJs (or anyone) can see that as a practical matter, reality is a constantly moving target...

*feels the Si-users cringe at that sentence*

INTP then might look for an all-encompassing solution that will covere every possibility. The problem is it might require too much time or money, or be too cumbersome ever to be implemented. INTJ will realize that a useful solution need not include all cases. We are contingency planners, so our solutions usually do include some built-in flexibility (we plan a picnic, and specify a rain date), but we probably are not going to cover all the possibilities that the INTP ideal solution will. We will come up with something that can actually be used, though.

It's also impossible to actually come up with that all-encompassing solution.

It's futile.

I'm not saying that INTPs' efforts can't bear fruit -- they can.

But the belief that one can discover an all-encompassing theory of everything is ridiculous.

It's inherently doomed to fail.

The best one could do is delude themselves that their theory actually encompasses everything.

 

[Mal12345]

Another nitpick (getting enough evidence to start pondering on this one now): that was more about Ni/Se and Ne/Si, I think.



*feels the Si-users cringe at that sentence*



It's also impossible to actually come up with that all-encompassing solution.

It's futile.

I'm not saying that INTPs' efforts can't bear fruit -- they can.

But the belief that one can discover an all-encompassing theory of everything is ridiculous.

It's inherently doomed to fail.

The best one could do is delude themselves that their theory actually encompasses everything.

That is just more off-topic INTP bashing on a thread that's called "signs of Ni."

 

[Mia.]

That is just more off-topic INTP bashing on a thread that's called "signs of Ni."

Activity suspiciously resembling bashing has taken place, and every comment is subjective. However, comparison and contrast, even in areas of supposed weakness, are relevant to teasing apart the differences, mechanics, and teleology.

There's enough political correctness in the world shutting down honest discussion in the name of not offending anyone. Let's leave typology alone.

 

[Mal12345]

Activity suspiciously resembling bashing has taken place, and every comment is subjective. However, comparison and contrast, even in areas of supposed weakness, are relevant to teasing apart the differences, mechanics, and teleology.

There's enough political correctness in the world shutting down honest discussion in the name of not offending anyone. Let's leave typology alone.

Topical?

 

[Zarathustra]

That is just more off-topic INTP bashing on a thread that's called "signs of Ni."

*I feel another nitpick coming... it's usually by the third piece of evidence that I start seeing the similarities and differences... let's see... well, perhaps this is not a nitpick... or perhaps INTJ nitpicking is just different than INTPs... I seem to be take issue with what the person says, and correct them... that wouldn't, on the surface seem that different from what the INTPs do... ok, but I guess mine are glaringly obvious problems with what the person said, not unnecessary derails getting in the way of furthering productive discussion... I guess that would be the difference... I suppose not all Ti-nitpicking need be this way, either, though... so the issue seems to be that INTPs can nitpick in a Ti way and INTJs can nitpick in Te way, but not all calling out of these issues is necessarily nitpicking; it only becomes nitpicking when it's problematic... so what makes each types' nitpicking problematic?*

Perhaps an example would be demonstrative:

Another nitpick (getting enough evidence to start pondering on this one now): that was more about Ni/Se and Ne/Si, I think.

That wasn't off-topic INTP bashing.

So you're just plain wrong on this one.

That wouldn't qualify as a useless nitpick.

You made a claim that was false, and I pointed it out.

Would be pretty clear and obvious to any rational person reading this.

*feels the Si-users cringe at that sentence*

Nah, that's not INTP bashing, either.

That's just pointing something out in a lighthearted manner.

It's also impossible to actually come up with that all-encompassing solution.

It's futile.

I'm not saying that INTPs' efforts can't bear fruit -- they can.

But the belief that one can discover an all-encompassing theory of everything is ridiculous.

It's inherently doomed to fail.

The best one could do is delude themselves that their theory actually encompasses everything.

And I wouldn't exactly call that INTP-bashing, either.

That is a factual claim, not an attack.

You could say, "no, you're wrong."

To which I'd say, "whatever floats your boat, buddy... "

It is inherently and objectively doomed to fail, imo, and, as such, is futile.

So, not only was I not "bashing" INTPs, but merely making a factual claim that I genuinely believe to be true (and don't believe that this is just an unfounded belief, but believe it's a belief strongly rooted in reality), but I actually threw a bone to INTPs (and one that I genuinely believe) and said that their efforts can indeed bear fruit.

In other words, stop whining.

 

[Zarathustra]

...and every comment is subjective.

Get your Fi-dom relativistic nonsense out of here.

If the comment is in accord with reality, it is objective.

Topical?

This thread has been derailed since this post:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54177&p=1810486&viewfull=1#post1810486

 

[garbage]

In asking whether INTP or INTJ solutions are better, there is a third route: combining them. I work with a number of INTPs, and my SO is one as well. Sometimes it feels as though when we work together well, there is nothing we can't accomplish.

Thank God for a post that actually has some substance to it. Hats off to you.

We can take a somewhat probabilistic sense of the world, realizing that reality changes and that some aspects are easily predictable and others are not. Treating every possibility as equally likely and/or valid isn't particularly smart; neither is focusing on one possibility without any contingency planning whatsoever.

Usually, we have limited time and resources and must concentrate on the most likely possibilities and the best 'bangs for the buck' before we delve deeply into others, if we ever hope to deliver something practical, workable, and applicable to the real world.

I thought that line of reasoning was close to common sense.

 

[Rasofy]

This thread has been derailed since this post:
http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54177&p=1810486&viewfull=1#post1810486

Unsurprisingly, made by an INTP. One of the few things INTPs do better than INTJs, right?

Edit: Seriously now, you mentioned some relevant stuff about INTPs, but the fact that you only focus on our bad side (and seem to ignore the ones INTJs have) compromises the impartiality and reliability of your points.
Most of Coriolis' and ummlau's comments were neutral and balanced, but you are basically filtering what is bad about the INTP way and what is a supposedly supreme perfection about the INTJ way.


inb4 you regard this post as an Inferior Fe reaction.