Which Type Would Make The Best King?

[Poki]

They are so confident of their decisions the moment (split second) they realize their thorough knowledge is out-dated/ not-applicable/ cannot-be-implemented they plan again. It takes only moments for them. And they would quickly make an extremely different decision. (A contingency plan it could be called.)

But how many contingency plans do they have to go through before they realize there goal is wrong?

 

[Riva]

But how many contingency plans do they have to go through before they realize there goal is wrong?

Maybe I was wrong when I wrote contingency plans. Once a decision is made they make contingency plans which was only one of the descriptions of my post. (This comes naturally to them.)

Adaptability,

We were initially discussing adaptability not goal setting. When I meant adaptability I had the process of achieving the goal in my mind and not the goal itself. When it comes to adaptability of the process what I said stands (and by definition and experience correct) and I hope my definition was clear enough?



And when it comes to Goals,

INTJs are still ahead hands down. And it is due to the same reasons I described in their goal settings. INTJs are so decisive they would in a split second decide to drop a project they have been working on (lets say maybe) for 5 long years if they (when they) realize it is not-necessary/ something-more-useful-is-around-the-corner/ a-more-pressing-matter-is-around-the-corner etc.

Any other type would find it incredibly hard to drop a project which they have been dedicatedly been working on for such a long time. They (the INTJ) might or might not resume later when they find the need/time/leisure for it etc.

All of these comes down to decisiveness. The INTJs Thor's Hammer is their decisiveness. And they are though more inclined on knowledge than adaptability (which of course you were right), are so decisive they would decide to adapt and adapt FASTER than any other type to a newer goal and would be more specific on it than any other type would.

All comes down to their decisiveness.

 

[Riva]

Maybe I was wrong when I wrote contingency plans. Once a decision is made they make contingency plans which was only one of the descriptions of my post. (This comes naturally to them.)

Adaptability,

We were initially discussing adaptability not goal setting. When I meant adaptability I had the process of achieving the goal in my mind and not the goal itself. When it comes to adaptability of the process what I said stands (and by definition and experience correct) and I hope my definition was clear enough?



And when it comes to Goals,

INTJs are still ahead hands down. And it is due to the same reasons I described in their goal settings. INTJs are so decisive they would in a split second decide to drop a project they have been working on (lets say maybe) for 5 long years if they (when they) realize it is not-necessary/ something-more-useful-is-around-the-corner/ a-more-pressing-matter-is-around-the-corner etc.

Any other type would find it incredibly hard to drop a project which they have been dedicatedly been working on for such a long time. They (the INTJ) might or might not resume later when they find the need/time/leisure for it etc.

All of these comes down to decisiveness. The INTJs Thor's Hammer is their decisiveness. And they are though more inclined on knowledge than adaptability (which of course you were right), are so decisive they would decide to adapt and adapt FASTER than any other type to a newer goal and would be more specific on it than any other type would.

All comes down to their decisiveness.

And after reading this post (which is theoretically and by experience correct) I ask you dear [MENTION=12103]_Poki_[/MENTION] were you right to say that,

IPs are more adaptable than INTJs?

Or

Would you adapt as fast and as hard core as an INTJ I described above?

And

Whether [MENTION=8413]Zarathustra[/MENTION] was incorrect?

 

[Poki]

Maybe I was wrong when I wrote contingency plans. Once a decision is made they make contingency plans which was only one of the descriptions of my post. (This comes naturally to them.)

Adaptability,

We were initially discussing adaptability not goal setting. When I meant adaptability I had the process of achieving the goal in my mind and not the goal itself. When it comes to adaptability of the process what I said stands (and by definition and experience correct) and I hope my definition was clear enough?



And when it comes to Goals -

INTJs are still ahead hands down. And it is due to the same reasons I described in their goal settings. INTJs are so decisive they would in a split second decide to drop a project they have been working on (lets say maybe) for 5 long years if they (when they) realize it is not-necessary/ something-more-useful-is-around-the-corner/ a-more-pressing-matter-is-around-the-corner etc. Any other type would find it incredibly hard to drop a project which they have been dedicatedly been working on for such a long time. They might or might not resume later when they find the need/time/leisure for it etc.

Yes, clear enough after this post.

Dropping projects I know about, I have adapted that from my dad ...Unfinished projects...lol. I am determined which means I will work at something until I figure it out, but I dont like starting to many projects until I discard the old projects. I have no problems switching though to something else even after 5 years. I had a car I was working on, swapped out engines with one imported from Japan, installed and programmed a DIY fuel/ignition, was working on the interior, got it running...not good at interior, had other pressing things to spend money on, challenge of engine swap/programming was done...pulled standalone fuel management system and a few other parts and gave the car to someone so he could sell it as scrap metal and let him keep the money. I was done, I dont miss it, I dont wish I didnt get rid of it. My dad(INTJ) finally sold his 1959 Chevy truck that me and him worked on after about 15 years...called ISTJ/ISTP(I think most would say he is ISTP on here) uncle up and said..I want x amount of money, anything over that you sell it for you can keep.

 

[Riva]

Yes, clear enough after this post.

Dropping projects I know about, I have adapted that from my dad ...Unfinished projects...lol. I am determined which means I will work at something until I figure it out, but I dont like starting to many projects until I discard the old projects. I have no problems switching though to something else even after 5 years. I had a car I was working on, swapped out engines with one imported from Japan, installed and programmed a DIY fuel/ignition, was working on the interior, got it running...not good at interior, had other pressing things to spend money on, challenge of engine swap/programming was done...pulled standalone fuel management system and a few other parts and gave the car to someone so he could sell it as scrap metal and let him keep the money. I was done, I dont miss it, I dont wish I didnt get rid of it. My dad(INTJ) finally sold his 1959 Chevy truck that me and him worked on after about 15 years...called ISTJ/ISTP(I think most would say he is ISTP on here) uncle up and said..I want x amount of money, anything over that you sell it for you can keep.

You had to drag cars in to this didn't you?

This is why stereotyping beats common sense on any given day .

[MENTION=4490]Orangey[/MENTION] must be kicking and screaming in her pajamas while taking her beauty sleep.

 

[Poki]

And after reading this post (which is theoretically and by experience correct) I ask you dear [MENTION=12103]_Poki_[/MENTION] were you right to say that,

IPs are more adaptable than INTJs?

Or

Would you adapt as fast and as hard core as an INTJ I described above?

And

Whether [MENTION=8413]Zarathustra[/MENTION] was incorrect?

Yes as fast, but not as hard core. I dont equate hard-core with adaptability, its actually counter productive as "hard-core" may be in an area that isnt really adapting, but the INTJ just going with the next path in his head. Which is more like shifting gears.

 

[Riva]

Also an Es ability is defined by those they surround themselves with. EPs ability is different then EJs. EJs are based on advisors knowledge/expertise. An EPs ability is based on adaptability of those around them. IJs are based on internal knowledge, and IP on internal adaptability.

Yes as fast, but not as hard core. I dont equate hard-core with adaptability, its actually counter productive as "hard-core" may be in an area that isnt really adapting, but the INTJ just going with the next path in his head. Which is more like shifting gears.

You still didn't answer my question as to whether or not you understood the fact that the strength of an INTJ lies in decisiveness and that they use decisiveness to adapt quite fast? And faster than most other types?

Shifting gears is also a form of adapting and

Contingency planning is another point I raised which I believe is a form of another adaptability. But for the sake of the topic being adaptability it should
be kept aside.

And wonders what on earth you mean by adaptability?

 

[Poki]

You still didn't answer my question as to whether or not you understood the fact that the strength of an INTJ lies in decisiveness and that they use decisiveness to adapt quite fast? And faster than most other types?

Shifting gears is also a form of adapting and

Contingency planning is another point I raised which I believe is a form of another adaptability. But for the sake of the topic being adaptability it should
be kept aside.

And wonders what on earth you mean by adaptability?

Adaptability is the ability to bend and adjust to the current situation.

I dont have an answer to that one which is why I havnt answered...its both right and wrong depending on how I want to spin it....basically I can agree and disagree.

Shifting gears is a form of attempting to adapt...you are right..it is a form of "adapting" or the act of trying to adapt. But it does not mean that person has actually adapted. If they shift gears to adapt and then have to shift gears again for the same situation, did they really adapt the first time or just attempt to? Adapt is more of an "end" result, so the more the end result changes the more you are forced to adapt. I dont see that being a strong point for an IJ, a constant shift which is what someone who is good at adapting can handle.

 

[Coriolis]

IME, INTJs do not decide in a split second to abandon a long-term project. We often see (visualize) in a split second: why the project has become a bad idea; what would be better; how the better idea roughly would look; how everything could be reconfigured to switch to the new project (yes, all this is a split second). BUT (this is where Te comes in), we then cross-check as much of this as possible with available information, and flesh out a plan to make the change in the most efficient manner possible. The idea of INTJs making a significant change of direction in a heartbeat may just reflect our attitude of detachment, even from issues that affect us personally. We will not hold on for sentimental reasons, and will not spare our own feelings once we are convinced that a change is needed.

INTJs are certainly decisive, but as Ni-doms, our greater strength is the ability to completely reorient our perspective on a dime. This internal adaptability enables us to see solutions no one thought of, or often to see that we are trying to solve the wrong problem. It is classic INTJ behavior to question the goal at hand while everyone else is caught up in debating how best to reach it.

But how many contingency plans do they have to go through before they realize there goal is wrong?

This depends on an individual's balance between perseverance and the kind of intuitive adaptability mentioned above. INTJs tend to be patient and persistent, and unlikely to give up when our first attempt at something does not succeed. I personally have learned, though, that when my best efforts do not bring about the desired results, I need to reexamine my goals. Just how many approaches I will try depends on how quickly I can cycle through them, how urgent or significant the need is, and other circumstances.

To (over)simplify: INTJ adaptablilty is primarily mental. It is almost instantaneous on this level, but converting it into action is a deliberate process, and much slower. SP adaptability seems much more instinctive. Action follows naturally, almost reflexively, which is much faster. Each type of adaptability lends itself to different situations.

 

[Beargryllz]

I want to be king

 

[Poki]

IME, INTJs do not decide in a split second to abandon a long-term project. We often see (visualize) in a split second: why the project has become a bad idea; what would be better; how the better idea roughly would look; how everything could be reconfigured to switch to the new project (yes, all this is a split second). BUT (this is where Te comes in), we then cross-check as much of this as possible with available information, and flesh out a plan to make the change in the most efficient manner possible. The idea of INTJs making a significant change of direction in a heartbeat may just reflect our attitude of detachment, even from issues that affect us personally. We will not hold on for sentimental reasons, and will not spare our own feelings once we are convinced that a change is needed.

INTJs are certainly decisive, but as Ni-doms, our greater strength is the ability to completely reorient our perspective on a dime. This internal adaptability enables us to see solutions no one thought of, or often to see that we are trying to solve the wrong problem. It is classic INTJ behavior to question the goal at hand while everyone else is caught up in debating how best to reach it.


This depends on an individual's balance between perseverance and the kind of intuitive adaptability mentioned above. INTJs tend to be patient and persistent, and unlikely to give up when our first attempt at something does not succeed. I personally have learned, though, that when my best efforts do not bring about the desired results, I need to reexamine my goals. Just how many approaches I will try depends on how quickly I can cycle through them, how urgent or significant the need is, and other circumstances.

To (over)simplify: INTJ adaptablilty is primarily mental. It is almost instantaneous on this level, but converting it into action is a deliberate process, and much slower. SP adaptability seems much more instinctive. Action follows naturally, almost reflexively, which is much faster. Each type of adaptability lends itself to different situations.

That last part...to over simplify...is why, atleast from my exprience...INTJs and ISTPs work good together. Especially since we speak through a similiar thought pattern. It usually ends up from my experience a very give and take nature in regards to ideas as well as action and works very well. Its normally the "people" arena where we are so drastically different. But IJs arent normally forceful, so it just causes a disconnect in beliefs, not normally in a forceful manner.

They can be forceful, but not normally...i still dont believe they would be good kings. I dont think a head type can have enough knowledge to be a king. It would overwhelm, and i dont think a decisive type would be as good either. If an ENxJ would focus on the people that surround them and those peoples ability at what they do and manage that, he would make a very good king...and the country would be managed by many, but controlled by one...indirectly. There is a difference between a leader and a manager. Leaders lead the country in a direction, managers are more of an over seer of everything.

 

[Coriolis]

That last part...to over simplify...is why, atleast from my exprience...INTJs and ISTPs work good together. Especially since we speak through a similiar thought pattern. It usually ends up from my experience a very give and take nature in regards to ideas as well as action and works very well. Its normally the "people" arena where we are so drastically different. But IJs arent normally forceful, so it just causes a disconnect in beliefs, not normally in a forceful manner.

They can be forceful, but not normally...i still dont believe they would be good kings. I dont think a head type can have enough knowledge to be a king. It would overwhelm, and i dont think a decisive type would be as good either. If an ENxJ would focus on the people that surround them and those peoples ability at what they do and manage that, he would make a very good king...and the country would be managed by many, but controlled by one...indirectly. There is a difference between a leader and a manager. Leaders lead the country in a direction, managers are more of an over seer of everything.

I know few ISTPs, but tend to work well with them. What do you see as the differences in the people arena? I have not noticed that so much. INTJs can be very forceful, but usually in areas where we know what we are doing, and are trying to get something accomplished. Otherwise, it is usually live and let live.

Abilities aside, I'm not sure the average INTJ would even want to be king. We're more suited to taking over temporarily, to lead everyone through some time of trouble perhaps, after which we go back to doing what we really want to do. Perhaps regent for a child until they come of age, etc.

 

[Nicodemus]

Abilities aside, I'm not sure the average INTJ would even want to be king. We're more suited to taking over temporarily, to lead everyone through some time of trouble perhaps, after which we go back to doing what we really want to do. Perhaps regent for a child until they come of age, etc.

I am much more comfortable as the King's Bishop.

 

[Amargith]

This was a cute thread. Im sorry I missed it in all its heat way back when, really

I voted ENTJ and ENFJ in the end. Though I feel INTJ would do a marvellous job, they would grow weary in the end as their preferred position is behind the scenes, ime (My own INTJ often gets forced into positions of power to clean up the mess, but once that has been taken care of, he tends to train up someone to take over for him and maintain shit, so he can just do the adviser/puppeteering thing). I think an extravert would feel less burdened by the job.

ENTJs, provided they arent too ego-consumed to realize they need help and that being disagreed with isnt an attack on their authority, would be brilliant at it, I feel. They can take swift action, dont shy away from big projects, seem to have endless energy to fix shit (and lets face it, a kingdom needs constant fixing and developing), and would, if not suffering from paranoia, be open to sound boarding their ideas and their vision off of their advisors.

Wrt helping an ENTJ monarch with that paranoia (often stemming from inferior Fi), I'd suggest an NFP/NFJ Queen, someone who can help him figure out how to trust himself and others, as well as someone who is not driven by power and someone who shares that abstract vision of the world with him, to facilitate communication. That way the ENTJ *knows* at least that he can trust *one* person in his entourage, someone who is skilled at reading others and figuring out who else is trustworthy in that entourage (aka figure out the social politics of it all), which will do a lot for his sanity and consequent actions in his role as monarch


ENFJs would work similarly, though the mix of advisors would have to be customised to fit their particular strengths and weaknesses.


Personally, I'd prefer an ENTJ monarch, with an INTJ right hand to ensure smooth running of the kingdom. Aside from that, an ENFJ PR-rep, in order to keep the monarch in tune with the people, as well as keep his star rising. INFJ and NFP advisors to bounce plans off to highlight what social/personal problems his plans potentially will cause in the long run (my INTJ does this wrt his personnel for instance in his company), and which pieces of the social puzzle he missed. NTPs for the development of ideas in specialised key parts of the plans. STJs to keep track of the details within the plans, and maintain those parts already finished (external logistics), and getting updates on how things are going, SFJs for smooth running of the Castle (internal logistics), STPs as the military advisors. SFPs for minstrel duties (spreading culture throughout the land) as well as the court jester who gets to say things to the monarch nobody else can get away with, and provide him with vital feedback from the people


I also personally think that for a group unified in a cause, be it cultural, ethnic or linguistical or social in some way, ENFJS would be better suited as then that tribal element becomes more prominent and usable, something Fe is infinitely more suited for than Te.

Going further, I think that if you go down to tribal status, ESTPs would be the ultimate Chieftains, especially when strength, adaptability and immediate action wrt your immediate environment are essential and the banding together can save your lives.

Lastly, I think cities are best run by ESTJs, due to the loss of that tribal element, while still being 'small' enough to keep planning and running it on a concrete rather than abstract level, and stickler little details actually become vital to the success of said city in all areas.

 

[Poki]

I know few ISTPs, but tend to work well with them. What do you see as the differences in the people arena? I have not noticed that so much. INTJs can be very forceful, but usually in areas where we know what we are doing, and are trying to get something accomplished. Otherwise, it is usually live and let live.

Abilities aside, I'm not sure the average INTJ would even want to be king. We're more suited to taking over temporarily, to lead everyone through some time of trouble perhaps, after which we go back to doing what we really want to do. Perhaps regent for a child until they come of age, etc.

One difference bewteen ISTP and INTJ I see is that an ISTP is alot more laid back when it comes to how things should be done. I dont have a vision of how things should be or should run. I also wouldnt gain the trust of citizens at first as I not very controlling which means I tend to sit back more so I can see the dynamics of everything, get my feet wet to see how people respond, try something, all the while learning everyone. That is really far from a king that would jump in and start changing things, pushing his vision. I am seeing how firm I need to be, how forceful I need to be, what I need to do to get things done that need to get done.

Most people need a visionary and I am more of a consultant. I am not gonna tell you what you want, I will look to see who you are, how you work, what may be best, because I wont own things I dont think I need to own. I dont own peoples opinions or wants or dreams. I own what I take on as my job and opinions, dreams, wants will never be a job. Getting them to come to fruition I could own, but not making the decision of what people think.

The biggest difference between INTJ and ISTP is INTJ can get there panties in a wad alot easier when people dont see what they see. ISTP doesnt care as much about a vision so can let go sometimes when an INTJ still pushes. These have pros and cons dependent on each situation. One is not better then the other.

With the way I would run things I would expect the people to rise up, not just be puppets.

 

[Poki]

Going further, I think that if you go down to tribal status, ESTPs would be the ultimate Chieftains, especially when strength, adaptability and immediate action wrt your immediate environment are essential and the banding together can save your lives.

I agree that STPs would do much better in a tribal setting. More free reign, not all these rules, beuracracies(sp?), or alot of the crap. Where when 2 people have issues it gets settled by the strongest wins. I like that better then laws and such where you end up trapped because of cielings that are put over you.

A tribal leader would make sure that things are kept with as much peace as possible. Not putting cielings, but by working through issues.

 

[RaptorWizard]

I voted ESTP because they would have the balls to actually do something radical and crazy whereas all of the other types would get lazy and eat at Burger King!

 

[Elfboy]

I'm gonna change my vote
ENTJ 1w2>3w4>5w6/6w5 So/Sp

 

[Poki]

My Director at work is an ENTJ. He is awesome. His job is essentially to listen to his underlings who are very skilled in each area and coordinate and make things happen. He has ideas of his own he tries to push, but a capable underling will always push back and reason those out or provide direction and possibly even allow it while making sure that it doesnt mess anything up. An ENTJ who tries to be skilled in each area and becomes very controlling will have ALOT of issues. There vision needs to stay high level and not get into so much of the detail. More about giving high level orders, not specific micro-manager orders.

The problems with ENTJ could be that the underlings who speak the most are not the ones who are the most knowledgable which can steer the ENTJ off in wrong directions and things just start to begin spiralling. So even with an ENTJ as king they are heavily dependent on knowledgable people under them. I have an ESTP boss and one thing he controls is how and what information makes it to the ENTJ. Kinda like a buffer or a middle man. kinda like 3 levels. The King who takes in and makes things happen, the manager who decides who/what makes it up to the king, and the underlings who are the consultants.

I still vote ENTJ for a king.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

I know who I'd pick.