Logical thinkers and religion

[Qlip]

You mean science really isn't a religion after all?

No, but Scientism is.

 

[Mal12345]

No, but Scientism is.

I'll let everybody form their own conclusions about that. Meanwhile, it should be mentioned that everything human has an illogical basis which then may be justified by reason and logic.

 

[guesswho]

Religion is not inherently illogical either. And I will need some examples of "illogical members of society."

Which of the following pictures makes logical sense to you ?

 

[A window to the soul]

All. God created the universe; it's not surprising he can walk on water.

 

[Qlip]

I'll let everybody form their own conclusions about that. Meanwhile, it should be mentioned that everything human has an illogical basis which then may be justified by reason and logic.

That sounds about right to me.

 

[guesswho]

All. God created the universe; it's not surprising he can walk on water.

Moses wasn't God and he could move the sea.

How could he split a sea in 2?

Was Moses creating a force field inside the sea?

If so, how?

Why can't anyone create a force field in seas today ?

And how would anyone create a large boat to fit all the species on earth?

And how would someone gather all the species on earth?

I just googled and: "Scientists have described over 1.7 million of the world's species of animals, plants and algae, as of 2010."

Well I guess we could exclude the algae because they live in the sea. Although I guess the algae would die too, in case of a flood.

How would Noah collect 1.4 millions of species ?

And you need a male and a female otherwise he would have collected them for nothing, in the case of animals.

So he would need, about let's say 2 million of species.

If Noah would have lived 60 years from the point he was given the task, then he should have "collected" a species and brought it on the ship in 1.296 seconds.

Not to mention that he would have needed a ship as large as a small city.

 

[Nicodemus]

God created the universe; it's not surprising he can walk on water.

It is surprising that he deems it necessary, though.

 

[ChocolateMoose123]

There's a broader question in the OP. What causes one to have faith in something unproven? Do logical thinkers have a more difficult time with this and why?
No need to go into specific religious dogma.

 

[guesswho]

Who says you have to believe everything to believe in something? There's a broader question in the OP and no specific religion was named.

Well it's safe to assume that most of us are Christians, so I'm not going to talk about Buddha.

So, people who believe in Jesus should ignore the fact that, Moses would have needed 1.3 seconds to collect a species and bring it into the ship, in order to gather all the species on Earth, if he would have lived for 60 more years from the point he started everything?

Well, unless God beamed all the animals on the ship.

And there's more that doesn't make sense in this story.

In the bible it didn't say that the glaciers melted and that's where the water came from. It states that it rained, until the highest mountains were covered by water. (from what I remember)
Mount Everest has 8796 meters, where the hell would all that water come from? We don't have so much water.

That's unless God decided to beam us some water.

 

[guesswho]

And why would God need a Noah, a ship and a flood to kill 99% of life on earth ?

 

[A window to the soul]

It is surprising that he deems it necessary, though.

Why not? He didn't just get out of a boat and go for a walk on water. He walked on water to get from the land to the boat (because he could). No need to get wet.

 

[Nicodemus]

Why not? He didn't just get out of a boat and go for a walk on water. He walked on water to get from the land to the boat (because he could). No need to get wet.

I mean the whole god-is-human nonsense.

 

[Mal12345]

I mean the whole god-is-human nonsense.

Jesus denied his own Godhood, and stated that only God merits worship.

 

[A window to the soul]

I mean the whole god-is-human nonsense.

-sighs-

I've explained this to you before; listening ears.

 

[Nicodemus]

-sighs-

I've explained this to you before; listening ears.

That has not made it any more sensible.

 

[A window to the soul]

That has not made it any more sensible.

I'm tired.

I know, I know, don't tell me...

 

[Coriolis]

I don't believe the intended point of religion was primarily to be a science, to explain the world. I believe the point of religion is to explain our relationship to the world, in the only language we can understand: metaphor.

Some are compelled to contradict what they see with their own eyes to uphold that metaphor. It's a matter of prioritizing facts vs a chosen understanding of their place in the universe.

Yes, this is crucial. It is pointless to expect a metaphor to agree with the evidence of our senses, though. That's worse than comparing apples and oranges; at least they are both fruit. Evidence and metaphor appeal to us on different levels, and as you point out in the first paragraph, answer different questions. No one rejects the lessons of Aesop's Fables on the grounds that the tortoise and the hare weren't real.

Perhaps this is one of the distinctions that enables "logical folk" to have faith; the idea that we can believe in an idea that needn't have concrete, demonstrable form. It is the lesson, moral, or other insight behind the unfactual facts that is important.

Well it's safe to assume that most of us are Christians, so I'm not going to talk about Buddha.

So, people who believe in Jesus should ignore the fact that, Moses would have needed 1.3 seconds to collect a species and bring it into the ship, in order to gather all the species on Earth, if he would have lived for 60 more years from the point he started everything?

And there's more that doesn't make sense in this story.

Yes, there is plenty in the Bible that makes no sense in a literal, factual, even historical sense. Anyone who expects that it will is either delusional or ultimately disappointed. Treated as metaphor, however, it has much to tell about human nature, our place in the world, and how people relate to God.

Non-Christians are often more accustomed or open to interpreting religious information metaphorically. Discussions of religion with Christians so often devolve into bickering about things like whether Noah really did fit all those creatures into the ark. It misses the point, especially to those of us who are not Christian.

Which of the following pictures makes logical sense to you ?

How about these:

I put them in the same category as the other three - artwork. None are meant to make logical sense. They make artistic or esthetic sense, figurative or metaphorical sense.

 

[guesswho]

If these stories are metaphors, then can "God created the universe" part be a metaphor too ?

To me, the only logical answer regarding the existence of God is : we do not know. How can we? I don't understand.

 

[Coriolis]

If these stories are metaphors, then can "God created the universe" part be a metaphor too ?

To me, the only logical answer regarding the existence of God is : we do not know. How can we? I don't understand.

Define "create".

Yes, we cannot know, at least not in our present life. The existence and nature of God are a matter of belief, not knowledge. It takes more than logic to arrive at a non-trivial solution to the problem.

 

[A window to the soul]

To me, the only logical answer regarding the existence of God is : we do not know. How can we? I don't understand.

I know God exists. I had moments of fear and doubt when I could not rationalize what I was taught from childhood. I began my own journey to find the truth. I don't have any doubts now.

If these stories are metaphors, then can "God created the universe" part be a metaphor too ?

To me, the only logical answer regarding the existence of God is : we do not know. How can we? I don't understand.

I understand where you're coming from.

The stories from your pictures were not metaphors.

These are all valid questions. I will reply tomorrow.

Peace to you.