Fe Fakeness

[Kalach]

You know what, I wonder if this harmonization applies to all e functions, perception included. It might in some sense be the definition of "e". And account for the conflicts that go on between e and i.

Which is interesting, but still leaves open the question of the particular harmonization that goes on with F.

 

[uumlau]

You know what, I wonder if this harmonization applies to all e functions, perception included. It might in some sense be the definition of "e". And account for the conflicts that go on between e and i.

Yes, there is something to this. Even the "harshness" of Te is a kind of harmony.

Which is interesting, but still leaves open the question of the particular harmonization that goes on with F.

Well, I think looking at the "harsh" Te version puts it in perspective. Fe might have a more conventional harmony.

But yes, the e vs i observation on your part is apt. All of the "e" functions are easily shared with others, even others for whom the "e" function is tertiary or inferior. The "i" functions are not easily shared at all, even between those who share particular "i" functions.

 

[Kalach]

Meanwhile, Jung did say extroverted functions mirror the outer world. That's quite the opaque expression, come to think of it. Mirror? Harmonize is interesting as an idea, particularly for judgments functions and particularly with respect to people who aren't omniscient. They'll assert their judgments, extrovert them for testing among others, and if they're so inclined will correct those judgments. But who is top dog? Who leads the judgment making? It would seem that in general they all do! Everyone has some ability and perhaps some right to at least offer some correction to everyone else. How could they not? After all, they all think they're right in some way.

Is there some agreed upon procedure? How could people compare results if there weren't? But there isn't. If there is, it's been implanted by aliens while we sleep because I'm not aware of coordinating with others on how to make judgments. Coordinate judgement, yes; coordinate method... maybe no, not directly. The result's the thing.

Instead, one hears other people as making statements, and I guess one compares the outside statements with one's own. And then comments. Etc and so on until some coordination of commentary is going on.

What's the judgment system though? Prima facie, statements are evaluated according to what everyone else says. But one doesn't always have everyone else present to tell them what to think. One sometimes goes off and thinks for oneself. Can one still make judgments at such times?

And in conclusion (sorta):

The difference between feeling and Fe is (I guess) obvious. Let's claim the difference between thinking and Te is equally obvious and exists in the same way. Te encapsulates the method you use, even when you're alone. So perhaps does Fe encapsulate "method". It guides understanding or placement of given feeling into context.

 

[Nicodemus]

I'd be guessing there's a problem with words only if there exists some world that's better and more compelling than the real world. The problem arises in the matching--the knowing of which concepts suits which actual existent.

What has me wonder is that the typology game you play in your inner world seems so pointless and, at least to my understanding, by definition inconclusive. It looks like a Ti game. I assume you have some kind of goal in mind when you play; my humble guess is that a different set of words would be better suited to reach it.

And someone call Paris. Nicodemus may be plotting.

In my world, luckily, Paris does not have a telephone number.

 

[Kalach]

What has me wonder is that the typology game you play in your inner world seems so pointless and, at least to my understanding, by definition inconclusive. It looks like a Ti game. I assume you have some kind of goal in mind when you play; my humble guess is that a different set of words would be better suited to reach it.

It's an i game at any rate, a construction of concepts in some dynamic relationship to some conceptual system. I count the concepts as formally prior to the labels. It's the construction of these concepts that provides the labels with meaning, not the other way around.

If there were some inadequacy in the conceptual scheme that could be addressed by introducing some new concepts or by re-conceptualizing the whole thing... that'd be cool. Extra depth and new connection is (almost) always a good thing.


The TPs made all the rules in philosophy. One day they will pay.

 

[Nicodemus]

It's an i game at any rate, a construction of concepts in some dynamic relationship to some conceptual system. I count the concepts as formally prior to the labels. It's the construction of these concepts that provides the labels with meaning, not the other way around.

Due to the aforementioned impression, I only skimmed your blog. So it is possible that I did not do it justice by suggesting that it only moves the puzzle pieces around.

If there were some inadequacy in the conceptual scheme that could be addressed by introducing some new concepts or by re-conceptualizing the whole thing... that'd be cool. Extra depth and new connection is (almost) always a good thing.

I found 'Memory: From Mind to Molecules' by Eric Kandel and Larry Squire very fascinating.

The TPs made all the rules in philosophy. One day they will pay.

One of my life tasks.

 

[entropie]

Dont be sad big boys. I am sure there will be a time and place when a tp doesnt steal all the attention from you

 

[Little Linguist]

It's nice and somewhat comforting to know that no matter how long I stay away, some things never change....

It's the attack of the killer Fe shark again. RAWR.

 

[entropie]

It's nice and somewhat comforting to know that no matter how long I stay away, some things never change....

It's the attack of the killer Fe shark again. RAWR.

yea its like that:

Glad to have you back

 

[Little Linguist]

Oh my goodness, hahahahahhahaha! Thanks, good to be back. Missed you guys.

 

[lunalum]

It's nice and somewhat comforting to know that no matter how long I stay away, some things never change....

It's the attack of the killer Fe shark again. RAWR.

So true, and great timing..... thanks for rescuing us

 

[Kalach]

LOL.

Oh look, the saviors of Fe have reinstated its prior role. You skipped straight over the parts where the usual words to criticise Fe have become applicable to all functions now and ceased to be criticism, huh?

Cabalists gonna cabal.

 

[entropie]

I like how you answer your own answers

 

[Zarathustra]

Oh look, the saviors of Fe have reinstated its prior role. You skipped straight over the parts where the usual words to criticise Fe have become applicable to all functions now and ceased to be criticism, huh?

Cabalists gonna cabal.

Truth is not important to them.

Only togetherness.

 

[Kalach]

We should shun them.

 

[011235813]

OMG, THEY'RE TURNING INTO UNICORNS!

:uni:

 

[Zarathustra]

*commences shunning*

 

[Kalach]

If "Fe" and "Te" are structures within which thought and feeling move toward evaluation (and "Ne" and "Se" are styles of attention paid in the collection and experience of data), and they all rely on this harmonization, then I don't know, I just had to repeat it to see if anyone else is as surprised as I am.

An omniscient agent could harmonize with the ideal standard, the world as it is. But regular individuals cannot. They rely instead on perception of the world and construction of standards over time, and that--dynamic construction with other people--becomes the standard. Maybe this is more pronounced in the case of Fe. Maybe not. It's interesting, though--isn't it?--that there has to be the two aspects, one settling on judgment and the other moving judgment forward. Apparently it's this second aspect that keeps on surprising people. They get shafted by the first aspect then the second aspect goes and changes things.

Is it just me, or is that not a pathway toward not denying the legitimacy of "the other" system of judgment and expression? In theory, since both Ji and Je have dynamic aspects, one day they coincide. The process of reaching coincidence will be very, very unpleasant, but the end result is... could be... the same?

Potentially not, though. Ji retains its dynamism by avoiding contact with other judgments; Je retains its dynamism by avoiding too heavy influence of individual judgment.


It's an interesting result. On the one hand, if you all know you're using different terms for your judgments, why insist on other people using your terms? On the other hand, everyone has terms that at some point they must harmonize with others or they'll have those terms fail to function.


:uni:

 

[Kalach]

*resumes stunning, dahling, is shunning*

 

[Glycerine]

Hahaha, I was thinking that as a e5 eNFJ, I would be a shitty person to be representative of most Fe doms because most seem to be 1, 2, or 3. Hell, I probably operate more like a stereotypical TJ user (but "nicer") to get things done. Lol My Fe is just much more apparent online.