Fe Fakeness

[Kalach]

Pffft, what more monstrous thing must there be for the Ti believer than Fi? It looks the same, it functions the same, it's where people go for inner judgment... AND IT'S SHOT THROUGH WITH SUBJECTIVE FEELING, THE WHOLE THING IS OMG FEELING! A TOTAL Ti BLACKHOLE OF MISINFORMATION AND CONFUSION!!

If only it could be rectified. It needs to be rectified. This gravity well of nothingness needs to be shown for the corruption it truly is.


Move along people, nothing to fear here.

 

[Zarathustra]

But thats true, its just that if the Fi is undifferentiated this happens unconsciously. and in order to start differentiating Fi, you need to aknowledge this happening. since you dont see this, it suggests that you have undeveloped unconscious Fi guiding your Te. read jung and youll find this out

Surprise, surprise; per usual, you are completely out of touch with reality here.

You wouldn't have the slightest chance of accurately representing my views on this issue.

If you'd actually read everything I said, you would know that the bolded is clearly false.

I already dealt with all this during a 2-3 year period about 7-9 years ago.

The impact of such 'confrontation with the shadow produces at first a dead balance, a standstill that hampers moral decisions and makes convictions ineffective...tenebrositas, chaos, melancholia'. Consequently (as Jung knew from personal experience) 'in this time of descent — one, three, seven years, more or less — genuine courage and strength are required', with no certainty of emergence. Nevertheless Jung remained of the opinion that while 'no one should deny the danger of the descent ... every descent is followed by an ascent ...enantiodromia'; and assimilation of — rather than possession by — the shadow becomes at last a real possibility.

Been there, done that.

 

[INTP]

Pffft, what more monstrous thing must there be for the Ti believer than Fi? It looks the same, it functions the same, it's where people go for inner judgment... AND IT'S SHOT THROUGH WITH SUBJECTIVE FEELING, THE WHOLE THING IS OMG FEELING! A TOTAL Ti BLACKHOLE OF MISINFORMATION AND CONFUSION!!

If only it could be rectified. It needs to be rectified. This gravity well of nothingness needs to be shown for the corruption it truly is.


Move along people, nothing to fear here.

Te comes from the inside and inside is determined by Fi Ni, so i totally get it how this might hurt your ego and you getting all Fi raged cuz trying to protect the illusion of objectivity of your ego

 

[INTP]

Surprise, surprise; per usual, you are completely out of touch with reality here.

You wouldn't have the slightest chance of accurately representing my views on this issue.

If you'd actually read everything I said, you would know that the bolded is clearly false.

I already dealt with all this during a several year period about 7-9 years ago.



Been there, done that.

Apparently it didnt hit you hard enough

 

[Zarathustra]

Apparently it didnt hit you hard enough

Once again, you have no grasp of reality.

 

[Zarathustra]

Its not that one exists to undermine another. its that undeveloped unconscious(undifferianted) functions have unconscious guiding effect to developed conscious ones. after function has been differentiated, its brought onto conscious control, thus it loses its unconscious guiding effect to other functions.

The whole point is to separate the parts in order the whole to function properly without any unconscious guidance which might lead to unwanted consequences.

When you are guided by your unconscious, you are bound to your fate, but when you take the unconscious to consciousness, you are creating your own future.

This, however, is all actually good and true.

When you're dealing with theory (Ti), but not the reality right in front of your face (TeSe), you're not completely out of touch.

You can certainly regurgitate your Jung with considerable precision (TiSi).

 

[Zarathustra]

Te comes from the inside and inside is determined by Fi Ni, so i totally get it how this might hurt your ego and you getting all Fi raged cuz trying to protect the illusion of objectivity of your ego

Oversimplification.

Sounds like somebody is still rebelling against his opposite persona Te.

 

[INTP]

Once again, you have no grasp of reality.

Ez trolled

its funny, now you were being out of touch with reality when you failed to realize that i was just teasing you. = you trying to be objective about the world isnt actually being objective, but subjectively choosing what seems objective and rationalizing yourself being objective

some wise man one said: "objectivity is just an illusion, caused by rationalization of ones own subjectivity" or something like that

 

[Kalach]

Te comes from the inside and inside is determined by Fi Ni, so i totally get it how this might hurt your ego and you getting all Fi raged cuz trying to protect the illusion of objectivity of your ego

What "this"? That Te is not objective?

There's such a willful and on-going misinterpretation of this word "objective" that it can only be projection. It's been around much longer than this thread too.



Okay, liars, how do truth valuations come to be? What is there about "objective" functions that promotes one evaluation over others? There are so many useful valuations available but none of them are chosen. What of "probable"? Or "measurable"? Or "standard"? Or "loveable"? Or "cute"? Or "scientific"? Or "partial"? Why is there no value "partial"? Why, instead, "true"? Why is that one privileged?

Does it vary from person to person? I assume it must since this is Ti. So why is there some mystical "objectivity" then?

BECAUSE YOU NEED A WAY TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FEELING AND NOT-FEELING, AND THE ONLY WAY TO DO THAT IS TO HAVE FEELING IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!

"True" is defined by feeling.


And could it be especially wretched in the case of Ti because Fe is the objective function, not Ti? Thus the mystical VALUE of "objective"? A person has only to check with the world to see what's up with Fe, so "true" had better be something extra special, it needs some rigorous foundation that removes it from world checks, something that makes world checks empty... we must be... OBJECTIVE!

 

[Glycerine]

Are you guys still trying to argue about who's "objective"? Everybody has perceptions, life experiences (culturally, life history), values that will subconsciously/ consciously bias them towards certain types of information through their senses. One can only be "objective" about the skewed sense information that he or she picked up on. In essence, pure objectivity can not exist but one can try to be "objective" about their limited/skewed/biased sense information (it's still not exactly 100% pure "objectivity" by any means).
EDIT: I don't see any of the ENTJs arguing this.... HAH. Wouldn't THEY be the most "objective"?

 

[Zarathustra]

Ez trolled

its funny, now you were being out of touch with reality when you failed to realize that i was just teasing you. = you trying to be objective about the world isnt actually being objective, but subjectively choosing what seems objective and rationalizing yourself being objective

some wise man one said: "objectivity is just an illusion, caused by rationalization of ones own subjectivity" or something like that

Wow.

You are brilliant.

 

[INTP]

What "this"? That Te is not objective?

There's such a willful and on-going misinterpretation of this word "objective" that it can only be projection. It's been around much longer than this thread too.



Okay, liars, how do truth valuations come to be? What is there about "objective" functions that promotes one evaluation over others? There are so many useful valuations available but none of them are chosen. What of "probable"? Or "measurable"? Or "standard"? Or "loveable"? Or "cute"? Or "scientific"? Or "partial"? Why is there no value "partial"? Why, instead, "true"? Why is that one privileged?

Does it vary from person to person? I assume it must since this is Ti. So why is there some mystical "objectivity" then?

BECAUSE YOU NEED A WAY TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FEELING AND NOT-FEELING, AND THE ONLY WAY TO DO THAT IS TO HAVE FEELING IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!

"True" is defined by feeling.


And could it be especially wretched in the case of Ti because Fe is the objective function, not Ti? Thus the mystical VALUE of "objective"? A person has only to check with the world to see what's up with Fe, so "true" had better be something extra special, it needs some rigorous foundation that removes it from world checks, something that makes world checks empty... we must be... OBJECTIVE!

Te tries to put out logical and rational explanation into an object in external world. but what is taken in(introverted) from the object shapes the rational explanations by leaving somethings out and taking somethings in based on intuitions and feelings, also not everything is noticed. This is the reason why, even tho Te tries to be objective by following reason, its as subjective as anything else in human mind.. reasons that Te use to rationalize come from subjective processes, so it makes Te subjective too, no matter how strongly it strives on being objective by following reason and logic.

 

[INTP]

Wow.

You are brilliant.

I know.. glad you finally noticed it too

 

[Zarathustra]

I know.. glad you finally noticed it too

 

[Zarathustra]

Te tries to put out logical and rational explanation into an object in external world. but what is taken in(introverted) from the object shapes the rational explanations by leaving somethings out and taking somethings in based on intuitions and feelings, also not everything is noticed. This is the reason why, even tho Te tries to be objective by following reason, its as subjective as anything else in human mind.. reasons that Te use to rationalize come from subjective processes, so it makes Te subjective too, no matter how strongly it strives on being objective by following reason and logic.

Not a horrible explanation, but still doesn't tell the whole story.

You're around the early 20th century or so (and before, obviously).

Better than most, but still not good enough. We've gone further than that.

 

[PeaceBaby]

I don't see any of the ENTJs arguing this.... HAH. Wouldn't THEY be the most "objective"?

ESTJ's I think would be in the best position to claim objectivity, by virtue of their Te / Si orientation.

Te with the rational, logical focus , Si grounded in reality ...

pfft on the NTJ's ...

 

[Glycerine]

[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] needs to show those darned INTJs who's boss..... objectivity for the win!

 

[Mal12345]

If TJs and FPs only use Fi, and Fi invariably causes Fi users to assume that displays of emotion are fake, then are demonstrations of Fe fake?

Assume makes an ass out of u and me.

 

[Mal12345]

Ez trolled

its funny, now you were being out of touch with reality when you failed to realize that i was just teasing you. = you trying to be objective about the world isnt actually being objective, but subjectively choosing what seems objective and rationalizing yourself being objective

some wise man one said: "objectivity is just an illusion, caused by rationalization of ones own subjectivity" or something like that

Possibly it was G.I. Gurdjieff.

 

[Giggly]

My Fi doesn't care if someone else thinks I'm fake because I know I'm not. It's their issue, not mine.