What MBTI type was Carl Jung

[Mole]

And yes he worked for nazi germany, because there was a strong possibility of psychology being pushed down completely in germany, he worked to save that, not to help nazis.

Carl Jung took his orders from Hermann Goering. He took his orders freely and willingly and carried them out.

And we are told an unforgivable lie that Carl Jung worked for Hermann Goering to save psychology, not to serve National Socialism.

And those who believe that will believe anything.

 

[INTP]

Carl Jung took his orders from Hermann Goering. He took his orders freely and willingly and carried them out.

And we are told an unforgivable lie that Carl Jung worked for Hermann Goering to save psychology, not to serve National Socialism.

And those who believe that will believe anything.

Then explain to me why he was friends with jews and saw these friends as equal, the same people who nazis were against and saw as inferior?

 

[Mole]

Then explain to me why he was friends with jews and saw these friends as equal, the same people who nazis were against and saw as inferior?

Sigmund Freud was a Jew who Carl Jung publicly rejected, and rejected his teaching, and rejected his authority. And Jung's Aryan friends drove Sigmund Freud out of this home and murdered his extended family.

And those who are in sympathy with Jung's Aryan friends make propaganda for Carl Jung and against Sigmund Freud. And this same propaganda is regularly repeated on Typology Central.

 

[INTP]

Sigmund Freud was a Jew who Carl Jung publicly rejected, and rejected his teaching, and rejected his authority. And Jung's Aryan friends drove Sigmund Freud out of this home and murdered his extended family.

And those who are in sympathy with Jung's Aryan friends make propaganda for Carl Jung and against Sigmund Freud. And this same propaganda is regularly repeated on Typology Central.

You are bit off with your assumptions. Jung had other jewish friends as well. Jung didnt reject all of freuds teachings, he rejected the idea that oedipus complex is the only complex and freuds general assumption of almost purely sexual nature of the unconscious. Freud was the one who werent able to get over of his own delusions, when jung told him that there is more to the unconscious and libido than just sex.

Btw todays psychology paradigms view psyche much closer to jungs view than freuds view(even tho jung is viewed as the black sheep of psychology due to propaganda from freudians). And reasons for that are pretty obvious. Freuds aim was to take jung down and make people see jung as someone deranged, just because he didnt FULLY accept his views of the unconscious.

 

[reckful]

Carl Jung took his orders from Hermann Goering. He took his orders freely and willingly and carried them out.

I recently corrected you on your apparent mixup of Hermann Goering and a cousin of his who was the head of a German psychotherapy organization. Have you forgotten so soon, or is this more of an integrity-in-the-toilet situation? As I previously noted, that Wikipedia article paints a very different picture than your posts on the issue of Jung's views of, and cooperation with, the Nazis.

Can you point us to a source describing a single "order" from Hermann Goering that Jung "carried out," or do you basically just feel free to make up your own facts?

 

[Mole]

I recently corrected you on your apparent mixup of Hermann Goering and a cousin of his who was the head of a German psychotherapy organization. Have you forgotten so soon, or is this more of an integrity-in-the-toilet situation? As I previously noted, that Wikipedia article paints a very different picture than your posts on the issue of Jung's views of, and cooperation with, the Nazis.

Can you point us to a source describing a single "order" from Hermann Goering that Jung "carried out," or do you basically just feel free to make up your own facts?

Please! Hermann Goering was not only convicted of crimes against humanity, Hermann was also a neptotist. Hermann practised nepotism by ordering Carl Jung to appoint his cousin, Mathias Goering, as head of the psychotherapy association. And being fascinated by Nazism and obedient to the orders of Hermann Goering, Carl Jung followed orders.

Of course you wish to avoid the emotional pain of cognitive dissonance caused by discovering your guru not only was deeply complicit in crimes against humanity, but he was also psychotic.

It is very natural you wish to avoid this emotional pain, and so you deploy the psychological defences of denial and blaming the messenger.

 

[reckful]

Hermann practised nepotism by ordering Carl Jung to appoint his cousin, Mathias Goering, as head of the psychotherapy association. And being fascinated by Nazism and obedient to the orders of Hermann Goering, Carl Jung followed orders.

To repeat part of my question: Can you point us to a source for that, or are you just assuming it because you want it to be a fact?

ADDED: Here's part of a 2011 article in The Guardian with the subhead, "On the 50th anniversary of Jung's death it is time to put accusations of him collaborating with the Nazis to rest."

Jung is also accused of complying with the Nazi authorities, in particular with Matthias Göring, the man who became the leader of organised psychotherapy in Germany, not least because he was the cousin of Hermann Göring. In fact, Matthias put Jung's name to pro-Nazi statements without Jung's knowledge.

Jung was furious, not least because he was actually fighting to keep German psychotherapy open to Jewish individuals. And that was not all. Bair reveals that Jung was involved in two plots to oust Hitler, essentially by having a leading physician declare the Führer mad. Both came to nothing.

It has also come to light that Jung operated as a spy for the OSS (the predecessor to the CIA). He was called "Agent 488" and his handler, Allen W. Dulles, later remarked: "Nobody will probably ever know how much Prof Jung contributed to the allied cause during the war."

 

[INTP]

To repeat part of my question: Can you point us to a source for that, or are you just assuming it because you want it to be a fact?

ADDED: Here's part of a 2011 article in The Guardian with the subhead, "On the 50th anniversary of Jung's death it is time to put accusations of him collaborating with the Nazis to rest."

He is either trolling, retard(which doesent seem likely according to other stuff he has been writing over the years), has some overbearing complexes or is psychotic.

 

[Mole]

He is either trolling, retard(which doesent seem likely according to other stuff he has been writing over the years), has some overbearing complexes or is psychotic.

This is a personal insult directed at me. And personal insults are against the rules and may lead to banning.

 

[reckful]

He is either trolling, retard(which doesent seem likely according to other stuff he has been writing over the years), has some overbearing complexes or is psychotic.

This is a personal insult directed at me. And personal insults are against the rules and may lead to banning.

[MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION] —

Last week, in this very thread, you said that Jung fans "have no intellectual or moral integrity," and that people who subscribe to the MBTI are amoral, narcissistic cultists.

Earlier this week, you told [MENTION=21221]Paladin-X[/MENTION] (also in this thread) that it sounded to you like his parents' failure to meet his "need to be loved unconditionally" may have left him with "a narcissistic neurosis, like so many here," and suggested that he might want to consult a "professional therapist" to have his "psychological damage repaired" so that he wouldn't "go on to damage others."

So I dunno, Mole, I'm not sure you're in the best position to be wailing about INTP's post.

And as for all those charges you've made that Jung was a Nazi supporter, they may not technically violate any forum rules but, assuming you can't really point to any respectable sources for them, they're certainly despicable.

 

[Mole]

The great thing about Typology Central is that we tolerate believers and sceptics, but we don't tolerate personal insults.

I do understand that believers are offended by sceptics, and are tempted to reply by personal insults. But personal insults are against the rules.

 

[INTP]

This is a personal insult directed at me. And personal insults are against the rules and may lead to banning.

I didnt insult you. It would had been an insult if i had said that you are a retard, but i listed possibility of trolling as well and said that its not likely that you are a retard..

 

[yeghor]

I didnt insult you. It would had been an insult if i had said that you are a retard, but i listed possibility of trolling as well and said that its not likely that you are a retard..

Possibilities and probabilities are Ne's domain

 

[Doctor Cringelord]

Possibilities and probabilities are Ne's domain

Unseen possibilities. Just to be clear.

Se can also detect possibilities, it's just a little more focused on the present and immediate environment as it scans for every possible variable.

 

[INTP]

Possibilities and probabilities are Ne's domain

Possibilities are N's domain, and probabilities can be calculates via thinking if all information needed(or what the person thinks is needed) is in conscious realm of the mind. Intuitions approach to probabilities is less conscious. Its really about whether the information needed is processed consciously via thinking, or unconsciously processed and then the answer perceived by intuition.

 

[ILoveJung]

That's because he's an INFJ EII.

The more varied and numerous the arguments created about a type the more likely they're an INFJ or ESTP.

More people mistype as INFJ than not and most INFJs don't correctly type for years

Ni- Most agree he was Ni- seeing and musing on connections in an infinite reality

Fe-
People lean (even Jung himself) toward T here, but that's because people don't understand Fe, ethics, and the concept of the human experience

Ti-
He wanted to make logical sense out of the predecessor Fe- the human experience.

Se-
He said he felt "out of touch with reality" an inferior Se

BBC Interview, Face to Face, aired 1959
"And my relation to reality was not particularly brilliant. … I was often at variance with the reality of things"

He also said "I had a definite difficulty with Feeling". INFJs have difficulty feeling for human beings on a personal level. Fe is constantly being run through the mill of Ti. Feel goods aren't an INFJ thing.

 

[Mole]

Imagine if Carl Jung had completed his psychoanalytic training with Dr Freud, history would have been different.

 

[Eric B]

That's because he's an INFJ EII.

The more varied and numerous the arguments created about a type the more likely they're an INFJ or ESTP.

More people mistype as INFJ than not and most INFJs don't correctly type for years

Ni- Most agree he was Ni- seeing and musing on connections in an infinite reality

Fe-
People lean (even Jung himself) toward T here, but that's because people don't understand Fe, ethics, and the concept of the human experience

Ti-
He wanted to make logical sense out of the predecessor Fe- the human experience.

Se-
He said he felt "out of touch with reality" an inferior Se

BBC Interview, Face to Face, aired 1959
"And my relation to reality was not particularly brilliant. … I was often at variance with the reality of things"

He also said "I had a definite difficulty with Feeling". INFJs have difficulty feeling for human beings on a personal level. Fe is constantly being run through the mill of Ti. Feel goods aren't an INFJ thing.

Beebe in his new book (Energies and Patterns in Psychological Type, Chapter 11, on Jung’s “Red Book”) says Jung was in fact an INTJ, but one whose “thinking was never his true superior function. Rather, his using it as if it were a superior function was a ‘falsification of type’, a not uncommon consequence of ‘abnormal external influences'” (p171).
Then, the companion book, Hunziker's Depth Typology (on Beebe's theory) ch.4 goes even further, in pointing out how Jung seemed to engage both extraverted and introverted Thinking, (“Hence, the endless debate about whether he was an INTJ or an INTP”) Yet, “if you look closely”, Jung’s use of Ti “always seemed somewhat tortured and convoluted, and a bit tinged with the didactic tone of the Senex archetype”.

So all of this may explain why he seems like an INFJ or INTP (basically, a Ti/Fe "Aligning" type).

 

[GavinElster]

Beebe in his new book (Energies and Patterns in Psychological Type, Chapter 11, on Jung’s “Red Book”) says Jung was in fact an INTJ, but one whose “thinking was never his true superior function. Rather, his using it as if it were a superior function was a ‘falsification of type’, a not uncommon consequence of ‘abnormal external influences'” (p171).

I think the challenge is that when it comes to really specific type comparisons, like which intuitive/thinking type was Jung (TiN, NiT), we run into the fact that Beebe and Jung are working by different precise systems. The MBTI's conception of the 8 function-attitudes by no means is identical to Jung's, despite common origins, and further of course is the issue that Jung seemed more OK with typings like NiTi than with typings like NiTe -- so the very frameworks differ.

So I'm personally very skeptical of Beebe-ans' claims that Jung mistyped himself, and prefer the idea that they're simply working based on a revised system.

This doesn't mean I don't think we can strive for a single objectively best system (I personally think the idea of just treating socionics, Jung, MBTI as totally random different systems is absurd), just that it's likely we need to acknowledge the various clashes and find the ideal improvement in each case/get the best overall interpretation of "the" 16 types.



A simple instance where there's a difference between most Myers-Briggs frameworks and Jung's is what "counted" as falling under the thinking function. Things that spilled over into an intellectual domain already seemed to Jung to spill over into the thinking function, in part because he was content to leave some wilder speculative and/or heavily unconsciously perceived phenomena to what he called intuition. Whereas we, having "grown up with" the MBTI's concept of N/S have a view of N as much more compatible with intellectualizing -- maybe we say T is less unconscious, more technical, more explicit, and so on, which is the same in spirit, without relegating N-dominance as being mainly typical of stock-speculators, mystics, and so on.

On balance, here, I prefer the modern formulations (while remaining Jung-purist in other areas), because Jung's seem to apply better to the context of contrasting truly mystical "irrational" approaches with his more rational approaches (probably where he got the idea that he's too rationalistic). But I think most of us would find that, for the broadest explanatory power, the line between rational and intuitive should be drawn elsewhere.


So in short, I'd agree Jung's probably a N-dominant in modern frameworks, ones of the type Beebe is probably thinking of. I'm open to the idea that he can be modeled as a NiTe type -- here I'm not too sure, though. In other words, I'm not sold against the possibility of his being a NiF type.


His diagnosis of self as a TiS type might have something to do with a determination to present himself as a scientist.

 

[Eric B]

It's known that Jung focused on the dominant, and not so much the auxiliary, to the point that it's not always clear which attitude the auxiliary would be in. So if Ni dominant with aux. T, that T might have been presumed to be introverted, hence an apparent “NiTi”.
So Beebe (who is really more Jungian than specifically “MBTI”) basically expanded upon Jung, filling in the areas both he and MBTI had left not fully developed.