Pictorial Guide to the Se/Si Distinction

[Randomnity]

I don't know how strong your Se auxiliary is. At any rate, I'm using the dominant features of type here. So often everybody here tries to relate things to a personal level and lose track of the sensus communis behind it all.

My definitions are more important than any pictorial representations. The Se pictures represent a wide variety of shallow experiences. The Si pictures represent the intensity of singular experiences. An experience is bound to be a feeling, such as excitement or fear. A carnival presents a wide variety of experiences; the base jumper experience is more intense, more personal, and he often pursues the same experience over and over again. For the mountain climber (not pictured) it is himself versus the mountain. It is a singular intense experience represented by the Si function. It doesn't matter if the mountain climber is going it alone or with a group.

As for the idea of Se not necessarily being social, imagine going to a carnival that is completely empty. I surmise (although this is not really the topic) that the presence of a large number of people experiencing the same things adds to the Se excitement, and indeed the social aspect is part of the Se attraction. Being in the audience at a circus is an Se experience, being the lion-tamer in the circus ring is an Si experience. Don't over-analyze or personalize, they're just pictures.

I understand what you're saying. What I was asking for is why. i.e., what is your rationale?

 

[Mal12345]

OMG I love this thread! Thanks for making it, @mal1234

So many questions about Si Vs Se....

I, too, have read somewhere that the difference between the introverted and extroverted functions within one dichotomy is that the introverted functions are more intense, and the extroverted ones are more varied, yet when it comes describing Si, all anyone on this forum ever says about it is that it has to do with remembering details especially of past events. As if Si is the only function responsible for detailed memory, and more importantly that Si basically LIVES in the past. I'm unclear on this. What are your thoughts on that, mal?

It's because of all the function talk that goes on around here, that has more to do with thinking methods than behaviors or personalities. It is raised to such a level of abstractedness as to lose all touch with reality. But it still can't compete with Jung's, whose description of the introverted (or subjective) sensing type is completely obscure.

The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing
the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie
aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

A million-year old consciousness?

There is a little personality description in Jung's portrait of the introverted sensor:
"He may actually stand out by the very calmness and passivity of his demeanour, or by his rational self-control. This
peculiarity, which often leads the superficial judgment astray, is really due to his unrelatedness to objects."

And -
"the individual readily becomes a victim to the aggressiveness and ambitions of others. Such men allow themselves to be abused, for which they usually take vengeance at the most unsuitable occasions with redoubled stubbornness and resistance."

Jung doesn't talk about the Si living in accordance with the past. So I take it some other theorist along the way decided that was the case.

And the pictures were great! That helped.
What is this though?
Si

A witch silhouette. Are you asking why a witch silhouette? It goes along with the Se image just above that of two people shouting at each other. I try to put a single individual in the introverted pictures, even if some introverts themselves may have strong social needs. (Each race car driver is on his own.) The images are archetypal and not literal. But I'm curious to know, from your ISFJ perspective, what do you think is going on in that picture?

 

[Thalassa]

Well I do love the swings at the fair and arguing people, and am bored to death by Nascar....lol.

I get the Nascar thing even though surely many Si users don't like Nascar...it's the idea of watching a steady race around and around a track...that's why it bores me silly...

The only sport I like is baseball. But my ISTJ said Nascar isn't a sport, anyway.

 

[Thalassa]

This actually reminds me also of the conversation I had with the ISTJ about Si vs. Se sports:

Si - golf, tennis, ballet

Se - Xtreme sports, skate boarding, football

Si sports require exquisite precision and patience was the rationale.

 

[chickpea]

i feel like you don't really understand the difference between introverted vs extroverted functions, it doesnt really have anything to do with being alone or in a group.

 

[Thalassa]

So something like listening to song for the nostalgic purpose of remembering the intensity of the memory you relate it to be an example of an Si experience? And also smelling a particular smell that you haven't smelled in a long time and having nostalgic memories of when you last smelled it? I know that sounds weird, but those are two things that I do.

Arrgh I got this confused for a long time myself...apparently this is connected to Fi...Si isn't just memory or nostalgia, that's too simplified because you can have a great memory and not be an Si type.

 

[Mal12345]

i feel like you don't really understand the difference between introverted vs extroverted functions, it doesnt really have anything to do with being alone or in a group.

You don't understand the difference between literal and archetypal. You smoking too much dope lately.

 

[chickpea]

You don't understand the difference between literal and archetypal. You smoking too much dope lately.

nah, maybe if i was i'd understand how si = silhouette of a witch. but i don't think there are enough drugs in the world.

 

[Mal12345]

nah, maybe if i was i'd understand how si = silhouette of a witch. but i don't think there are enough drugs in the world.

Then you like the other Si pics?

 

[Thalassa]

nah, maybe if i was i'd understand how si = silhouette of a witch. but i don't think there are enough drugs in the world.

I don't understand the witch, either.

Is it focusing intention?

 

[nanook]

introverted perception is to use an object, to anker something subjective in it. the subjective thing does not have to be personal and it does not have to be unreal. (but it is often. it could be ethnocentric, or human .... subjective)

to anker a state of mind or being into a symbol is indeed one possible version of introverdet perception.
so when cinnamon reminds you of christmas, this is a normal memory, and you could indulge in it often for emotional resons (navigated by cognitive Fi), but once you begin to paint an image, using cinnamon instead of brown color, because your image is about the birth of christ and the depicted religious image feels more alive to you, when painted with cinnamon, then this is an example of introverted perception.

another example is carrying around a toygun, not larger than a piece of money (ie playmobile), not intending to practically play with it, not to remind you of either playmobile or childhood, but to evoke the feeling of being like a cowboy, which also coincidentally happens to be a memory, since you learned about the cowboy feeling in movies, which you have seen in the past.

it is subjective!!! you may carry around a toygun for any other amount of reasons, same for using a spice in a painting


to subjectively anker a sense of greateness or decay or evolution of society or being a servant (what ever you want) in an item like an uniform may also be Pi

the difference between Pi and what everybody else does, when they are using symbolic ankering, is that Pi is verry conscious and individualized about what somethign means to them, while other people mostly addopt the common sense symbolism, and dont give much thought to it. to most people a unifrom is stricktly about bein a member of the military, nothing else, exept they may have personal feelings about what it means to be a member. the Pi user does not have to be a member, he may wish to wear a uniform for subjective reasons, even when he does not even theoretically like to be a member. it may be pure irony to him. obviosly many fashion trends (like punk) are invented by Pi (and imitated by Pe). the Pi user feels alienated and de-personalized, if his subjective symbolizm is taken away/argued/misunderstood, because he fears loosing himself, loosing touch with the motives of his soul. or, of collective soul. because, as i said, subjective does not have to be personal.

 

[chickpea]

Then you like the other Si pics?

i'd associate both of those with se, they're people connecting with the environment through thrill-seeking activities.

 

[Uytuun]

Se(Ni)?

[YOUTUBE="CFWX0hWCbng"]Blow - Kesha[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE="T-sxSd1uwoU"]I Wanna Go - Britney[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Thalassa]

LOL she's so Se/Fi. I don't understand why anyone would think she's SFJ. I have a soft spot for Britney. It's not her fault she's bipolar.

 

[Santosha]

introverted perception is to use an object, to anker something subjective in it. the subjective thing does not have to be personal and it does not have to be unreal.

to anker a state of mind or being into a symbol is indeed one possible version of introverdet perception.
so when cinnamon reminds you of christmas, this is a normal memory, and you could indulge in it often for emotional resons (navigated by cognitive Fi), but once you begin to paint an image, using cinnamon instead of brown color, because your image is about the birth of christ and the depicted religious image feels more alive to you, when painted with cinnamon, then this is an example of introverted perception.

another example is carrying around a toygun, not larger than a piece of money (ie playmobile), not intending to practically play with it, not to remind you of either playmobile or childhood, but to evoke the feeling of being like a cowboy, which also coincidentally happens to be a memory, since you learned about the cowboy feeling in movies, which you have seen in the past.

it is subjective!!! you may carry around a toygun for any other amount of reasons, same for using a spice in a painting


to subjectively anker a sense of greateness or decay or evolution of society or being a servant (what ever you want) in an item like an uniform may also be Pi

the difference between Pi and what everybody else does, when they are using symbolic ankering, is that Pi is verry conscious and individualized about what somethign means to them, while other people mostly addopt the common sense symbolism, and dont give much thought to it. to most people a unifrom is stricktly about bein a member of the military, nothing else, exept they may have personal feelings about what it means to be a member. the Pi user does not have to be a member, he may wish to wear a uniform for subjective reasons, even when he does not even theoretically like to be a member. it may be pure irony to him. obviosly many fashion trends (like punk) are based on Pi. the Pi user feels alienated and de-personalized, if his subjective symbolizm is taken away/argued/misunderstood, because he fears loosing himself, loosing touch with the motives of his soul. or, of collective soul. because, as i said, subjective does not have to be personal.

This is very interesting. But how can you distingish Extroverted intuitive perceivers from Introverted perceivers when Ne connects metaphors or symbolism, isn't this almost always rooted in some subjectivity? Or would you say that Ne's symbolism and metaphor is more universally and objectivley expressed? Can you give me an example of objective intuition vs subjective intutiion?

(Didn't mean to derail- PM me if you'd like)

 

[Uytuun]

I have a soft spot for Britney.

Me too. And I love the ending of that video. I like Kesha's as well...ridiculous fun, the enthusiastic (!) lack of subtlety paired with some form of ironical outlandishness.

Was talking about the videos more than the performers though, in so far as you can separate those two.

 

[nanook]

Pi

dont forgett, its allways about how you see it, not about the image. so what you see when you look at this image may be something else than Pi.
but when an individual goes to great length, to indulge intro expression of himself, by mixing styles in a way, that is cryptically symbolic (only makes sense to him) then its not far fetched, to assume that the motivation is Pi.

 

[Thalassa]

I LOVE MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE. And yes, I'm a grown woman.

Do you think this picture is Se/Ni?

 

[nanook]

im not going to say much about Ne because i dont want to argue with Ne users and i am not an Ne user myself, but Ne is about interaction and relation (of anything, including symbolic stuff), its not so much about representing something or indulging in something that is sort of static or repetitive (like Pi), as it is about relating (and Ti inserts the creative inventor spirit).

Pi is attracted to states (conditions) and to the nature of units, it's about mono-themes like texture or vibrance, or frequence, or growth, or intrinsic explosion/expansion or figures, postures, transformations, always centering around units, the unit may be an individual or abstract: humanity or anything.

Pe is attracted to themes of interaction. push pull, deformation, about explosive mixtures, or relations like "paper stone scissors". a symbol like a uniform may more likely be taken to mean: "i am a comrade of my fellow men, and i am a force of defese to my country" both being themes of interaction/relation.

instead of "i am a heroic figure, and my choir represents the freedom of the US" which would be centered around themes of single units, character of self and nation. this interpretation of a unifrom would be closer to Pi.

 

[nanook]

the artist behind the image is called neil krug sing, i am not saying more about the image, than that it totally resonates with my Pi. i am not even interested in differenciating Ni Si right now. the subjective movement of perception is more interesting, in general. i could imagine, that the image depicts Ni/Se(shadow) better/more likely than Si/Ne(shadow), but i am just imagininig ...

i don't know chemical romance, but i think their style screams Pi too.