New INTJ Portrait, Please Critique

[Blackwater]

I wrote an INTJ portrait because I was gettting sick of the existing portraits. I'm going to do this with all types, and I'm going to pick on my own the most. I am interested in psychodynamics and therefore, a lot of my portraits will have an eye for the more sinister sides of each type. But ultimately I mean well and besides, all of the existing portraits are this orgies of praise so its not like the good sides go unnoticed. But still, maybe its crap, let me know and tell me how to improve

<<content removed>>

 

[Asterion]

wraith-like

 

[InvisibleJim]

I like this description

APPROVED

 

[VeniVidiVici]

i like it. I can't think of anything to add to it.

 

[Blackwater]

people praising something on TypC :-o
This can't go on for long!

seriously though thanks you guys

 

[bionic]

Jodie Foster isn't an INTJ and Aryn Rand is ENTJ. Don't know about Nietzsche. Stanley Kubrick is a great representation of an INTJ though.

This is a lengthy read, I'll have to read more later. I like what I've read so far.

 

[Blackwater]

jodie foster, i wouldnt know, for her, i rely on typings produced here on TypC and elsewhere
rand, you're pretty much the only peron in the world who thinks shes not INTJ - but of course, that doesn't mean you cant be right. it just means you need to argue for it

 

[Sparrow]

jodie foster, i wouldnt know, for her, i rely on typings produced here on TypC and elsewhere
rand, you're pretty much the only peron in the world who thinks shes not INTJ - but of course, that doesn't mean you cant be right. it just means you need to argue for it

I have seen Jodie Foster's name on a few rosters typed as ENFJ.

[YOUTUBE="THN3ObYNuwU"]Jodie Foster Interview[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Zarathustra]

I haven't even read the whole thing yet, just skimmed and read the top and bottom parts, and here's my initial intuition: I understand the desire to make more balanced portraits, as many of the online portraits are just glowing reviews of every type, but I do think that throwing out almost random positives and negatives about a type, in order to try to attain that balance, also ends up presenting a distorted picture, and one that might be just as distorted as the portraits that are all positive and gushy.

The problem is: the description might not actually describe any actual individual of that type. Some people of that type will have some of the positives, some people will have some of the negatives, but no one person might actually have the specific positives and negatives that happen to have been included in the portrait.

I think a different approach altogether would be more appropriate: to basically include the most salient qualities possible, and to do so in a manner that accentuates that these qualities are just possibilities or potentials, not necessities.

Such an approach would go a long way in getting rid of the myth that type and/or functions determine behavior, and do much in good in clarifying the truth that type and/or functions would more accurately be seen as mechanisms through which we perceive and evaluate reality (after which behavior comes into play).

*now on to actually reading the (full) portrait*

 

[The Ü™]

Kubrick was probably a Crafter Artisan. There's a difference between a person and the person's movies. Of course, most of his movies reflect a Crafter Artisan personality. Notable exception being 2001.

 

[bionic]

jodie foster, i wouldnt know, for her, i rely on typings produced here on TypC and elsewhere
rand, you're pretty much the only peron in the world who thinks shes not INTJ - but of course, that doesn't mean you cant be right. it just means you need to argue for it

Well that's an insufficient point. Have you met everyone in the world with a knowledge of typology?

Kubrick was probably a Crafter Artisan. There's a difference between a person and the person's movies. Of course, most of his movies reflect a Crafter Artisan personality. Notable exception being 2001.

Good point about the different of a person and person's work. That's a point that should transpire across the typology field.

Unfortunately, your point was already killed by the argument of "most of his movies reflect a Crafter Artisan personality" versus "Kubrick was probably a Crafter Artisan. There's a difference between a person and the person's movies." Are you saying, based upon his work, that Kubrick reflects a Crafter Artisan personality therefore he's most likely to be one? If this is your point, then the absolution of "There's a difference between a person and person's movies." would be null and void.

I'm also more perplexed by most people on the site typing others based upon the Kiersey system than knowledge of the cognitive functions.

 

[Zarathustra]

Jodie Foster isn't an INTJ...

I'm not so sure about that.

I'm not so sure she is either, though.

I've seen that typing in a number of places, and watched two of her movies recently (one from the 80s, and 'Silence of the Lambs'). Her character from the latter is usually typed as INTJ, and I think that's a reasonable typing, which may contribute to people falsely typing her as INTJ.

But those typings also made me take a second look, and I'm not so sure she is not one. When you watch her act (and even live), she has an awkwardness about her that wouldn't seem incongruent with her being an INTJ. I could see inferior Se leading her to have her famous anxiety about "the world" (I believe she's an admitted panophobic) as well as her sort of awkwardness and clumsiness at acting (trust me, it's there, just watch her closely) could easily be seen as someone who's not a "natural" actor (i.e., like we might expect from someone with a better attunement with their immediate environment, like an Se-dom).

I dunno, it's all just speculation.

I just think it's a bit excessive to declare that she definitely is not...

...and Aryn Rand is ENTJ.

That's an interesting thought.

I can't fucking stand her or her philosophy for the most part, and it curls my toes when she is typed as an INTJ -- something always seems just a little bit off to me... I have no doubt that she's an NTJ, and INTJ is thus not far off, but I suppose she could be an extrovert.

Would explain why her philosophy is more or less a piss-poor, dumbed-down version of Nietzsche, anyway.

Don't know about Nietzsche.

Probably the most certain INTJ in all of history.

Stanley Kubrick is a great representation of an INTJ though.

Agreed.

rand, you're pretty much the only peron in the world who thinks shes not INTJ - but of course, that doesn't mean you cant be right. it just means you need to argue for it

I'll throw my support behind the possibility that she's right.

Rand just seems too certain about the veracity of her philosophy to be an Ni-dom -- we leave more wiggle room for ourselves.

I mean, Nietzsche's Perspectivism = Ni and Rand's Objectivism = Te seems to fit rather nicely, if you ask me...

Kubrick was probably a Crafter Artisan. There's a difference between a person and the person's movies.

Kubrick, ISTP?

Hmm...

Maybe, but I'm gunna have to disagree with you on that one...

Perhaps these are the diatribes of a man in a Ti+Ni dominant loop, but they sound more like the mutterings of an Ni-dom to me:

Perhaps there is a certain element of the lumpen literati that is so dogmatically atheist and materialist and Earth-bound that it finds the grandeur of space and the myriad mysteries of cosmic intelligence anathema.

2001 would give a little insight into my metaphysical interests... I'd be very surprised if the universe wasn't full of an intelligence of an order that to us would seem God-like. I find it very exciting to have a semi-logical belief that there's a great deal to the universe we don't understand, and that there is an intelligence of an incredible magnitude outside the Earth. It's something I've become more and more interested in. I find it a very exciting and satisfying hope.

I will say that the God concept is at the heart of 2001 but not any traditional, anthropomorphic image of God. I don't believe in any of Earth's monotheistic religions, but I do believe that one can construct an intriguing scientific definition of God, once you accept the fact that there are approximately 100 billion stars in our galaxy alone, that each star is a life-giving sun and that there are approximately 100 billion galaxies in just the visible universe. Given a planet in a stable orbit, not too hot and not too cold, and given a few billion years of chance chemical reactions created by the interaction of a sun's energy on the planet's chemicals, it's fairly certain that life in one form or another will eventually emerge. It's reasonable to assume that there must be, in fact, countless billions of such planets where biological life has arisen, and the odds of some proportion of such life developing intelligence are high. Now, the sun is by no means an old star, and its planets are mere children in cosmic age, so it seems likely that there are billions of planets in the universe not only where intelligent life is on a lower scale than man but other billions where it is approximately equal and others still where it is hundreds of thousands of millions of years in advance of us. When you think of the giant technological strides that man has made in a few millennia—less than a microsecond in the chronology of the universe—can you imagine the evolutionary development that much older life forms have taken? They may have progressed from biological species, which are fragile shells for the mind at best, into immortal machine entities—and then, over innumerable eons, they could emerge from the chrysalis of matter transformed into beings of pure energy and spirit. Their potentialities would be limitless and their intelligence ungraspable by humans.

I can't get a solid read of whether Te or Ti is more present here, but his writing is rather detailed, lengthy, and precise, which could be an indicator that he's actually a Ti-user... I usually don't think of ISTPs as having such extremely lofty Ni-styled imaginations and leanings, though -- they're usually so bound in realism due to aux Se -- so, unless he's an ISTP with particularly strongly developed Ni, I'd say he's probably an Ni-dom; perhaps even an anti-social INFJ? Ni+Ti dom loop would make more sense, in my opinion, based on the (highly demonstrative) quotes above... But then there's the Fi vs Fe question... I don't know enough about him to make a good call on that... I've only watched his movies and read his (lengthy) wikipedia page.

 

[five]

Jodie Foster isn't an INTJ and Aryn Rand is ENTJ. Don't know about Nietzsche. Stanley Kubrick is a great representation of an INTJ though.

This is a lengthy read, I'll have to read more later. I like what I've read so far.

Anyone who thinks Jodie Foster is an INTJ, is an idiot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodie_Foster

Yes, studied literature, and acted all her life. Wow, what a Mastermind! WTF.

Yes I'm annoyed, I see so much mistyping going on it makes me . Why do I care? Because I use the MBTI in my business and inexperienced people go around associating me with these people it just fucks up the utility of the system. I spend more time explaining how x or y is not like my type and it erodes confidence in the system. I want to be understood, its difficult communicating if we don't have a shared language. I have found massive power in Jungian theory, but everyone needs to be on the same page. and speak the language. It doesn't work if you have people mistyping all over the show and trying to "Balance" everything, (looks at Blackwater). That is your Fe and Ti controlling your thinking. It's weak.

People constantly forget how rare an INTJ female is, and what they look like. They are the most statistically improbable type to exists. Fact. Go look it up.

http://www.theanconas.com/MBTI/mfstats.htm

I thought I had found one, a boring as fuck girl that went to school with me, she is now a nuclear physicist, doing a boring PHD and CERN (though hell of a lot more interesting than studying literature). And no she is not an INTJ, she is a statistically less female role and certainly a much more likely candidate for INTJ than some of these ridiculous assertions, but even then, it turns out she is ISTJ.

Now here is the kicker: is it possible to get a outspoken flamboyant movie star INTJ? Almost certainly not, but yet it's still possible. Just like there is almost certainly no such thing as a God (personal omnipotent being), but the possibility is not absolute zero. But so unlikely that it is, you better have HUGE amount of evidence to back it up. The burden on proof would be on YOU to show how on earth such an oddity has occurred. Eg, they are being forced to act like an ESFP or doing it for some other purpose etc? Can INTJ's be in the movie business? Sure, but then they going to be doing what INTJ's do. Masterminding. It's speculated that Howard Hughes was one. Actors and Directors are pawns in the system, the producers make it happen.

*rant over*

 

[Blackwater]

so female INTJs are like god. wow.

 

[Zarathustra]

[unhealthy rant]

Wow. Now there's some unhealthy INTJ behavior if I've ever seen it.

Blackwater, your whole thing about "blind spots" and "not checking in with the facts" seems to be more fitting by the second...

Yes, studied literature, and acted all her life. Wow, what a Mastermind! WTF.

Since when were INTJs not allowed to study literature?

I studied economics and rhetoric (very literature/philosophy-based) in college.

I believe Nicodemus, another INTJ on this site, studied literature (if not, he's very interested in it).

Friedrich Nietzsche, the most obvious INTJ of all, was a fucking PHILOLOGY professor.

Jean-Paul Sartre, almost certainly an INTJ, won the FUCKING NOBEL PRIZE IN LITERATURE.

It looks like someone skipped most of the reading in her typology (and literature) classes...

People constantly forget how rare an INTJ female is, and what they look like. They are the most statistically improbable type to exists. Fact. Go look it up.

Yes, everyone knows this.

Want a cookie?

Now here is the kicker: is it possible to get a outspoken flamboyant movie star INTJ? Almost certainly not, but yet it's still possible. Just like there is almost certainly no such thing as a God (personal omnipotent being), but the possibility is not absolute zero. But so unlikely that it is, you better have HUGE amount of evidence to back it up. The burden on proof would be on YOU to show how on earth such an oddity has occurred. Eg, they are being forced to act like an ESFP or doing it for some other purpose etc?

How about being pushed into being a child actor by one's parent at a very young age, not by one's own choice? Facts: Jodie Foster made her acting debut in a Coppertone Suntan Lotion commercial when she was 3 years old. Her first movie role was when she was 5. Check.

How about experiencing stardom at a very young age, having it more or less thrust upon you? Facts: Her breakout role was playing a child prostitute in 'Taxi Driver', when she was 13. Primarily because of that role, she's ranked #4 on VH1's list of the "100 Greatest Kid Stars". Check.

How about she shows herself to be far smarter than most of her peers in the industry? Facts: Jodie Foster was reading by the time she was three years old. She graduated in 1980 as the class valedictorian from the (highly prestigious) private academy Lycée Français in Los Angeles. Check.

How about, as she got older, developed her own voice, and became independent, she realized she's really not the typical, limelight-loving Hollywood actress? Well, let's see what Ms. Foster has to say:

It's not my personality to be extroverted emotionally, so acting has been helpful to me.

Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from.

Acting, for me, is exhausting. I'm always more energized by directing. It's more intense to direct. I can pop in and express myself, then pop out again. It's a huge passion for me.

I think we can safely call that a Check.

How about just plain old aspirational Se as an explanation, on top of having her acting career more or less forced upon her? Well, if she is an INTJ: then Check.

Can INTJ's be in the movie business? Sure, but then they going to be doing what INTJ's do. Masterminding. It's speculated that Howard Hughes was one. Actors and Directors are pawns in the system, the producers make it happen.

Jodie Foster's Production Credits:
The Brave One (executive producer) - 2007
The Dangerous Lives of Altar Boys (producer) - 2002
Waking the Dead (executive producer) - 2000
The Baby Dance (TV movie) (executive producer) - 1998
Home for the Holidays (producer) - 1995
Nell (producer) - 1994
My Letter to George (co-producer) - 1996

Not to mention the fact that it's ridiculous to say that being a Director is not an INTJesque thing to do. There are tons of (I)NTJ directors. I know several personally.

*rant over*

Honestly, get a better grasp of typology and get your facts straight next time so your INTJ panties don't get all in a bunch and cause you to spew vitriolic nonsense on the rest of us.

 

[sculpting]

[quote removed at author's request]

You need to give the INTJ about a three day window to redigest new information. If the info is concrete and data based, it is difficult for them to deny, thus, you can modify their mindset. I also find getting really irate and yelling "NOT EVERYBODY LIKES TO SEARCH USING KEYWORDS!" seems to permeate the wall as well. I suppose the INTJ seeks simply to avoid the obviously insane person in front of them, by hesitating slightly, looking for a quick escape route-in that narrow window of time, before they make it out the door, you can insert new ideas. Also twirling through their office, big giant smiles filled with goo, singing and dancing, gushing over how adorable their kids are, and giving them hugs, also totally knocks them off-kilter, again allowing a strategic opening. It has to be real though, cause if it isnt real idiotic behaviors, it's ineffective.

[quote removed at author's request]

INTJs love to have someone critique the idea, but you'd better be right. You also need the balls to stand up and be direct with none of that bullshit, whiny pussy footing around nonsense. Be prepared to get grilled. Also, to deal with an emotional issue, they just need to be informed of the issue, as often they cant see it. Once they know, if you can convince them the "best" answer is reached by not mauling other humans, they are quite willing to listen. They need someone to stand up and very energetically point out the human aspect of the issue. I suppose this is "standing up for what is right" form a value perspective-sometimes the value aspect doesnt occur to them as they think, but they almost always have a strong core sense of integrity.

[quote removed at author's request]

1-this narcissism is partially due to social unawareness. Many just dont get social gestures, thus learn them in a formulaic way. I see people interrept this incorrectly, rather than simply shy introversion, it is seen as arrogant snobbery, which is incorrect. A SERIOUS flaw can occur if they surround themselves with people who fawn upon them without calling them on their shit-aka flaws in the Ni vision. Eventually the few people who try to call them out will be seen as troublemakers and the ones that remain just keep burying their heads deeper in the INTJ's ass. The vision cycles to shit at this point without good Te data to reorient upon.

2-Many admit they do this and are actually confused by the angst in others. they feel the "idea" is the combination of tangentials they have gathered over time-the resynthesis into something new. They forget where the tangentials come from-aka other people. In industry I note older INTJs have learned to note carefully to credit people in a very obvious way, likely as a result of this.

 

[Economica]

Wow. Now there's some unhealthy INTJ behavior if I've ever seen it.

...

Honestly, get a better grasp of typology and get your facts straight next time so your INTJ panties don't get all in a bunch and cause you to spew vitriolic nonsense on the rest of us.

+1000. *hands dhampyr stick with pride to Zarathustra*

[That was supposed to be a link to post #72 in my blog.]

five, thanks for providing a timely and vivid illustration of the negative sides of the (immature) INTJ in this thread about Blackwater's new portrait of same. I couldn't have concocted a better parody myself.

---

Orobas, you make several good points! This one is quoted for importance:

A SERIOUS flaw can occur if they surround themselves with people who fawn upon them without calling them on their shit-aka flaws in the Ni vision. Eventually the few people who try to call them out will be seen as troublemakers and the ones that remain just keep burying their heads deeper in the INTJ's ass. The vision cycles to shit at this point without good Te data to reorient upon.

Fact: I once wrote off a friend who was benevolently trying to call me out by labeling him with borderline personality disorder. Got a few mutual friends to seriously consider the possibility, too.

 

[five]

Wow. Now there's some unhealthy INTJ behavior if I've ever seen it.

Blackwater, your whole thing about "blind spots" and "not checking in with the facts" seems to be more fitting by the second...



Since when were INTJs not allowed to study literature?

I studied economics and rhetoric (very literature/philosophy-based) in college.

I believe Nicodemus, another INTJ on this site, studied literature (if not, he's very interested in it).

Friedrich Nietzsche, the most obvious INTJ of all, was a fucking PHILOLOGY professor.

Jean-Paul Sartre, almost certainly an INTJ, won the FUCKING NOBEL PRIZE IN LITERATURE.

It looks like someone skipped most of the reading in her typology (and literature) classes...



Yes, everyone knows this.

Want a cookie?





How about being pushed into being a child actor by one's parent at a very young age, not by one's own choice? Facts: Jodie Foster made her acting debut in a Coppertone Suntan Lotion commercial when she was 3 years old. Her first movie role was when she was 5. Check.

How about experiencing stardom at a very young age, having it more or less thrust upon you? Facts: Her breakout role was playing a child prostitute in 'Taxi Driver', when she was 13. Primarily because of that role, she's ranked #4 on VH1's list of the "100 Greatest Kid Stars". Check.

How about she shows herself to be far smarter than most of her peers in the industry? Facts: Jodie Foster was reading by the time she was three years old. She graduated in 1980 as the class valedictorian from the (highly prestigious) private academy Lycée Français in Los Angeles. Check.

How about, as she got older, developed her own voice, and became independent, she realized she's really not the typical, limelight-loving Hollywood actress? Well, let's see what Ms. Foster has to say:





I think we can safely call that a Check.

How about just plain old aspirational Se as an explanation, on top of having her acting career more or less forced upon her? Well, if she is an INTJ: then Check.



Jodie Foster's Production Credits:
The Brave One (executive producer) - 2007
The Dangerous Lives of Altar Boys (producer) - 2002
Waking the Dead (executive producer) - 2000
The Baby Dance (TV movie) (executive producer) - 1998
Home for the Holidays (producer) - 1995
Nell (producer) - 1994
My Letter to George (co-producer) - 1996

Not to mention the fact that it's ridiculous to say that being a Director is not an INTJesque thing to do. There are tons of (I)NTJ directors. I know several personally.



Honestly, get a better grasp of typology and get your facts straight next time so your INTJ panties don't get all in a bunch and cause you to spew vitriolic nonsense on the rest of us.

Great post thanks!

Also it would be unwise to confuse immaturity for passion.

I'll give it some thought though, if anything you have presented enough evidence to consider Jodie Foster an interesting case. And you spot on, about making cursory judgements, NiTe is all about that, Time/money efficiency blah blah.

I'll investigate more and revert when I have a bit of time! I am perfectly willing to admit it if it turns out I'm wrong, and would in fact be delighted if this was so.

 

[five]

Jodie Foster is an INFP

 

[Zarathustra]

Jodie Foster is an INFP

Perhaps...

But I think you need to learn to qualify your claims.