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Type my son

R

ReflecTcelfeR

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Hi Jim,

Could you go into further detail in regards to this? What do you mean by "hypersensitivity"?

Thanks!

I feel like he means over-stimulation. Or that INxJ's can easily become over-stimulated because of how sensitive they are to immediate stimuli.
 

Mal12345

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Hypersensitivity is a trait of the introverts who have Se in the inferior position only aka INTJ or INFJ (in theory). This provides causation for hypersensitivity.

An ISTP would be Ne sensitive. I've seen ISTPs blow up when an ENTP comes along and starts throwing ideas about which they can't reconcile. An entirely different phenomenon.

Then I'd say you have a strange idea of causality. There is no thing affecting another thing to bring the idea of causality into play in the "inferior Se" explanation. If you want to bring in causes, then you should look to genetic and environmental factors.

And Introverts don't like to be overwhelmed with a barrage of information all at once, it doesn't matter what the information is or whose type it comes from:

http://www.theintrovertadvantage.com/SelfAssessment.pdf
"When I take in lots of information, it takes me awhile to sort it out." So I can understand the ISTP outburst. The INTPs will be similarly overwhelmed (which I am), but not likely to blow up over it because they respond differently to events than the ISTP.
 
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Anew Leaf

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I feel like he means over-stimulation. Or that INxJ's can easily become over-stimulated because of how sensitive they are to immediate stimuli.

I find it interesting in that I am very much like that at times and I am not an INxJ. Se stuff does overwhelm me.... especially Se function in overdrive.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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I think the key in this instance is "immediate". I think Si inferiors can just get as over-stimulated, it would just have to remind us of something extremely nostalgic rooted in our past.
 

Mal12345

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I think the key in this instance is "immediate". I think Si inferiors can just get as over-stimulated, it would just have to remind us of something extremely nostalgic rooted in our past.

The key idea in Si that leads to over-stimulation - or being overwhelmed in general - is the Introversion. S and N have nothing to do with it.
 

PeaceBaby

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Without a working definition of hypersensitivity, you are both talking circles around each other.

Neither of you are referring to any accepted dictionary-style definition:

hy·per·sen·si·tive   

1. excessively sensitive: to be hypersensitive to criticism.
2. allergic to a substance to which persons do not normally react.

Both of you seem to be alluding to HSP (highly sensitive person) traits, but aside from the "smells and noise" reference, neither of you has expanded nor provided references. Perhaps that would be a helpful aside and you can then either simply agree to disagree or understand the other's point and move on. Then, the thread will cease to be derailed over misinterpreted semantics.
 

Mal12345

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Without a working definition of hypersensitivity, you are both talking circles around each other.

Neither of you are referring to any accepted dictionary-style definition:

hy·per·sen·si·tive   

1. excessively sensitive: to be hypersensitive to criticism.
2. allergic to a substance to which persons do not normally react.

Both of you seem to be alluding to HSP (highly sensitive person) traits, but aside from the "smells and noise" reference, neither of you has expanded nor provided references. Perhaps that would be a helpful aside and you can then either simply agree to disagree or understand the other's point and move on. Then, the thread will cease to be derailed over misinterpreted semantics.

I know that "hypersensitivity" is normally defined in emotional terms. I'm just going along with Jim's terminology. Does that count as agreeing to disagree? Also, I just referred it back to the OP comment that led to this.

The "hypersensitivity" concept refers back to the OP of this thread. He has a very strong reaction to smells and noise.
 
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ReflecTcelfeR

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The key idea in Si that leads to over-stimulation - or being overwhelmed in general - is the Introversion. S and N have nothing to do with it.

I think the placement is rather important. I will agree that introversion may have a large affect on how sensitive one is to stimuli, but you can't say that inferior sensing traits (that which deals directly with physical stimuli) has no effect on the person either.
 

Mal12345

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I think the placement is rather important. I will agree that introversion may have a large affect on how sensitive one is to stimuli, but you can't say that inferior sensing traits (that which deals directly with physical stimuli) has no effect on the person either.

What inferior sensing traits? And how do they affect a person?
 
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ReflecTcelfeR

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What inferior sensing traits? And how do they affect a person?

Having an inferior Se (INxJ) or Si (ENxP). They keep them from interacting with their physical external environment (unless it's tricky Ne). This would keep them in their own little shell, which they prefer. Once forced out with stimuli from their physical environment, if too much will cause them to figuratively "flip-their-shit" and cause them to introvert again. Yes. Introverted intuition is introverted and partly why they would, but the lack of willingness of an INTJ to interact with their physical environment because of intuition being dominant and sensing being inferior is the other half.
 

PeaceBaby

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I hear you mal12345, but hypersensitivity is most commonly a medical term.

Hypersensitivity:

Occasionally, the immune system responds inappropriately to the presence of antigen. These responses are refered to as hypersensitivities. There are four different types of hypersensitivities that result from different alterations of the immune system. These types are classified as:
Type I: Immediate Hypersensitivity
Type II: Cytotoxic Hypersensitivity
Type III: Immune Complex Hypersensitivity
Type IV: Delayed Hypersensitivity​

--Source: http://www.cehs.siu.edu/fix/medmicro/hyper.htm


So what do you both mean as "hypersensitive?"

Here's a possible HSP list:

Common characteristics include:

  • Needing alone time
  • Being very conscientious (sometimes to the point of being a perfectionist)
  • Having a heightened awareness of subtleties in their environment
  • Can become overwhelmed and need to “get away” to be by themselves seeking solitude, relief and comfort
  • May feel compelled to file and organize things and thoughts
  • Appreciate and enjoy simplicity and may become over stimulated and even immobilized by chaos, clutter or stress
  • Are very uncomfortable when feeling things are getting out of control
  • Have a deep, rich, inner life, are very spiritual, and experience vivid dreams
  • Are very intuitive and can usually sense if someone isn’t telling the truth or if something else is wrong
  • Become easily concerned and think or worry about things, and may have heard “You take things too personally,” “Why are you so touchy?” or “You’re too sensitive” throughout their life
  • May have also had the experience of “cutting people out” of their life
  • Are easily startled, and cautious in new situations
  • May have trouble sleeping
  • May be extra sensitive to pain
  • Don’t like crowds (unless they are kindred spirits)
  • Often avoid violent movies and TV shows to protect their finely tuned nervous system
  • Have a deep respect and appreciation of nature, music and art

--Source: http://www.genconnect.com/health/are-you-a-highly-sensitive-person/
 

PeaceBaby

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And are folks positing in this thread that primarily Si and Se inferior types are "HSP"? That's interesting, but I can't find any research to support that.

Plus anecdotally, I know plenty of "sensitive" individuals of many types, with Se or Si higher in function order. It may be more of an introverted tendency in general.
 
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Anew Leaf

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Thanks Peacebaby. What you say makes far more sense. And that is what I was asking about. A lot of the HSP traits sound like me.

:bunnyglee: :bunnyd:
 

uumlau

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And are folks positing in this thread that primarily Si and Se inferior types are "HSP"? That's interesting, but I can't find any research to support that.

Plus anecdotally, I know plenty of "sensitive" individuals of many types, with Se or Si aux. It may be more of an introverted tendency in general.

My ESFJ ex-wife is HSP. I am not.

I strongly doubt it has anything to do with type.
 

Mal12345

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Having an inferior Se (INxJ) or Si (ENxP). They keep them from interacting with their physical external environment (unless it's tricky Ne). This would keep them in their own little shell, which they prefer. Once forced out with stimuli from their physical environment, if too much will cause them to figuratively "flip-their-shit" and cause them to introvert again. Yes. Introverted intuition is introverted and partly why they would, but the lack of willingness of an INTJ to interact with their physical environment because of intuition being dominant and sensing being inferior is the other half.

That's a very reductive and deterministic explanation of psychological phenomena. And it goes along with Jim who didn't explain it very well.
But at least it is better (I guess) than Marmie pummeling me with deconstructionist post-modernism earlier on in this thread.

All I can say to you is that any notion of "cause" here has to be considered as figurative, and not literal, although the so-called "effects" are indeed literal (i.e., specific behaviors), and phenomenal. All this function talk should therefore be considered, not just figurative, but noumenal. It is to lay claim to the idea that something in the invisible, spiritual realm, that is not even a possible thought or feeling or other mental representation, can somehow affect the realm of concretes.
 

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My ESFJ ex-wife is HSP. I am not.

I strongly doubt it has anything to do with type.

Indeed. Interesting. And I haven't yet found any studies on type and HSP so I will keep searching.

Found this interesting paper though: http://cogprints.org/4738/1/Environ._Sensitivity_Paper_-_Seminars_Journal.pdf

While no single factor in a person’s background is likely
to distinguish him/her as “sensitive,” the author found
eight demographic or personality factors to be significant:
1. Being female;
2. Being a first-born or only child;
3. Being single;
4. Being ambidextrous;
5. Appraising oneself as an imaginative thinker;
6. Appraising oneself as introverted;
7. Recalling a plainly traumatic event— or series of
events—in childhood;
8. Asserting that one’s presence causes televisions,
lights, computers, etc to malfunction.​
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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It's predictable because it is in somewhat a stereotype, which is what cognitive functions are about. It's reductive for that same reason, as well as it is easier to explain and bridge the disagreement with an argument that simplifies it. Of course this world is full of anomalies and chance will take it's hold here better, but it doesn't really prove me wrong it just says that there are plenty of other possibilities that could occur, it just so happens that her son (Lily's) corresponds with this very concept, that's why we're defending it.

I'm a little confused on that last paragraph. I get what it's saying, but not so much what you're trying to prove.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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My ESFJ ex-wife is HSP. I am not.

I strongly doubt it has anything to do with type.

Hahaha, ohhhh... Pointless arguing. Let's hope we haven't wasted this time, though of course type may not affect it, but I would like to hear your thoughts on why.
 

Mal12345

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It's predictable because it is in somewhat a stereotype, which is what cognitive functions are about. It's reductive for that same reason, as well as it is easier to explain and bridge the disagreement with an argument that simplifies it. Of course this world is full of anomalies and chance will take it's hold here better, but it doesn't really prove me wrong it just says that there are plenty of other possibilities that could occur, it just so happens that her son (Lily's) corresponds with this very concept, that's why we're defending it.

I'm a little confused on that last paragraph. I get what it's saying, but not so much what you're trying to prove.

You pinpointed a major issue in your first paragraph - one cannot disprove it (nor can one prove it). Part and parcel of being a science - and science works from causality - is the idea of mutability. If your function notions can't be disproven, then that is not a mark in your favor, but a strike against function talk as rational and scientific. It supports dogmatism. (That's why I continually mention reductive determinism - the religion of modern science).

On the other hand, I have nothing against noumenal talk either, but its expressions are loaded down with subjective and figurative terms that can serve as ad hoc explanations only (for example, "You're such and such because you have inferior Se").

Introversion, on the other hand, is a plainly described psychological phenomenon that has a proven empirical basis requiring no ad hoc explanations.
 
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