Can any type be "Alpha male"/natural leaders?

[Valiant]

I've noticed that this seem to vary a lot.
You don't just find ENTJs and ENFJs in there...
I've seen ESTPs, ENTPs, ENTJs, ENFPs, ESFPs, ESTJs, ESFJs and a lot of isolated incidents with other types.
Hell i've even seen fairly alpha ISxPs. You know in that quiet cowboy way?

What do you think makes or breaks if someone is alpha or not?
Can any type be that alpha male natural leader that takes place in a room?

 

[skylights]

Hell i've even seen fairly alpha ISxPs. You know in that quiet cowboy way?

haha yes!

What do you think makes or breaks if someone is alpha or not?

in terms of making a leader, i think a lot of it is self-assurance, and efficacy. people look to people who appear to have their shit together.

and sometimes it's just willingness to be the leader... in a bizarre twist of events, i've become the "leader of the pack" for my old group of high school friends. i can't figure it out... i don't know why i would be a focal point, really. the best conclusion i've come to is that it's just because i'm the one who's willing to put in the legwork to gather everyone together. and perhaps that i've held a lot of leadership positions in school, so i default to that role. though i never really thought of myself as alpha by nature - and i prefer beta, all things considered - and you'd think my enneatype would contradict it, too... but here i am.


in terms of breaking it... i think one of the things that really breaks a leader is getting too full of themselves. some people just radiate "inflated head" from the get-go, and those people end up being free agents more than leaders, because others can tell and who would put trust in that? (and i don't mean that in an e3 way, i mean it more in a "i know everything" kind of way.) but others get that way eventually, after they've gained alpha status, and that's when they get stupid... they don't respect their leadership position anymore so they behave as if it doesn't matter... and things fall apart for them. you see it with politicians all the time. they stay on top of their game running for office, then they get comfy in office, then they get caught fucking their secretary in the fountain outside their office building in broad daylight and shit hits the fan.

in terms of smaller scenarios, like just in a room of people, i think it may easily depend on who has the strongest agenda, and who's willing to speak up first. there's this funny rule of thumb that in general if you appear to know what you're doing, people tend not to question you... so like enneagram 3s have a natural advantage there, they're experts at appearing... and then 8s of course may tend to be leaders if they want control more than anyone else wants it.

Can any type be that alpha male natural leader that takes place in a room?

yeah, i think so. even INFPs and ISFJs, notoriously gentle, have their situations in which they can be dominant. my ISFJ grandma rules the roost in her home. it's like unspoken discipline.

i also know an ENFJ 3 who is very alpha.

but the other question is... does every type want to be? i'm guessing E and J types have a greater drive to be in charge, in general.

 

[Lightyear]

I've noticed that this seem to vary a lot.
You don't just find ENTJs and ENFJs in there...
I've seen ESTPs, ENTPs, ENTJs, ENFPs, ESFPs, ESTJs, ESFJs and a lot of isolated incidents with other types.
Hell i've even seen fairly alpha ISxPs. You know in that quiet cowboy way?

What do you think makes or breaks if someone is alpha or not?
Can any type be that alpha male natural leader that takes place in a room?

From the types you have listed the leaders of the pack seem to be mainly extroverted Js or people whose primary function is Ne, the visionary types. Also ESTPs seem like the born leaders, the primary Se that knows how to take charge combined with the fearless T. That might explain why ISTPs are also attracted to leadership, they are the ESTPs' cool-headed cousins and stay calm and collected in the midst of trouble.

INFJs are also sometimes described as natural leaders (Ni vision of the future combined with people-skilled Fe and J that wants to get things done), I can see that though I personally only lead when no one else is around to do the job, I can get very bossy when stressed and am a much nicer human being when doing my own thing or following someone else's lead.

 

[Stanton Moore]

http://eqi.org/mgtpaper.htm

Any one can potentially lead. It's related to emotional intelligence.

 

[Evil Otter]

Followers wait for initiative.
Leaders just wait on followers.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Even as an INTJ, I've been a willing and even enthusiastic leader in lots of contexts. I think a factor that's being overlooked is confidence in your abilities to complete the specific task at hand. Some people are born leaders in any context, but people of non-traditional "leader" types can be effective and inspiring leaders for tasks within their sphere of ability and confidence.

 

[ThatGirl]

Depends are we talking alpha A or alpha B. There is a huge difference.


You guys didn't think you would get away with a thread on Alphas without that did you?

 

[Randomnity]

alpha male is NOT the same as a natural leader, even disregarding the inherent sexism.

So which one do you mean?

 

[kyuuei]

Anyone can lead, I believe this is true with everything I have. (Though, how well they lead, this is another story..)

However.. I don't think everyone is cut out for the alpha-male personality. Thank God. While I'm not sure about the rest of the world, we could use a little less of it in America. We're always one spilled-drink, shoe-scuff, or bumped shoulder away from nuclear warfare.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

alpha male is NOT the same as a natural leader, even disregarding the inherent sexism.

So which one do you mean?

This is the very first thing that came to mind when I read this thread.

 

[Jaguar]

I keep seeing a baboon in my head when I read, "Alpha male."

 

[Ginkgo]

alpha male is NOT the same as a natural leader, even disregarding the inherent sexism.

So which one do you mean?

Alpha males and females are determined by how the community sees them. It's a matter of recognition.

Natural leaders have a strong inherent potential to lead.

There is overlap between those two groups, especially a perceived overlap if you're part of the community who recognizes the "Alpha" as the cream of the crop.

But of course, it takes a person with a keen eye to see that I'm the real deal.

 

[CzeCze]

Anyone can lead, I believe this is true with everything I have. (Though, how well they lead, this is another story..)

However.. I don't think everyone is cut out for the alpha-male personality. Thank God. While I'm not sure about the rest of the world, we could use a little less of it in America. We're always one spilled-drink, shoe-scuff, or bumped shoulder away from nuclear warfare.

Iknorite?

I think the problem is people aspire too much to this idea of the 'alpha male' and it's both unrealistic and unnecessary. It's a myth of masculinity. And it's also just 1 extreme example of masculinity.

As far as leading, all personality types can and are leaders and generally people are leaders in certain areas of their life, not all. So you might be a boss at work but you are still harried and 'ball busted' at home (regardless of your gender ). Or you may be a respected leader in your church but not so much outside the church social realm.

Rather than say 'alpha male' I like the phrase 'like a boss!' First, it's way funnier. Second, I think it's more accurate to what people mean by 'leader'.

I just think about INTJs. INTJ's do not display typical 'alpha male' characteristics, but they are often "bosses" at work because they have expertise and can direct people.

With the popular social definition of 'alpha male' you pretty much have to be an extrovert.

Ummmmm...what else can I ramble here? Oh yeah "calm assertive". The alpha males in social packs in nature are generally pretty calm, why? Because they know you better kiss their ass. In dog and primate packs, lower ranking folks groom and fawn over the higher ranked folks.

I think though in terms of human society, people get really caught up in trying to be an alpha, which by definition, means that you are not one.

OOOH. That was deep. LOL I should stop replying to posts after my brain has turned to jelly...

 

[Ginkgo]

I would guess that many kings and emperors were not natural born leaders, yet they maintained a position of Alpha male because they were born into that role.

 

[ThatGirl]

Alright you guys made me do it.

There is alpha A and alpha B.

I compare these to the alpha orangutan and alpha chimpanzee.

The alpha A (orangutan) is born alpha. They even grow the cool little cheek pads to prove it. This represents itself in males as such. These men are confident, calm, and often completely independent. They operate outside of the group, and rarely have to compete for status. They are inclined, and dont compete for status, because their alphaness is inherent. They pick a woman and breed. These men smell like cookies (see posts regarding ESTP ex).

These men are usually tall, broad shouldered. They walk with a certain elegance. While maintaining masculinity they are also not scared to look like idiots. They joke around, may be the life of the party, but then retreat into their man cave for every day living. They do not need. They can support, they aren't chumps. They usually trust people because they have no reason not to. Outgoing and confident, their magnetism draws in a plethora of diverse types of women. They are rarely affected by this. Do not become pompous, or egotistical. They treat women with respect, and leave most women thinking the best of them, even if they love and leave. Did I mention, they smell like cookies.

Alpha B. The Chimpanzee alpha. In nature the chimpanzees have to compete for alpha status. Any male can attain it, though the next man can quickly take it if faster, better, louder, stronger. They tend to have something to prove. Because they are competing for their status. They are usually very lively, loud, energetic, and charismatic. They are also very insecure. They have known, or will know the experience of being beaten at their own game. See alpha A never plays the game, this is where they trump the alpha B. This insecurity can take two forms. Finding a social circle that maintains their superiority, or a self centered view for self preservation. This is the lesser alpha, though, alpha never the less.

Don't get me started into the betas. Lol!

Edit: I will also add that the majority of women who look for alphas encounter the alpha B, which is why they get a bad rep.

 

[Jaguar]

These men smell like cookies

 

[Ginkgo]

Alright you guys made me do it.

...These men smell like cookies (see posts regarding ESTP ex).

Don't get me started into the betas. Lol!

 

[wolfy]

I keep seeing a baboon in my head when I read, "Alpha male."

When I read the word baboon I see an ass in my head.

 

[ThatGirl]

Pheromones are a natural part of physical chemistry.

This is because we base scent off of inherent immunity (which is part of choosing the best male to breed with). At least that is what I read.

I'm sorry but my ESTP smelled sweet. Even if he ate junk, he smelled cookie like.

 

[Valiant]

TG, you smell like cookies.