Why Typing Should be through the Tertiary-Opposite (The Point of Least Resistance)

[InvisibleJim]

I'm always amused by type tests; because it isn't immediately obvious which archetypes embody any individual. However, what I've always noted is the absence of the tert-opposite from people of their type.

Therefore as a guide we should be looking for the lack of these while typing others and ourselves.

For example, as an INTJ, note my lack of Fe... my view of it goes from disdain at the least favourable to simply ignored at best.

 

[Totenkindly]

Interesting idea.

How does it measure up to opposites of other type functions?

(For example, does Fe-absence dominate over Ne, Ti, and Si absence in the INTJ? If not, how should we know which one is the teritary-opposite?)

 

[INTP]

you know its kinda hard to test a tert function from a person who havent developed it at all yet. when you ask something, its never 100% sure from what function the answer is coming. also its impossible to say from what position the function that answers is, but its usually one of the strongest functions, because strongest functions are the ones that are most likely used.

i dont think its a good idea to try to find lack of function usage when typing people irl, because some functions are pretty much impossible to notice. so if you look at lack of functions, there will be lack of function perceived that is actually being used. now ofc this can be used as a pointer towards a type, but there are many more efficient/reliable ways to type people irl. like think I-E, N-S, T-F, J-P and if you see like clear E and T, but not sure about S-N and J-P, then you start to look at what functions are used, for me its easier to figure out the orientation of functions, so i would be looking at J-P, by looking at Te-Ti, at this point its also good to look if there is signs of Fe, Fe would suggest towards ETP. lack of Fe shouldnt be thought as ETJ tho, because some ETP people just wont show or havent developed their Fe. and once the J-P is decided, lets say it was J, so the person is most likely an ETJ, now its easy to look at P function, because you are more certain it is I, so you just have Si-Ni to decide. but its important to be able to go back on your deductions, because if you cant match Si or Ni, it might be that the Te is coming from tert or auc function, and that would fuck up the whole type, or it might even start to look more like Se+Ti...

 

[InvisibleJim]

Interesting idea.

How does it measure up to opposites of other type functions?

(For example, does Fe-absence dominate over Ne, Ti, and Si absence in the INTJ? If not, how should we know which one is the teritary-opposite?)

Well, what I have noted is that individuals can understand/relate to the other functions; but they cannot relate to or at best choose to ignore their PoLR. It's a trickier business when their tert-opposite is not a J type function.

 

[Mal12345]

I'm always amused by type tests; because it isn't immediately obvious which archetypes embody any individual. However, what I've always noted is the absence of the tert-opposite from people of their type.

Therefore as a guide we should be looking for the lack of these while typing others and ourselves.

For example, as an INTJ, note my lack of Fe... my view of it goes from disdain at the least favourable to simply ignored at best.

You can find some of what you're talking about on the FD33.

13. Although I don't like it, I must admit that I can sometimes get
(A) moody and sentimental (t)
(B) stubborn and trite (f)
(C) too detailed and pedantic
(D) superstitious and somewhat flakey (s)

 

[cascadeco]

With myself, I think I brush off Si sorts of concerns as irrelevant/a waste of time much moreso than I slough off Te. I don't think I've ever been bothered by Te in others, actually. I find it quite acceptable/nice/understandable. On the other hand, I find Te-related things rather tiresome when *I'm* having to deal with them, and *I'm* having to go there. I consider it a chore as it's typically not on my radar or something I would normally have any need/desire to concern myself with.

I can agree with the concept of functions not in ones' dom-aux-tert-inf lineup being ones that are not valued a whole lot, and their absence can be quite telling in terms of being able to type someone. But which of the four lesser used ones (or actively rejected ones), I would think would be pretty individual and could vary within a type.

 

[Such Irony]

I'm always amused by type tests; because it isn't immediately obvious which archetypes embody any individual. However, what I've always noted is the absence of the tert-opposite from people of their type.

Therefore as a guide we should be looking for the lack of these while typing others and ourselves.

For example, as an INTJ, note my lack of Fe... my view of it goes from disdain at the least favourable to simply ignored at best.

Socionics theory seems to emphasize this and I think they are on to something. I'm an INTP in MBTI and an INTj in socionics. With both systems, the top two functions are Ti Ne.

My tertiary-opposite is Se and I know that is my weakest function. Weaker than Fe (my inferior function according to MBTI) even. Actually I think my Fe is reasonably good for an INTP even though function tests seem to suggest otherwise.

 

[KDude]

PoLR is an interesting idea that should be brought up more in MBTI, although I myself am confused on whether I am more Ti PoLR or Se PoLR. They both somewhat fit me. In Socionics terms, where it's brought up more, I self-type as EII-Ne, but some who are more familiar with it thought I should consider IEE. If I'm really Ne leading, then it'd be remarkable how much I've reneged on that role for a great deal of my life (perhaps that's because I actually am Se polr).

I've self-typed as MBTI ISFP before, but it's more like a preference for Si (in the Jungian sense).

 

[KDude]

you know its kinda hard to test a tert function from a person who havent developed it at all yet.

Interesting point in my case (and perhaps yours), where Si tends to requires some sense of familiarity. I know it's developed, more or less, but put me somewhere new, where I'm expected to rely more on Se, where I don't have a good impression about something, and it's like reinventing the wheel a bit. Tertiary seems undeveloped in that case.

One minor case in point was a couple of days ago when I went to a clinic. It was newly built, kind of state of the art, with a lot of unfamiliar procedures and computer systems on how they directed people around the complex. It was kind of a double hit on both S and T. I wasn't sure how to get around or how any of it had worked (it turned out to be fairly simple in the end though). I even had a problem with simple things, like knowing where I had to stand in line in places. And after I had seen one doctor, she was kind of in a hurry after the appointment and redirected me to another area downstairs to the lab and pharmacy, and I was clueless there too. It gets frustrating. I always hide this kind of stuff, but I feel like a fool inside. I was with an ST who knows this about me, and he could deduce how everything worked quickly, and helped me out. The thing is, if I go back a second time, I'd probably be fine. Same goes with other environments.. Give me time and I'll start being smooth about it, or even creative. But I think it's because of weak Se and Ti. I'm either oblivious of things until after the fact or not improvisational in the same ways. They have a certain willfulness or a better gauge on things sensory wise.

I don't think just showing the example above is that dramatic of a difference, but it can all add up very differently, over a lifetime.

 

[NegativeZero]

This is a very good idea. My tertiary opposite is Se, and I AM SO BAD AT USING IT.

 

[Thalassa]

YES OMGZ MY Ti IS SO WEAK!!!

Sometimes when confronted with particularly long-winded INTPs (and the occasional long-winded, Ti-heavy INFJ) ...I am like, please get to the point, thank you? Do I really have to read the 86 paragraphs of precise language you just typed? Why do your emails sound like somone's philosophy dissertation?

*dies*

 

[/DG/]

I'm always amused by type tests; because it isn't immediately obvious which archetypes embody any individual. However, what I've always noted is the absence of the tert-opposite from people of their type.

Therefore as a guide we should be looking for the lack of these while typing others and ourselves.

For example, as an INTJ, note my lack of Fe... my view of it goes from disdain at the least favourable to simply ignored at best.

Erm... but let's say someone has no clue what their type is... how would you go about typing them in this fashion? And wouldn't it be the opposite of the fourth function that would be weakest, not the opposite of the third?

YES OMGZ MY Ti IS SO WEAK!!!

Sometimes when confronted with particularly long-winded INTPs (and the occasional long-winded, Ti-heavy INFJ) ...I am like, please get to the point, thank you? Do I really have to read the 86 paragraphs of precise language you just typed? Why do your emails sound like somone's philosophy dissertation?

*dies*

LOLOL

 

[Thalassa]

One of the things I've noticed though recently is that I have the power to take INTP convuluted academic speech and turn it into things which will be readable to the general populace. It's not that I don't understand it, it's just that I find it tiring and unnecessary. I swear I've gotten emails from INTPs where I really don't want to even try to read it, though I technically *could*. Same thing on the forum...I've noticed that Ti heavy posts meander around and fail to get to the point.

I guess Ne/Fi meanders around too but in a more feeling way. When it comes to thinking I adore Te. Te is direct, it is concise, it is powerful. I know it can't reach the depths of Ti, but I'd love to tell you again just how much Ti is not my strength. I remember reading this article on functions, asking which thing would you rather do....do external measurements of water, et al or do things like logic puzzles. That's when I very first realized what a problem with Ti I had...and it also helped me to be able to spot INTP writing, specifically, just like that. I'm not saying they're the only ones who do it, obviously other people have Ti, but it manifests in the most academic way there with them and sometimes INFJs.

 

[INTP]

Interesting point in my case (and perhaps yours), where Si tends to requires some sense of familiarity. I know it's developed, more or less, but put me somewhere new, where I'm expected to rely more on Se, where I don't have a good impression about something, and it's like reinventing the wheel a bit. Tertiary seems undeveloped in that case.

One minor case in point was a couple of days ago when I went to a clinic. It was newly built, kind of state of the art, with a lot of unfamiliar procedures and computer systems on how they directed people around the complex. It was kind of a double hit on both S and T. I wasn't sure how to get around or how any of it had worked (it turned out to be fairly simple in the end though). I even had a problem with simple things, like knowing where I had to stand in line in places. And after I had seen one doctor, she was kind of in a hurry after the appointment and redirected me to another area downstairs to the lab and pharmacy, and I was clueless there too. It gets frustrating. I always hide this kind of stuff, but I feel like a fool inside. I was with an ST who knows this about me, and he could deduce how everything worked quickly, and helped me out. The thing is, if I go back a second time, I'd probably be fine. Same goes with other environments.. Give me time and I'll start being smooth about it, or even creative. But I think it's because of weak Se and Ti. I'm either oblivious of things until after the fact or not improvisational in the same ways. They have a certain willfulness or a better gauge on things sensory wise.

I don't think just showing the example above is that dramatic of a difference, but it can all add up very differently, over a lifetime.

dunno how strong your Si is, but at least for me(i got pretty strong Si), Si is not just about things that require some sense of familiarity. i get really strong Si perceptions in new situations also at times, its kinda hard to explain, but its very similar when im remembering something and feel this sort of Si rush. dunno if you can relate but if im using Si as perceiving from the past, and something pops form it to my mind that that causes strong Si perception, its feels as strong as if that thing(thats being remembered) would happen in that moment. it takes over perception like getting some mind goose bumps(sometimes even get physical goose bumps). when i get this sort of Si perception in new situation, it feels almost like double perception, the impression of the situation comes so strong that it creates same sort of mental goose bumps and in a way that almost takes over my physical body. its almost as if my soul would come from unconscious and i see the current situation with external perception and this soul like internal perception at the same time and its like time almost slows down or stops. and this lasts under a second, about the time i breath inside, its so strong that its even hard to say if i take slow deep breathing in or just breath normally and it time just seems to slow down for a moment. its stopping and takes over the mind in similar fashion than deja vu, and actually feels quite much the same. i also get this sort of things when im using my Si when i do photography(or look at some of my old photos), but its not as strong, unless it comes from looking at photos and the situation includes something that can be reviewed in more depth than just the picture taking situation.

 

[InvisibleJim]

Erm... but let's say someone has no clue what their type is... how would you go about typing them in this fashion? And wouldn't it be the opposite of the fourth function that would be weakest, not the opposite of the third?

It's too subconscious for the individual to see (as is the anima/animus to begin with). Now the tertiary opposite is a more obvious gap.

 

[Southern Kross]

Interesting point in my case (and perhaps yours), where Si tends to requires some sense of familiarity. I know it's developed, more or less, but put me somewhere new, where I'm expected to rely more on Se, where I don't have a good impression about something, and it's like reinventing the wheel a bit. Tertiary seems undeveloped in that case.

One minor case in point was a couple of days ago when I went to a clinic. It was newly built, kind of state of the art, with a lot of unfamiliar procedures and computer systems on how they directed people around the complex. It was kind of a double hit on both S and T. I wasn't sure how to get around or how any of it had worked (it turned out to be fairly simple in the end though). I even had a problem with simple things, like knowing where I had to stand in line in places. And after I had seen one doctor, she was kind of in a hurry after the appointment and redirected me to another area downstairs to the lab and pharmacy, and I was clueless there too. It gets frustrating. I always hide this kind of stuff, but I feel like a fool inside. I was with an ST who knows this about me, and he could deduce how everything worked quickly, and helped me out. The thing is, if I go back a second time, I'd probably be fine. Same goes with other environments.. Give me time and I'll start being smooth about it, or even creative. But I think it's because of weak Se and Ti. I'm either oblivious of things until after the fact or not improvisational in the same ways. They have a certain willfulness or a better gauge on things sensory wise.

I don't think just showing the example above is that dramatic of a difference, but it can all add up very differently, over a lifetime.

LOL, this sounds familiar. If I have to go somewhere new for an appointment I arrive under the assumption that: a) I have come at entirely the wrong time/day, b) I've parked in the wrong place, c) I'm in the wrong building, d) I will inevitably go to the wrong queue/room/reception/office and will generally look like an idiot. Its not that these things actually happen to me all that often, I'm just so baffled and bewildered, trying to work out what the hell I'm supposed to do, I get over-anxious and paranoid. I always end up feeling like a complete moron.

I never thought of this as a lack of Se and Ti but that makes a lot of sense

 

[amazingdatagirl]

It's too subconscious for the individual to see (as is the anima/animus to begin with). Now the tertiary opposite is a more obvious gap.

The octal Daemon embodies our greatest fears. In my own case, I have started developing phobic response that seems to be related to Fi. This means that (in a strange way) I am becoming more aware of my "opposite inferior".

OTOH, my Se deficiency (trickster 7) is easy to recognize AND a source of endless amusement for my children.

Sometimes when confronted with particularly long-winded INTPs (and the occasional long-winded, Ti-heavy INFJ) ...I am like, please get to the point, thank you? Do I really have to read the 86 paragraphs of precise language you just typed? Why do your emails sound like somone's philosophy dissertation?

Is this a problem? I only want to make sure that you understand my explanation. NOTE: it will take a little while to verify reference material on the remaining 85 paragraphs - will send as email attachment for further clarification.

 

[Totenkindly]

Is this a problem? I only want to make sure that you understand my explanation. NOTE: working on the remaining 85 paragraphs - will send as email attachment for further clarification.

Can you cc it to me? I might have some comments...

 

[Esoteric Wench]

One of the things I've noticed though recently is that I have the power to take INTP convuluted academic speech and turn it into things which will be readable to the general populace. It's not that I don't understand it, it's just that I find it tiring and unnecessary. I swear I've gotten emails from INTPs where I really don't want to even try to read it, though I technically *could*. Same thing on the forum...I've noticed that Ti heavy posts meander around and fail to get to the point.

I guess Ne/Fi meanders around too but in a more feeling way. When it comes to thinking I adore Te. Te is direct, it is concise, it is powerful. I know it can't reach the depths of Ti, but I'd love to tell you again just how much Ti is not my strength. I remember reading this article on functions, asking which thing would you rather do....do external measurements of water, et al or do things like logic puzzles. That's when I very first realized what a problem with Ti I had...and it also helped me to be able to spot INTP writing, specifically, just like that. I'm not saying they're the only ones who do it, obviously other people have Ti, but it manifests in the most academic way there with them and sometimes INFJs.

Marm, I loved what you posted here and identify with it 150%.

And, my Ti totally sucks.... which I'm reminded of on a regular basis by watching my ISTP significant other. Man, does he have some Ti going on.

 

[INTP]

Is this a problem? I only want to make sure that you understand my explanation.

i do this too, and it seems that some people get annoyed from too much info because its hard for them to handle. also what marm said with "get to the point" thing, from INTP(or at least mine), that rambling is getting to the point, its not the point, but its essential if you want the other person wants to fully understand the point when you get there. also if the other person just vaguely understands what im trying to say, he/she might not be able to respond to what i actually say, but just answering to his/hers assumption of what im saying, and that assumption might not be correct, also whether the other person understands my point or not, might not even show, because his/hers assumption is so close to what i say that it will seem like a legit response to what i actually mean, but the respond might be different from if he/she actually understood me. and if it happens that the other person just gets annoyed while listening me getting to the point, he/she will not understand the point im getting to, since annoyed people stop rational judging and thus preventing them to understand anything after they are annoyed.

i guess this thing comes from Si-Ti, because its all so detailed and logical inside and we are trying to express the big picture(Ne), but to us, its the internal details that make the external big picture.